"Move" by Denzil Best, anybody know if the chords...

[Rooster_Ties]

Saw THIS blog post linked to from a Reddit thread, and thought I'd ask here.

Many bebop compositions are based on the chord progressions of standard tunes, such as How High the Moon or I Got Rhythm, but with the melody replaced by something much more intricate than the original tune. I don’t recognize the chords above from anywhere else so it may be an entirely original composition by Denzil Best. I’m sure there’s a jazz buff out there who will correct me if I’m wrong. In any case the jagged melody is archetypal bebop stuff – complex and angular, very difficult to play but intensely exciting to listen to.

I can update the Reddit thread with any conclusions we might come to, and I'll invite the OP of that thread to join us.

EDIT: Pretty interesting blog overall, with a lot of wide-ranging topics. Couple more music related here and here, but well worth exploring beyond those, IMHO.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Rooster_Ties

[Big Beat Steve]

I have a (German) jazz guide here that includes a very lengthy list of jazz standards (including "Move") with sample notations of the first few bars, lists of recording artists, composer and publisher credits etc. for each tune, and it does NOT mention any other (older) standard/Tin Pan Alley or other tune (or its chords) that may have served as the basis for this tune. As the authors/compilers of that book were very thorough in their approach (which may also have been due to the fact that the publishing house had a background in classical music) I am inclined to believe them.

[Free For All]

Both the A sections and bridge are very common chord sequences- they exist in many tunes, although off the top of my head I can't think of a tune that has that exact progression.

I would suggest that the chord in the fourth bar of each "A" section be replaced with a G7(b9). The F diminished chord notated is part of the G7(b9) but I don't believe F is the root. It functions as a dominant to the C minor chord that follows.

[jeffcrom]

Both the A sections and bridge are very common chord sequences- they exist in many tunes, although off the top of my head I can't think of a tune that has that exact progression.

I would suggest that the chord in the fourth bar of each "A" section be replaced with a G7(b9). The F diminished chord notated is part of the G7(b9) but I don't believe F is the root. It functions as a dominant to the C minor chord that follows.

I always think of that fourth bar as B dim 7, which of course consists of the same notes as the F dim 7 given here - but it's funtionally more like the G7(b9) Free suggests.

[Free For All]

Both the A sections and bridge are very common chord sequences- they exist in many tunes, although off the top of my head I can't think of a tune that has that exact progression.

I would suggest that the chord in the fourth bar of each "A" section be replaced with a G7(b9). The F diminished chord notated is part of the G7(b9) but I don't believe F is the root. It functions as a dominant to the C minor chord that follows.

I always think of that fourth bar as B dim 7, which of course consists of the same notes as the F dim 7 given here - but it's funtionally more like the G7(b9) Free suggests.

Yes, B dim 7 is a good choice- it creates that nice chromatic bass line.

I think of those diminished passing chords you see in rhythm changes as subs for dominant flat nine chords.

(first four bars)Bb Bdim Cmin C#dim Dmin G7 Cmin F7

The B dim. functions as a G7(b9) w/o the root. The C# dim. functions as an A7(b9) w/o the root. The main reason is the creation of a nice chromatic bass line.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Free For All

[Rooster_Ties]

The author of the original blog post has quite a few jazz postings (84 in all!), all visible HERE.

Lots of good stuff. (Keep hitting the "older entries" button at the bottom of each page from this search.)

[JSngry]

(first four bars)Bb Bdim Cmin C#dim Dmin G7 Cmin F7

The B dim. functions as a G7(b9) w/o the root. The C# dim. functions as an A7(b9) w/o the root. The main reason is the creation of a nice chromatic bass line.

Agree with all that, but often wonder why the insistence in these circumstances on stating the function of the diminished to be the replacement of a chord whose root is not really necessary or used in that sequence, other than to point out what is being substituted for. In other words, the B dim doesn't really function as a G7(b9), it functions as a chromatic passing chord in its own right. The notion of a "G" is just there because in Rhythm changes, the while I-VI-ii-V thing is so imprinted as the reality. But is that really necessary, or is it just because those root movements create "comfort level" that is more a case of collective over-familiarity than it is a compelling musical reason to still dominate?

Same thing on turnarounds - people always want to look at a iii-biii-ii-bii and see the b-chords as substitues for the VI & the V, and yeah, that's why they work, but...what if, once the theory is understood, we stop looking at them as "substitutions" & instead start looking at them as legit changes in and of themselves, and then extrapolating from there? Maybe the VI & V chords work because of the b-chords, eh? Nobody ever looks at it that way, but if it's a law of physics that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, the why does a D-G-C root movement get propped up as more "natural"? B than a D-Db-C? Because of the overtone series? Well, yeah, but is that the only physics derivable? Hell, the tempered scale tells you right there that there are options...never mind the use of microtones as actual functional pitches and not just as "color". Is a "blue note" really blue, or is the blue just a bruise left over from "Western" pitch systems getting smacked a good one?

I mean, theoretically, you can play Rhythm changes with the a collection of various time-accepted substitutions and never hit the I. So, really, if it's always going to be reachable no matter where you go, why glamorize that m-f by trying to keep it in mind more than it will already be?

Sorry, that's a little "out there" maybe, but...that's just a personal peeve of mine, cats dwelling on glorifying the I under all conditions. Sometimes it's appropriate, but not every damn time, you know what I mean?It's like, if you can the 8 color box and the 64 color box fopr the same price, why settle for the 8? Or if you have to save for a week or two to get the 64, again, why not? And if you really get curious, why not just buy the 64 and then see what happens when you melt them together in different ways?

Options, I'm a big fan of options.

Edited May 23, 2011 by JSngry

[bichos]

I have a (German) jazz guide here that includes a very lengthy list of jazz standards (including "Move") with sample notations of the first few bars, lists of recording artists, composer and publisher credits etc. for each tune, and it does NOT mention any other (older) standard/Tin Pan Alley or other tune (or its chords) that may have served as the basis for this tune. As the authors/compilers of that book were very thorough in their approach (which may also have been due to the fact that the publishing house had a background in classical music) I am inclined to believe them.

reclams jazz führer by carlo bohländer and karl heinz holler?

keep boppin´

marcel

[Big Beat Steve]

Good man! Nailed it ...