Hardbopjazz Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 GA, I have to agree with you. I am a fan of both Rollins and Ornette and have to say that on a first listen, Sonnymoon for Two, their track together, is my least favorite on the CD. Regardless, of what you think of Ornette, and I hesitate to criticize one of the greatest living improvisors, but I find Rollins's solo before Ornette comes out to be wandering and uninspired, with sparse and aimless playing. However, after Ornette solos, Rollins comes back with much better stuff. I also find it odd that they couldn't have inlcuded a track with Jim Hall and Rollins playing together, as opposed to the Jim Hall feature track which is quite fine, but hey didn't they play together that night? Overall, still a really good album with many fine performances. Being at this concert I know why first hand. It took Ornette over 5 minutes to make it out on stage. Everytime you thought the mystery guess was coming out, he didn't. Sonny had to start blowing to keep the audince in the mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 (edited) GA, I have to agree with you. I am a fan of both Rollins and Ornette and have to say that on a first listen, Sonnymoon for Two, their track together, is my least favorite on the CD. Regardless, of what you think of Ornette, and I hesitate to criticize one of the greatest living improvisors, but I find Rollins's solo before Ornette comes out to be wandering and uninspired, with sparse and aimless playing. However, after Ornette solos, Rollins comes back with much better stuff. I also find it odd that they couldn't have inlcuded a track with Jim Hall and Rollins playing together, as opposed to the Jim Hall feature track which is quite fine, but hey didn't they play together that night? Overall, still a really good album with many fine performances. Being at this concert I know why first hand. It took Ornette over 5 minutes to make it out on stage. Everytime you thought the mystery guess was coming out, he didn't. Sonny had to start blowing to keep the audince in the mood. Thanks, from the CD you really can't tell, because he says he has been told "someone is in the house who wants to play with me"... around 5 minutes into the tune. It sounds like he wasn't even aware anyone was going to join him. But I trust you guys who witnessed it!! Edited September 16, 2011 by skeith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 GA, I have to agree with you. I am a fan of both Rollins and Ornette and have to say that on a first listen, Sonnymoon for Two, their track together, is my least favorite on the CD. Regardless, of what you think of Ornette, and I hesitate to criticize one of the greatest living improvisors, but I find Rollins's solo before Ornette comes out to be wandering and uninspired, with sparse and aimless playing. However, after Ornette solos, Rollins comes back with much better stuff. I also find it odd that they couldn't have inlcuded a track with Jim Hall and Rollins playing together, as opposed to the Jim Hall feature track which is quite fine, but hey didn't they play together that night? Overall, still a really good album with many fine performances. Being at this concert I know why first hand. It took Ornette over 5 minutes to make it out on stage. Everytime you thought the mystery guess was coming out, he didn't. Sonny had to start blowing to keep the audince in the mood. Thanks, from the CD you really can't tell, because he says he has been told "someone is in the house who wants to play with me"... around 5 minutes into the tune. It sounds like he wasn't even aware anyone was going to join him. But I trust you guys who witnessed it!! With these 4 guys alive and well, I would to see them go into the studio and put out a recording. It would be pure bliss. There was some arugement that McBride should have been replaced, but who should that bassist be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete C Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 There was some arugement that McBride should have been replaced, but who should that bassist be? Gary Peacock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Henry Grimes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete C Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Henry Grimes.... Maybe the Henry Grimes of old... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 I'd take that risk, maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete C Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 I'd take that risk, maybe... I've seen him several times since his comeback. I wouldn't take the same risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete C Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 I thought of Peacock as a natural for a Rollins-Ornette meeting because he comes out of the same milieu as Haden & LaFaro (i.e., post-Red Mitchell L.A. bass playing), and has worked with a number of Rollins' past sidemen, especially DeJohnette & Bley. He certainly would have been a natural for the Cherry-Bley edition of Sonny's band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 I'd think that a more "bass"-y bassist would be called for, though...not really sure who's around that plays with that sound and would have had the mileage to have hung in that situation...I keep thinking William Parker, but his time might be a little "taut" for that grouping...tough question, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete C Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) I keep thinking William Parker, Oh boy do we disagree on this one, but I generally detest Parker's plodding, self-indulgent, antithesis of swing playing. One of the most painful musical experiences was having to sit through his 20-minute solo when I saw Dave Burrell's trio with him & Cyrille. I know some people love Parker's playing. I just don't get it. Seems to me that he's the polar opposite of what both Ornette and Rollins should have (though when it comes to bass players it appears that Rollins has chosen friendship and loyalty over musical sense). I think Greg Cohen was the most perfect acoustic bass player for Ornette since the '60s. Edited September 18, 2011 by Pete C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Yeah, I hear what you're saying, but I think it all works great in Parker's own orb, but that's why I also qualified it as an uncertain choice for Rollins..."swing" is relative to who and what are being swung, ya' know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 are we discounting Charlie Haden for any reason? gets my vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 are we discounting Charlie Haden for any reason? gets my vote Charlie Haden seems to now fall under the Americana and Tin Pan Alley umbrellas. No longer the rebel he once was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 are we discounting Charlie Haden for any reason? gets my vote Charlie Haden seems to now fall under the Americana and Tin Pan Alley umbrellas. No longer the rebel he once was. I hear what you're saying but he sounded pretty 'rebellious' with the Liberation Music Orch a year or two ago. Sure he'd step up with that suggested frontine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 are we discounting Charlie Haden for any reason? gets my vote Charlie Haden seems to now fall under the Americana and Tin Pan Alley umbrellas. No longer the rebel he once was. I hear what you're saying but he sounded pretty 'rebellious' with the Liberation Music Orch a year or two ago. Sure he'd step up with that suggested frontine. I'm not convinced. I read about a recent club appearance (last couple of years or so) where he was but a shell of his former self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 are we discounting Charlie Haden for any reason? gets my vote Charlie Haden seems to now fall under the Americana and Tin Pan Alley umbrellas. No longer the rebel he once was. I hear what you're saying but he sounded pretty 'rebellious' with the Liberation Music Orch a year or two ago. Sure he'd step up with that suggested frontine. I'm not convinced. I read about a recent club appearance (last couple of years or so) where he was but a shell of his former self. that's a shame. That he's played so long with his hearing impairment is testament to his dedication if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 From what I've heard, I think Petra's ready to carry the Haden torch going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I've seen Haden a couple of times in the last few years and, at least in the company of Ornette or similar musicians who can energize him, his can still bring some of his old edge. I have heard that he was somewhat unhappy with the last LMO's Grammy loss (since said win would have opened up any number of opportunities--maybe just because he's Charlie Haden, though, since I know other Grammy winners for whom the accolade is itself not very useful)... maybe he's just a little tired of/angry at it all? That's all totally speculative, but hustling is hard at any age, let alone when you can (or even should) just be soaking it all up. People get turned off to Charnett pretty often, but he can bring a ton of energy to the proceedings on the right night. (I'm not of the mind, for example, that he's outclassed on Ask the Ages--I think he balances out Elvin's latter-day conciseness and regality very well.) There's also Buster Williams, since he subbed for Haden in some of Ornette's 70's bands. And I think someone like Trevor Dunn or Greg Cohen would be a fantastic choice, assuming you're looking for a mix of jazz classicism and new music edginess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I listened to Road Shows 2 tonight, and thoroughly enjoyed it - perhaps more for what it represents than for the music itself. No masterpieces here, but it made me feel good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete C Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Charnett is great when he's not grandstanding or playing an acoustic bass through a fuzz box. I've liked him when I've seen him with Ornette a couple of times, and he's great on Sonny Simmons' Ancient Ritual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I'd like to see Sonny pushed/challenged some. That might not be what he wants, and he's his own boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 The price has come down to $10.16. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005D1IFNA/ref=pe_53950_21355170_pe_vfe_dt3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.