BFT #92 Discussion

[seeline]

Re. tk 3 - that heavy trombone sound is from NYC and surrounding area. I had a good guess as to who it was as soon as I heard it, but Noj (who is more up on this than I am) beat me to it, and rightly so!

Edited November 7, 2011 by seeline

[BillF]

Re #1: Now that Spontooneous has pointed me in the right direction, I'll move to the West Coast and make a few more directed guesses - Milt Bernhart (tbn), Bob Cooper (tnr), Bob Gordon (bar), Claude Williamson (pno), John Simmons (bs).

[Hot Ptah]

Re #1: Now that Spontooneous has pointed me in the right direction, I'll move to the West Coast and make a few more directed guesses - Milt Bernhart (tbn), Bob Cooper (tnr), Bob Gordon (bar), Claude Williamson (pno), John Simmons (bs).

You are correct on Milt Bernhart-trombone, and Bob Gordon--baritone sax. The other guesses are not correct.

[BillF]

Re #1: Now that Spontooneous has pointed me in the right direction, I'll move to the West Coast and make a few more directed guesses - Milt Bernhart (tbn), Bob Cooper (tnr), Bob Gordon (bar), Claude Williamson (pno), John Simmons (bs).

You are correct on Milt Bernhart-trombone, and Bob Gordon--baritone sax. The other guesses are not correct.

We're gettin' there.

[BillF]

Re #1: Now that Spontooneous has pointed me in the right direction, I'll move to the West Coast and make a few more directed guesses - Milt Bernhart (tbn), Bob Cooper (tnr), Bob Gordon (bar), Claude Williamson (pno), John Simmons (bs).

You are correct on Milt Bernhart-trombone, and Bob Gordon--baritone sax. The other guesses are not correct.

We're gettin' there.

Well, it's "Super-G" from Maynard Ferguson and His Octet Play the Arrangements of Bill Holman. Also in there are Conte Candoli (tpt), Georgie Auld (tnr), Ian Bernard (pno), Red Callendar (bs) and Shelly Manne (dms) and it was recorded in Hollywood April 27, 1955.

It's currently available on this album:

I have had this album for five years and have played it many times. I must be losing my touch!

[Hot Ptah]

Re #1: Now that Spontooneous has pointed me in the right direction, I'll move to the West Coast and make a few more directed guesses - Milt Bernhart (tbn), Bob Cooper (tnr), Bob Gordon (bar), Claude Williamson (pno), John Simmons (bs).

You are correct on Milt Bernhart-trombone, and Bob Gordon--baritone sax. The other guesses are not correct.

We're gettin' there.

Well, it's "Super-G" from Maynard Ferguson and His Octet Play the Arrangements of Bill Holman. Also in there are Conte Candoli (tpt), Georgie Auld (tnr), Ian Bernard (pno), Red Callendar (bs) and Shelly Manne (dms) and it was recorded in Hollywood April 27, 1955.

It's currently available on this album:

I have had this album for five years and have played it many times. I must be losing my touch!

That is all correct. I have it on this CD:

[Spontooneous]

OK, the last half:

9. Is that an oboe I hear in the opening ensemble? The arrangement and the piano solo make me think you've stumbled on a lost Dameron album. Skillful trumpet, awesome chops. Subtle tenor. The tuba doesn't do any harm. Ahh, there's the oboe. We don't hear the tenor and oboe at the same time, so I have to guess this is a Yusef Lateef project. Probably Kiane Zawadi/Bernard McKinney on euphonium. Maybe Roland Hanna on piano -- he did that clumpy style so well. But what a Dameronian chart!

10. I have to guess Dirty Dozen, sometime after they started using a trap drummer. This is fun. Nothing but admiration for the tuba player. Trombone solo is hot. The solo trades during the out chorus are a nice touch. The tune itself is trying to remind me of another tune, maybe a Blue Note boogaloo.

11. "Jive Samba" with harmonica and waka-waka guitar. And the drummer's on brushes throughout. Sure, why not? Wow, where did that soprano player come from? At first I thought this was going to be a joke, but business is taken care of here, and I'm surprised at how un-tacky the whole performance is.

12. That head is naggingly familiar. After the tenor solo gets going, it's clear who the leader is. It's the first cut on this album. Give the bassist some! And the drummer's imperturbability adds considerably to this trio, especially when the leader is overworking some banal phrases, starting a little after the 2-minute mark.

13. Rough recording, but it sure sounds like it was fun to be there. The tenor might be John Gilmore, and the aggressive pianist might be Mr. Ra. After the tenor, the trumpet sounds a lot like Richard Williams (his pet lick is there). As for the violin, well, I didn't see that coming. I wouldn't mind if this went on a few minutes longer.

14 Heated sax dialogue, and the guy in the right channel sounds like Kenny Garrett. The idea of keeping the solos short and changing it up frequently gives the performance more spark. Geri Allen on piano? Ralph Peterson on drums? Hey, no, that's Jack DeJohnette, isn't it? This ought to be in my collection, but I can't find it there.

15 Head sounds like a dance tune from Eastern Europe twisted around. Do I hear a french horn or two in there? Again, the solo routine is not routine. I love the way the drummer keeps things afloat. I like the bowed bass and plunger trumpet interlude. Perhaps the bassist is the leader? No guess on the personnel, but I wish I had this record.

16 At first I was going to guess Sun Ra, but there's no piano, and it sounds more recent. This gets better by the minute. The ensemble changes colors so subtly! Do I hear two basses in there? I'd better get this one too.

This BFT has a lot of things I'll keep listening to. Thank you!

Edited to remove redundancies and remove redundancies.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Spontooneous

[Hot Ptah]

OK, the last half:

9. Is that an oboe I hear in the opening ensemble? The arrangement and the piano solo make me think you've stumbled on a lost Dameron album. Skillful trumpet, awesome chops. Subtle tenor. The tuba doesn't do any harm. Ahh, there's the oboe. We don't hear the tenor and oboe at the same time, so I have to guess this is a Yusef Lateef project. Probably Kiane Zawadi/Bernard McKinney on euphonium. Maybe Roland Hanna on piano -- he did that clumpy style so well. But what a Dameronian chart!

Your guesses are interesting, but not correct.

10. I have to guess Dirty Dozen, sometime after they started using a trap drummer. This is fun. Nothing but admiration for the tuba player. Trombone solo is hot. The solo trades during the out chorus are a nice touch. The tune itself is trying to remind me of another tune, maybe a Blue Note boogaloo.

Not the Dirty Dozen.

11. "Jive Samba" with harmonica and waka-waka guitar. And the drummer's on brushes throughout. Sure, why not? Wow, where did that soprano player come from? At first I thought this was going to be a joke, but business is taken care of here, and I'm surprised at how un-tacky the whole performance is.

It's Jive Samba and it has been identified by seeline. I picked it for the BFT because it is not what the soprano player would usually be involved with.

12. That head is naggingly familiar. After the tenor solo gets going, it's clear who the leader is. It's the first cut on this album. Give the bassist some! And the drummer's imperturbability adds considerably to this trio, especially when the leader is overworking some banal phrases, starting a little after the 2-minute mark.

That's it, you got it. I picked it because of Richard Davis' bass solo. Who solos like that with the bow, but him?

13. Rough recording, but it sure sounds like it was fun to be there. The tenor might be John Gilmore, and the aggressive pianist might be Mr. Ra. After the tenor, the trumpet sounds a lot like Richard Williams (his pet lick is there). As for the violin, well, I didn't see that coming. I wouldn't mind if this went on a few minutes longer.

Yes, it's Sun Ra. But what is the title of the song, and what album is it from?

14 Heated sax dialogue, and the guy in the right channel sounds like Kenny Garrett. The idea of keeping the solos short and changing it up frequently gives the performance more spark. Geri Allen on piano? Ralph Peterson on drums? Hey, no, that's Jack DeJohnette, isn't it? This ought to be in my collection, but I can't find it there.

All guesses are incorrect except Jack DeJohnette. That's Jack on drums.

15 Head sounds like a dance tune from Eastern Europe twisted around. Do I hear a french horn or two in there? Again, the solo routine is not routine. I love the way the drummer keeps things afloat. I like the bowed bass and plunger trumpet interlude. Perhaps the bassist is the leader? No guess on the personnel, but I wish I had this record.

16 At first I was going to guess Sun Ra, but there's no piano, and it sounds more recent. This gets better by the minute. The ensemble changes colors so subtly! Do I hear two basses in there? I'd better get this one too.

This BFT has a lot of things I'll keep listening to. Thank you!

I am glad that you like it!

Edited to remove redundancies and remove redundancies.

[Big Al]

Re #1: Now that Spontooneous has pointed me in the right direction, I'll move to the West Coast and make a few more directed guesses - Milt Bernhart (tbn), Bob Cooper (tnr), Bob Gordon (bar), Claude Williamson (pno), John Simmons (bs).

You are correct on Milt Bernhart-trombone, and Bob Gordon--baritone sax. The other guesses are not correct.

We're gettin' there.

Well, it's "Super-G" from Maynard Ferguson and His Octet Play the Arrangements of Bill Holman. Also in there are Conte Candoli (tpt), Georgie Auld (tnr), Ian Bernard (pno), Red Callendar (bs) and Shelly Manne (dms) and it was recorded in Hollywood April 27, 1955.

It's currently available on this album:

I have had this album for five years and have played it many times. I must be losing my touch!

That is all correct. I have it on this CD:

DRAT!!!! I have this CD!!!

[BillF]

Re #1: Now that Spontooneous has pointed me in the right direction, I'll move to the West Coast and make a few more directed guesses - Milt Bernhart (tbn), Bob Cooper (tnr), Bob Gordon (bar), Claude Williamson (pno), John Simmons (bs).

You are correct on Milt Bernhart-trombone, and Bob Gordon--baritone sax. The other guesses are not correct.

We're gettin' there.

Well, it's "Super-G" from Maynard Ferguson and His Octet Play the Arrangements of Bill Holman. Also in there are Conte Candoli (tpt), Georgie Auld (tnr), Ian Bernard (pno), Red Callendar (bs) and Shelly Manne (dms) and it was recorded in Hollywood April 27, 1955.

It's currently available on this album:

I have had this album for five years and have played it many times. I must be losing my touch!

That is all correct. I have it on this CD:

DRAT!!!! I have this CD!!!

The fact that we both own the album, but didn't recognize it says something about the music, I think. Of the highest quality, but so firmly in the mainstream that it could have been played by a large range of musicians. Even Maynard didn't put his individual stamp on it as he didn't go stratospheric at all by his standards! One consolation: I was thinking it was so good I'd have to go out and buy it. Now I realise I don't have to!

Edited November 9, 2011 by BillF

[Hot Ptah]

Re #1: Now that Spontooneous has pointed me in the right direction, I'll move to the West Coast and make a few more directed guesses - Milt Bernhart (tbn), Bob Cooper (tnr), Bob Gordon (bar), Claude Williamson (pno), John Simmons (bs).

You are correct on Milt Bernhart-trombone, and Bob Gordon--baritone sax. The other guesses are not correct.

We're gettin' there.

Well, it's "Super-G" from Maynard Ferguson and His Octet Play the Arrangements of Bill Holman. Also in there are Conte Candoli (tpt), Georgie Auld (tnr), Ian Bernard (pno), Red Callendar (bs) and Shelly Manne (dms) and it was recorded in Hollywood April 27, 1955.

It's currently available on this album:

I have had this album for five years and have played it many times. I must be losing my touch!

That is all correct. I have it on this CD:

DRAT!!!! I have this CD!!!

The fact that we both own the album, but didn't recognize it says something about the music, I think. Of the highest quality, but so firmly in the mainstream that it could have been played by a large range of musicians. Even Maynard didn't put his individual stamp on it as he didn't go stratospheric at all by his standards! One consolation: I was thinking it was so good I'd have to go out and buy it. Now I realise I don't have to!

I wanted to use it in this BFT precisely because it was not the usual Maynard in the stratosphere thing. It shows a side of Maynard I had not been aware of.

[Big Al]

Re #1: Now that Spontooneous has pointed me in the right direction, I'll move to the West Coast and make a few more directed guesses - Milt Bernhart (tbn), Bob Cooper (tnr), Bob Gordon (bar), Claude Williamson (pno), John Simmons (bs).

You are correct on Milt Bernhart-trombone, and Bob Gordon--baritone sax. The other guesses are not correct.

We're gettin' there.

Well, it's "Super-G" from Maynard Ferguson and His Octet Play the Arrangements of Bill Holman. Also in there are Conte Candoli (tpt), Georgie Auld (tnr), Ian Bernard (pno), Red Callendar (bs) and Shelly Manne (dms) and it was recorded in Hollywood April 27, 1955.

It's currently available on this album:

I have had this album for five years and have played it many times. I must be losing my touch!

That is all correct. I have it on this CD:

DRAT!!!! I have this CD!!!

The fact that we both own the album, but didn't recognize it says something about the music, I think. Of the highest quality, but so firmly in the mainstream that it could have been played by a large range of musicians. Even Maynard didn't put his individual stamp on it as he didn't go stratospheric at all by his standards! One consolation: I was thinking it was so good I'd have to go out and buy it. Now I realise I don't have to!

My thoughts exactly!

[king ubu]

Some spontaneous babblings typed while listening for the first time - without having done any reading above...

#1 - sounds very familiar... reminded me of Woody Herman at moments, the trumpet has dizzy overtones. Very nice baritone, good alto, too... but I think I like the baritone best here! The tune's familiar, too, but hell if I could pin it down.

#2 - hum... smooth production, all too smooth for my taste. Professionally arranged and played, but not quite my cup of tea, I'm afraid. The bass sounds quite good, though. The sax players (assuming the tenor in the intro and the soprano later on aren't the same guy), I'd really need to hear them in a less "produced" setting to give any judgment. Does the second tenor spot sound quite some like Joe Henderson or is that just me? Ah, but then he goes wilder and wilder... nice! But still, as a whole, I'm not sure what to say or think. Ah, gotta love the Nino Rota-tag in the end... dearly love his fantastic "8 1/2" march! Wins me over... guess this here's really good - at least my interest is definitely piqued and I'm looking forward to learning more about this cut!

#3 - Latin far, blaring 'bones, fine rhythms, flowing piano. Sounds authentically Cuban to my lacking ears... the rhythm feel is definitely there in the piano playing - reminds me quite some of the late Don Rubén González! After the piano solo's over, it gets a bit boring to my ears... but it's a nice groove that could just go on and on - and would surely be great to catch live!

#4 - "After You've Gone" - cute, for sure... and swinging! Phrasing sounds heavier than I'd expect from Grappelli, who's name might be the most obvious to drop in this context. Nice guitar and piano, but not quite a favorite, I'm afraid.

#5 - Boogie woogie piano - I'm no good in guessing there, but this is nice! And I guess it's not very old, at least not from the days when Albert Ammons and The Lion and Meade Lux Lewis were around?

#6 - Now we're back in the days... what's the name of this tune again? Do I hear strings, faintly in the background? Artie Shaw? Hmm... nice tenor, tasty trumpet... sounds almost like a JATP session during the solos, probing, bouncing, forward-looking music. Guess none of the soloists will be too big a surprise, but I can't really pin anything down... would love to pin down at least the tune though!

#7 - Starts out like a variation on "Honeysuckle Rose" at the beginning... stomping rhythms, somewhere along the lines where the 52nd street scene crossed over to bop, but not quite yet. Very nice sound on trumpet! Webster-ish tenor at the end, short but sweet.

#8 - The tenor sounds vaguely familiar, but I find it really hard to even pin down the era from which this comes! Wonderful track, sublime, I think! Got to listen to this with more attention... could it be a player that was pretty seasoned when this was taped? Sounds very laid-back and at ease, yet poised, committed! Beautiful!

#9 - Somewhere in between Miles' tuba band, West Coast and third stream - nice to have an oboe in there... and the huffing and puffing tuba. Interesting, to say the least! Not Boyd Raeburn, I think... Thornill or another band from that era, roughly? Great opening on the trumpet solo and great passage 2:00-2:10! That trumpet solo is easily the highlight here! Tuba sounds a bit awkward in its short solo, rhythmically off... nice idea to have that short round of bit between the trombone and the oboe in the end - the later's cool, though nowhere near to the heights Yusef Lateef reached later on.

#10 - Make it funky! Yeah! New Orleans stuff, I guess - love the deep horns, tuba, baritone... very cool! The only of these bands I know a very little bit is the Dirty Dozen Brass band, other than that there's plenty left to explore (ah yeah, once got in touch a bit with a tuba player called Sean Murphy - not from New Orleans, but he had/has his own brass band and he sent me the CD, very cool stuff, too!)

(Reminds me of a previous BFT, quite a while ago, which had a great track by NO brass band... got to dig that up and finally order that disc, can't think of it right now, though... anyone knows what I'm talking about? If so, please help my memory!)

#11 - Funky we stay... darn, another tune I know but can't name. Got to refresh my memory, it seems. What's that instrument heard first on the theme and then taking the first solo? Blues harp? Nice groove, but not a favorite track.

#12 - Change of pace... tenor in a very sparse setting. Bass sounds almost like an electric bass guitar in some spots - not very nicely recorded. But the tenor is cool, takes its time to develop lines and turn out quite a great solo! I like the bouncing groove and the swing coming from deep within the tenor... bet this guy would swing as much if he was playing unaccompanied! Bass solo... well, the sound's really rather ugly, I'm sorry. But I definitely blame the engineer for that and pity the bassist. Nicely understated short drum solo at the end, before the tenor takes it out - cool idea to sort of "manually" fade out.

#13 - Can't be bad if the baritone opens it! Nice mixture of swinging NO sounds and boppish elements. Nice solos... ah, more violin? And there's that struttin' beat beneath it, and the baritone... very nice! Sounds a bit impromptu there... will the piano or the 'bone take a solo now? And finally there's the baritone... cool one, lose and swinging.

#14 - And here's a rhythmically fine-tuned band. Sounds like they know exactly where they're headed. Boppish head, but of recent origin, I'd say... Lovano maybe? Hmm, kind of hard to pin down... alto has a nice tone, could be someone like Kenny Garrett (though I've not heard any of his music for some time). It all sounds very accomplished, but ultimately fails to really grab my attention as it just kind of goes on and on. It feels too... how to say it? As if they're pressing their purpose a bit too hard. I'm kind of missing the fun here, the moment where they let go and loosen up a bit. (I do like the bass, however!)

#15 - Nice groove set up by the bass... and then a tightly arranged ensemble tutti. Catchy! What time signature's this really? Touches of Don Ellis in the second ensemble part, touches of European Renaissance in the first strain... - is that Gianluigi Trovesi with one of his projects (maybe with the WDR big band)? Even though this might be more "purpose driven" and "accomplished" than most other tracks, there's still a looseness to it that I enjoy! And I love how the bass is left alone again and again in between, how it builds in waves.

#16 - A moody closer fits the bill very well now! Vibes, interesting score for brass and saxes on a steady beat. Very lyrical trumpet carrying the line. Like how it builds into a torment of sounds, with layer upon layer, still retaining the mood and the groove at the heart of it.

Many thanks for this interesting selection! As usual I'm useless when it comes to recognizing musicians, but there are several tracks in here where I'd like to hear more!

And now I'm going to read this thread, hoping to find at least a few tune id's for the ones where I miserably failed...

[king ubu]

ah well... honestly thought I could drop the names of Hot Lips and George Adams... but I don't know either of them well enough yet...

got the Ferguson disc, of course, but haven't played it more than once or twice yet - that has to change!

[Big Al]

got the Ferguson disc, of course, but haven't played it more than once or twice yet - that has to change!

Well, that makes three of us who own this disc but couldn't ID a tune from it!

I'm listening to it right now, and I now distinctly remember wanting to put a track from this album on my last BFT, but I could never settle on any one track: I liked them all, but I wasn't familiar enough with any of them to be comfortable putting one on. I mean, it'd be kinda silly for me to not be able to identify tracks on MY OWN BFT!!!

[king ubu]

got the Ferguson disc, of course, but haven't played it more than once or twice yet - that has to change!

Well, that makes three of us who own this disc but couldn't ID a tune from it!

I'm listening to it right now, and I now distinctly remember wanting to put a track from this album on my last BFT, but I could never settle on any one track: I liked them all, but I wasn't familiar enough with any of them to be comfortable putting one on. I mean, it'd be kinda silly for me to not be able to identify tracks on MY OWN BFT!!!

Oh, if you smuggled a track from one of my own BFTs in and didn't tell me, that might just as well happen to me

[Hot Ptah]

Some spontaneous babblings typed while listening for the first time - without having done any reading above...

#1 - sounds very familiar... reminded me of Woody Herman at moments, the trumpet has dizzy overtones. Very nice baritone, good alto, too... but I think I like the baritone best here! The tune's familiar, too, but hell if I could pin it down.

#2 - hum... smooth production, all too smooth for my taste. Professionally arranged and played, but not quite my cup of tea, I'm afraid. The bass sounds quite good, though. The sax players (assuming the tenor in the intro and the soprano later on aren't the same guy), I'd really need to hear them in a less "produced" setting to give any judgment. Does the second tenor spot sound quite some like Joe Henderson or is that just me? Ah, but then he goes wilder and wilder... nice! But still, as a whole, I'm not sure what to say or think. Ah, gotta love the Nino Rota-tag in the end... dearly love his fantastic "8 1/2" march! Wins me over... guess this here's really good - at least my interest is definitely piqued and I'm looking forward to learning more about this cut!

The Nino Rota comment is quite insightful.

#3 - Latin far, blaring 'bones, fine rhythms, flowing piano. Sounds authentically Cuban to my lacking ears... the rhythm feel is definitely there in the piano playing - reminds me quite some of the late Don Rubén González! After the piano solo's over, it gets a bit boring to my ears... but it's a nice groove that could just go on and on - and would surely be great to catch live!

#4 - "After You've Gone" - cute, for sure... and swinging! Phrasing sounds heavier than I'd expect from Grappelli, who's name might be the most obvious to drop in this context. Nice guitar and piano, but not quite a favorite, I'm afraid.

#5 - Boogie woogie piano - I'm no good in guessing there, but this is nice! And I guess it's not very old, at least not from the days when Albert Ammons and The Lion and Meade Lux Lewis were around?

#6 - Now we're back in the days... what's the name of this tune again? Do I hear strings, faintly in the background? Artie Shaw? Hmm... nice tenor, tasty trumpet... sounds almost like a JATP session during the solos, probing, bouncing, forward-looking music. Guess none of the soloists will be too big a surprise, but I can't really pin anything down... would love to pin down at least the tune though!

#7 - Starts out like a variation on "Honeysuckle Rose" at the beginning... stomping rhythms, somewhere along the lines where the 52nd street scene crossed over to bop, but not quite yet. Very nice sound on trumpet! Webster-ish tenor at the end, short but sweet.

#8 - The tenor sounds vaguely familiar, but I find it really hard to even pin down the era from which this comes! Wonderful track, sublime, I think! Got to listen to this with more attention... could it be a player that was pretty seasoned when this was taped? Sounds very laid-back and at ease, yet poised, committed! Beautiful!

#9 - Somewhere in between Miles' tuba band, West Coast and third stream - nice to have an oboe in there... and the huffing and puffing tuba. Interesting, to say the least! Not Boyd Raeburn, I think... Thornill or another band from that era, roughly? Great opening on the trumpet solo and great passage 2:00-2:10! That trumpet solo is easily the highlight here! Tuba sounds a bit awkward in its short solo, rhythmically off... nice idea to have that short round of bit between the trombone and the oboe in the end - the later's cool, though nowhere near to the heights Yusef Lateef reached later on.

#10 - Make it funky! Yeah! New Orleans stuff, I guess - love the deep horns, tuba, baritone... very cool! The only of these bands I know a very little bit is the Dirty Dozen Brass band, other than that there's plenty left to explore (ah yeah, once got in touch a bit with a tuba player called Sean Murphy - not from New Orleans, but he had/has his own brass band and he sent me the CD, very cool stuff, too!)

(Reminds me of a previous BFT, quite a while ago, which had a great track by NO brass band... got to dig that up and finally order that disc, can't think of it right now, though... anyone knows what I'm talking about? If so, please help my memory!)

I think that you are thinking about jeffcrom's last BFT.

#11 - Funky we stay... darn, another tune I know but can't name. Got to refresh my memory, it seems. What's that instrument heard first on the theme and then taking the first solo? Blues harp? Nice groove, but not a favorite track.

#12 - Change of pace... tenor in a very sparse setting. Bass sounds almost like an electric bass guitar in some spots - not very nicely recorded. But the tenor is cool, takes its time to develop lines and turn out quite a great solo! I like the bouncing groove and the swing coming from deep within the tenor... bet this guy would swing as much if he was playing unaccompanied! Bass solo... well, the sound's really rather ugly, I'm sorry. But I definitely blame the engineer for that and pity the bassist. Nicely understated short drum solo at the end, before the tenor takes it out - cool idea to sort of "manually" fade out.

#13 - Can't be bad if the baritone opens it! Nice mixture of swinging NO sounds and boppish elements. Nice solos... ah, more violin? And there's that struttin' beat beneath it, and the baritone... very nice! Sounds a bit impromptu there... will the piano or the 'bone take a solo now? And finally there's the baritone... cool one, lose and swinging.

#14 - And here's a rhythmically fine-tuned band. Sounds like they know exactly where they're headed. Boppish head, but of recent origin, I'd say... Lovano maybe? Hmm, kind of hard to pin down... alto has a nice tone, could be someone like Kenny Garrett (though I've not heard any of his music for some time). It all sounds very accomplished, but ultimately fails to really grab my attention as it just kind of goes on and on. It feels too... how to say it? As if they're pressing their purpose a bit too hard. I'm kind of missing the fun here, the moment where they let go and loosen up a bit. (I do like the bass, however!)

#15 - Nice groove set up by the bass... and then a tightly arranged ensemble tutti. Catchy! What time signature's this really? Touches of Don Ellis in the second ensemble part, touches of European Renaissance in the first strain... - is that Gianluigi Trovesi with one of his projects (maybe with the WDR big band)? Even though this might be more "purpose driven" and "accomplished" than most other tracks, there's still a looseness to it that I enjoy! And I love how the bass is left alone again and again in between, how it builds in waves.

#16 - A moody closer fits the bill very well now! Vibes, interesting score for brass and saxes on a steady beat. Very lyrical trumpet carrying the line. Like how it builds into a torment of sounds, with layer upon layer, still retaining the mood and the groove at the heart of it.

Many thanks for this interesting selection! As usual I'm useless when it comes to recognizing musicians, but there are several tracks in here where I'd like to hear more!

And now I'm going to read this thread, hoping to find at least a few tune id's for the ones where I miserably failed...

Very interesting and often insightful comments, especially with regard to #2.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Hot Ptah

[king ubu]

Would you mind telling it that's indeed Webster on #7?

And yes, jeffcrom sounds right! will look it up!

Edited November 11, 2011 by king ubu

[Hot Ptah]

Would you mind telling it that's indeed Webster on #7?

And yes, jeffcrom sounds right! will look it up!

It is not Ben Webster on #7.

[tkeith]

I've listened three times... okay, that's not really accurate. I listened to tracks 1-6 and 14-16 (because of the numbering when I unzipped the file), then, because I've been sick, fell asleep during the rest. I put the test on a second time with the intention of sleeping and did just that after 3 tunes. Then I listened to the whole test one last time today. No peeking, this what my reactions were.

Track 1 (7:42). Old school and digging it. I'm leaning Shihab, but seems a bit... lighter is the only term I can come up with -- just doesn't seem to have his bite. Wailing all around from the brass. Tenor could be Kamuca. Fat sound. I like this a lot.

Track 2 (8:51). First impressions are Harold Vick. I'm not crazy about the chimes nor the band behind him, but the tenor is fat and strong. Also has that 70s/80s Strata-east/Muse sound to the recording. There's George Adams on tenor. That makes me reconsider. Could be Gil Evans.

** (re-listen) Track 3 (6:33). Another band track. It seems to be more of a harmony of color than a composition.

Track 4. Clues not. I enjoy the violin, but the rhythm section just seems... goofy.

Track 5. In the interest of full disclosure, I have a serious weakness for all things boogie woogie. Don't know who it is, but I can listen to this all day.

Track 6. Predates me (and my general listening) so I have no guesses to offer. I like the tenor a lot (sounds very familiar actually).

Track 7. Honeysuckle Rose? Yummy tenor. This is a weak time period for me to ID. I don't think it's any of the gods, but somebody I need to be more familiar with. Maybe Jacquet? Don't think so, but I dare not pass without a guess.

Track 8 - This reminds me of some Lee Konitz I was listening to lately, but definitely is not him. Harsh recording sound. Odd changes, almost a Tom Waits feel because of the minimal resolution and lack of a defined resolution at the turnaround. Sounds like an older guy (or at least, not one of the younger guys). I say that because the breath is more convincing, as are the double-time runs. However, due to some fumbling transitions, I'm guessing that alto is not his (or her) first instrument. Perhaps a tenor player using the junior horn? I feel like I should know this tune. Something about the piano voicings has me thinking Mal Waldron, but overall, I'm thinking it's not him; lacks those definitive Mal lines.

Track 9 - A little oboe in there. Nice, relaxed swinging feel. That piano solo isn't hitting for me. There is something just... awkward about it. Maybe George Russell? Elements of several guys in the trumpet... can't put my finger on him, though. Dry tenor sound, almost like J.R. Monterose, but not quite as beefy sounding. Well... that tuba certainly limits the options. Given the time period (based on the sound) I'm inclined to guess maybe Ray Draper. No idea on the bone or the oboe. Only oboe player coming to mind is Lateef, but it's most certainly not him. Overall, I like this. I'm intrigued. The ensemble portions are just beautiful.

Track 10 - That's gotta be the Dirty Dozen Brass Band. Never really warmed up to the horn harmonies, but love the grooves. Love that nasty downward trail-off of the tuba leading into the solos.

Track 11 - Gimme some wah! Heh! I could do without the harp. The tune is Jive Samba, unsambafied. I've just never warmed up to the harmonica (let alone an electrified one). I'm not in love with the soprano sound, but I dig the solo. Kind of sloppy and aggressive, like Sam Rivers light.

Track 12 - David Murray. The tune is Santa Barbara and Crenshaw Follies -- first heard that on Home by the octet. Around the mid-80s there was some scuttlebutt that Murray couldn't read his own charts. I'd suggest this cut should put that to rest. It's from this. Never a huge Davis fan, but this record has some nice moments.

Track 13 - Something about the sound on this is very distracting. Seems to be oscillating somewhat, like a failed, after-the-fact attempt at creating a stereo recording. No complaints on the music. Oh, that's Gilmore for sure, so this must be Sonny Blount. Gilmore is so bad-ass. Man, did anybody ever do that crazy, off-beat shuffle to more convincing effect than this band? I think not. Love firing on all cylinders.

Track 14 (8:16). This one just isn't reaching me. There is impressive musicianship, but they're not staying within themselves and, to my ear, they can't quite cut the tempo (hell, who could?!). I'm not hearing a story -- very much what I hear in mainstream Jazz of today. Reminds me a lot of Greg Osby's stuff, but doesn't seem to be as rhythmically tight.

Track 15 (10:24). Love the bass and the rhythm right off the bat, but don't care for the melody line as much. That combination makes me guess Dave Holland. Tenor sounds like one of the newer guys; lots of control throughout the range, to be detraction of emotion (seems like Lovano was one of the first guys to make a career of that). Maybe they just compressed the shit out of the recording, but this sounds like it could be Potter or Gary Thomas. I just want him to let it go a bit. In context, it's not unpleasant, but I'm looking for a little more Frank Wright and a little less practice room. Bass solo doesn't sounds quite as big in the low end as Dave Holland, but I'm digging that bass solo a lot. No idea who the muted trumpet is, but I dig him.

Track 16 (6:35). I'm in. Brassy, growly 'bones and a Latin beat. What more do you need? Piano doesn't do a lot for me; given the context of the genre, I'll guess Hilton Ruiz. Reminiscent of Dick Griffin, but maybe a shade more technical. I'll stick with DG as a guess, though, because of it's raw honesty. Perhaps Bobby Sanabria on percussion? Overall, I'm digging this one quite a bit.

Thanks for the challenging test. Most of it hit me in pleasurable places.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Thom Keith

[Hot Ptah]

I've listened three times... okay, that's not really accurate. I listened to tracks 1-6 and 14-16 (because of the numbering when I unzipped the file), then, because I've been sick, fell asleep during the rest. I put the test on a second time with the intention of sleeping and did just that after 3 tunes. Then I listened to the whole test one last time today. No peeking, this what my reactions were.

Track 1 (7:42). Old school and digging it. I'm leaning Shihab, but seems a bit... lighter is the only term I can come up with -- just doesn't seem to have his bite. Wailing all around from the brass. Tenor could be Kamuca. Fat sound. I like this a lot.

Track 2 (8:51). First impressions are Harold Vick. I'm not crazy about the chimes nor the band behind him, but the tenor is fat and strong. Also has that 70s/80s Strata-east/Muse sound to the recording. There's George Adams on tenor. That makes me reconsider. Could be Gil Evans.

** (re-listen) Track 3 (6:33). Another band track. It seems to be more of a harmony of color than a composition.

Track 4. Clues not. I enjoy the violin, but the rhythm section just seems... goofy.

Track 5. In the interest of full disclosure, I have a serious weakness for all things boogie woogie. Don't know who it is, but I can listen to this all day.

Track 6. Predates me (and my general listening) so I have no guesses to offer. I like the tenor a lot (sounds very familiar actually).

Track 7. Honeysuckle Rose? Yummy tenor. This is a weak time period for me to ID. I don't think it's any of the gods, but somebody I need to be more familiar with. Maybe Jacquet? Don't think so, but I dare not pass without a guess.

Track 8 - This reminds me of some Lee Konitz I was listening to lately, but definitely is not him. Harsh recording sound. Odd changes, almost a Tom Waits feel because of the minimal resolution and lack of a defined resolution at the turnaround. Sounds like an older guy (or at least, not one of the younger guys). I say that because the breath is more convincing, as are the double-time runs. However, due to some fumbling transitions, I'm guessing that alto is not his (or her) first instrument. Perhaps a tenor player using the junior horn? I feel like I should know this tune. Something about the piano voicings has me thinking Mal Waldron, but overall, I'm thinking it's not him; lacks those definitive Mal lines.

Track 9 - A little oboe in there. Nice, relaxed swinging feel. That piano solo isn't hitting for me. There is something just... awkward about it. Maybe George Russell? Elements of several guys in the trumpet... can't put my finger on him, though. Dry tenor sound, almost like J.R. Monterose, but not quite as beefy sounding. Well... that tuba certainly limits the options. Given the time period (based on the sound) I'm inclined to guess maybe Ray Draper. No idea on the bone or the oboe. Only oboe player coming to mind is Lateef, but it's most certainly not him. Overall, I like this. I'm intrigued. The ensemble portions are just beautiful.

Track 10 - That's gotta be the Dirty Dozen Brass Band. Never really warmed up to the horn harmonies, but love the grooves. Love that nasty downward trail-off of the tuba leading into the solos.

Track 11 - Gimme some wah! Heh! I could do without the harp. The tune is Jive Samba, unsambafied. I've just never warmed up to the harmonica (let alone an electrified one). I'm not in love with the soprano sound, but I dig the solo. Kind of sloppy and aggressive, like Sam Rivers light.

Track 12 - David Murray. The tune is Santa Barbara and Crenshaw Follies -- first heard that on Home by the octet. Around the mid-80s there was some scuttlebutt that Murray couldn't read his own charts. I'd suggest this cut should put that to rest. It's from this. Never a huge Davis fan, but this record has some nice moments.

Track 13 - Something about the sound on this is very distracting. Seems to be oscillating somewhat, like a failed, after-the-fact attempt at creating a stereo recording. No complaints on the music. Oh, that's Gilmore for sure, so this must be Sonny Blount. Gilmore is so bad-ass. Man, did anybody ever do that crazy, off-beat shuffle to more convincing effect than this band? I think not. Love firing on all cylinders.

Track 14 (8:16). This one just isn't reaching me. There is impressive musicianship, but they're not staying within themselves and, to my ear, they can't quite cut the tempo (hell, who could?!). I'm not hearing a story -- very much what I hear in mainstream Jazz of today. Reminds me a lot of Greg Osby's stuff, but doesn't seem to be as rhythmically tight.

Track 15 (10:24). Love the bass and the rhythm right off the bat, but don't care for the melody line as much. That combination makes me guess Dave Holland. Tenor sounds like one of the newer guys; lots of control throughout the range, to be detraction of emotion (seems like Lovano was one of the first guys to make a career of that). Maybe they just compressed the shit out of the recording, but this sounds like it could be Potter or Gary Thomas. I just want him to let it go a bit. In context, it's not unpleasant, but I'm looking for a little more Frank Wright and a little less practice room. Bass solo doesn't sounds quite as big in the low end as Dave Holland, but I'm digging that bass solo a lot. No idea who the muted trumpet is, but I dig him.

Track 16 (6:35). I'm in. Brassy, growly 'bones and a Latin beat. What more do you need? Piano doesn't do a lot for me; given the context of the genre, I'll guess Hilton Ruiz. Reminiscent of Dick Griffin, but maybe a shade more technical. I'll stick with DG as a guess, though, because of it's raw honesty. Perhaps Bobby Sanabria on percussion? Overall, I'm digging this one quite a bit.

Thanks for the challenging test. Most of it hit me in pleasurable places.

You identified Track 12 correctly. George Adams is on Track 2. Track 13 is Sun Ra, but which album, and what is the song title? Otherwise your guesses are not correct, but some very interesting comments.

Very interesting thoughts on Track 8.

[NIS]

Hot Ptah,

Thanks very much for the BFT. I've had a chance to listen a couple of times (some tracks more than that). You have covered alot of ground and there is alot of music to like. The tracks that got my attention right off are the last two, so I've listened to them a number of times.

For track 15, the bass solo and duo with trumpet are great for me. Track 16 is the kind of stuff I really like. Good ensemble playing and the vibes player is pretty interesting. As it happens, I've also been listening to a trio album with Rob Mazurek and Jason Adasiewitz and I think I hear some similarities in the playing, particularly the vibes. Could this track be from the Exploding Star Orchestra?

[Hot Ptah]

Hot Ptah,

Thanks very much for the BFT. I've had a chance to listen a couple of times (some tracks more than that). You have covered alot of ground and there is alot of music to like. The tracks that got my attention right off are the last two, so I've listened to them a number of times.

For track 15, the bass solo and duo with trumpet are great for me. Track 16 is the kind of stuff I really like. Good ensemble playing and the vibes player is pretty interesting. As it happens, I've also been listening to a trio album with Rob Mazurek and Jason Adasiewitz and I think I hear some similarities in the playing, particularly the vibes. Could this track be from the Exploding Star Orchestra?

It could, indeed.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Hot Ptah

[mikeweil]

BFT 92 spinning ...

# 1 - reminds on the Manny Albam sessions from the mid-1950's ... all are competent soloists, but I find it hard to recognize anybody.

# 2 - opens with a slightly flat tenor player. The writing that follows is very nice, but the overall intonation of the ensemble is awful - sorry, but after playing with oriental musicians in different tunings and listening to much baroque music in historical tunings, my ears are kind of over-sensitive to music that is simply out of tune, which is partly the case hear. I can't understand why the tenor soloist starts screaming, either. To me he and the sloppy intonation spoil the nice arrangement.

# 3 - Eddie Palmieri's La Perfecta? That brass section of four trombones was a trademark. The pianist could indeed be Palmieri. Excellent rhythm section that must have played together for a while. Who was that band's trombone soloist? Barry Rogers? Manny Oquendo on timbales? I never heard him play a solo on more than the usual two-pair timbale set, this here has him use four drums. Very earthy, hard-hitting drum solo style. I'd like to have that album ...

# 4 - Violin in a rather sweet style. He's a little inaccurate, rhythmically, but that's very hard to do when bowing. Well he tries to swing hard ... but this is not my cup of tea.

# 5 - Boogie woogie time! Nice stuff! I Like the way the drummer plays here, he's really with the piano player. Who is this?

# 6 - Full-fledged swing big band with strings. Don't know who had strings in the band at that time ... a live recording with a very receptive audience. Nice. Yeah.

# 7 - Sounds like a tune based on Honeysuckle Rose ... no idea again. I guess this includes some familiar names.

# 8 - Strange tenor sound, strange intonation, to me he sounds like he's completely off the changes, even though the pianist gives him the most basic chordal accompaniment there is ... I don't know what to think of this. Sounds rather amateurish to me.

Second half to come ...

[jeffcrom]

Here goes. As usual, I haven't looked at this thread yet. I recognized a few tracks, but they've likely been identified by now.

1. Some west coast guys, I guess. The soloists are all good, but only the alto player made me say “wow.” I probably should know who it is, but I don’t immediately recognize him. Good stuff, although the track didn’t totally blow me away.

2. I recognized Covington, Georgia’s own George Adams from the first note, and recognized the recording a minute later. It’s a medley of Nino Rota tunes from Amacord Nino Rota, the first of those Hal Willner concept albums. Before I remembered who the second saxophonist was, I was thinking how good he sounded – I’ll have to go back and revisit some Branford Marsalis, because that’s who it is. Brother Wynton is on trumpet, and Kenny Barron and Ron Carter are in the rhythm section. I’m not going to go look it up right now, but I think the drummer is Wilby Fletcher, who used to play with Tyner. William Fischer did the arrangement. It’s a strange recording – the trumpet sounds like he’s in the next room, which, given Wynton’s reputation around here, would be just fine with some folks. This has never been my favorite track from this album, but I love George Adams, and he sounds good here, as does Branford.

3. I was thinking that I wasn’t getting into this track as much as I should, then the insane piano solo came along. Who is that? It’s crazy. The timbale soloist is pretty hot, too.

4. Sounds like Stuff Smith to me, but you’re probably throwing us some kind of K.C. curveball like Claude Williams or somebody. Well, I’ll make Stuff my official guess. I like his raw sound, whoever it is. The guitarist is good rather than great, and the pianist a step or two above that – he’s pretty good. But it’s mostly about the violin - that’s some swinging fiddle playing.

5. I’m guessing that this pianist is at least a step or two removed from the roots of the boogie woogie style. This judgment may come back to bite me in the ass, but there’s a “cuteness” to this playing, an ironic touch, that grates on my nerves. This is the only track in your BFT which I only listened to once – I couldn’t make it through a second time. And I hope I haven’t embarrassed myself here.

6. This is more like it. It sounds like a live recording by Artie Shaw’s band, playing “There’ll Be Some Changes” made. Shaw was a hell of a clarinetist, and I love the sound of his sax section. Is that George Auld on tenor? The trumpeter sounds like Hot Lips Page – great playing there. I’ll even go out on a limb and guess young Buddy Rich as the drummer. I enjoyed this.

7. Nice swing-to-bop version of “Honeysuckle Rose,” whatever they call it. Good solos by most, with a piano solo that’s more interesting than the others. The trumpet player seemed kind of tentative. I could make some guesses, but they would be just that – guesses, so I won’t bother. Enjoyed hearing this.

8. Dude, this is a pretty bold move – including a fellow O Board member in your blindfold test. The last time this happened, I offended the musician involved with a joke which didn’t quite work. In any case, this is wonderful. It’s Allen Lowe and Matt Shipp, of course, playing “In Da Sunset of Your Love” from Blues and the Empirical Truth. Allen’s playing is so expressive and vocalized, and Shipp comes off like an otherworldly Billy Strayhorn. This is a great track from a great album.

9. I like it. Interesting writing and good solos all around. I’ll guess Bob Cooper on oboe and John Graas on French horn, but I really don’t know who anybody is.

10. “Clean Up” by the New Orleans Nightcrawlers, from the Slither Slice album. The Nightcrawlers are a little more carefully arranged than most New Orleans brass bands. I occasionally find myself wishing that they were a little sloppier, but they’re still very exciting, especially live. I saw them a few years ago at d.b.a. on Frenchmen Street – it was pretty funny; the first set was by an eight-piece band, but more and more folks started showing up and getting out their horns, so by the end of the night there was at least 15 musicians on stage. Great stuff, and another reminder that Matt Perrine is the greatest tuba player on the planet.

11. This took a couple of listens for me to get into it; at first I just thought it was odd, but it really grew on me. Nice, expressive harmonica playing. I generally don’t like that kind of soprano sax sound, but the saxist is playing some interesting stuff. Nice.

12. David Murray, playing “Santa Barbara and Crenshaw Follies,” but I don’t know what album this is from. This is good – back in the day I always found Murray to be an interesting player, although as time went on, I became less impressed, and haven’t really kept up with his more recent music. He swings hard and builds a nice solo here. Now if he would only use a different fingering for high E – whatever he’s using is flat, and it’s driving me crazy! Don’t know who the bassist and drummer are.

13. What the hell is this? You don’t hear this kind of sloppy big band very often – Sun Ra’s band, Brotherhood of Breath, and David Murray’s band all had this kind of casual, unblended attack sometimes, but I don’t think it’s any of those – although the tenor soloist sounds kind of like a young John Gilmore. No ideas, but I got a kick out of this, especially the violin solo.

14. “Summit” by Rudresh Mahanthappa & Bunky Green, from the Apex album. I love Mahanthappa’s collaborations with Green and with Indian saxophonist Kadri Gopalnath. This is a wonderful track. I love the way it changes mood when Jason Moran comes in for his piano solo. And of course, the saxophone playing is excellent. Rudresh’s style is not what I want to hear all the time, but it’s very exciting to sample sometimes. Again, great track.

15. I don’t know this recording, but it sounds like it could be one of Dave Holland’s larger ensembles. In any case, it’s attractive, but kind of static – it mostly stays on the same plane. I like it, but would have liked to hear it build more.

16. Is that Steve Coleman on alto? I haven’t kept up with his work since the early 1990’s so I don’t know if this is the kind of thing he’s writing these days or not. Whoever it is, it’s really good. This is music with layers – it’s not “obvious” music. Wonderful last track of an interesting and challenging BFT.