BFT 95 Discussion

[tkeith]

Finally getting around to this. No peeking, here's my thoughts on disc 1.

Track 1 - Not sure how I feel about this. I want to like it, but in sections it sounds almost multi-tracked (because it's so stiff); it just doesn't seem to grab on any place till the 12/8 section just shy of the 3-minute mark. 3:44, he (she?) is on to something else. So it's St. Thomas. The voicings are reminiscent of Abdullah Ibrahim, but it's not him. Could be somebody else from South Africa. Alto sounds like Arthur Blythe, but more hell bent on licks. Maybe Dudu (though I don't think of him as a lick guy)? If it's not Arthur, it's likely he studied with him. Beefy tenor sound. I don't think it's Chico. It doesn't seem raw enough to be the South African guys. This guy has studied his Rollins, but it's definitely not Newk. Outside guess -- is this maybe one of Cecil Brooks' projects?

Track 2 - Gah! Mingus tune but can't think of the name... Reincarnation of a Lovebird? No, Self-Portrait in Three Colors. There's George Adams. I assume this is either one of the recordings of Mingus' big band after he stopped playing or it's one of Gil Evan's projects.

Track 3 - Autumn in New York. Shades of Jug and/or Ike Quebec, but it's neither. Fat MF sound. A definite influence on Ricky Ford. I want to know this guy, but I have the sneaking suspicion I don't. I'm not going to blame my allergies messing with my ears (though, that IS happening). I need to know who this is.

Track 4 - Robbin's Nest. Something is making me lean Fatha Hines on piano -- those triplets. Sounds like Arnett Cobb on tenor. Decidedly older vibrato on the trumpet; I'm going to go with a hair-brained guess and say Benny Carter on trumpet. Don't know the bone. This many musicians of that period makes me think this one of the Norman Granz dates on Pablo. Don't know the muted trumpets. If I'm right about the other guesses, Al Grey might be a good guess on 'bone, but it didn't sound like Al to me.

Track 5 - Sounds like Flora Purim on vocals. Sounds like George Coleman on tenor, which makes me think maybe Slide Hampton on trombone. With George and the genre, I'd have to guess that Hilton Ruiz is in there somewhere. I don't love the arrangement, but I'm a sucker for Latin, so I'm in.

Track 6 - Stardust a la... sure as hell sounds like Parker on the intro, but it's not. So I'm going to say Sonny Stitt. I'm feeling more confident about that the longer this goes.

Track 7 - Every Time We Say Goodbye. *Not* Coltrane. The lines sound like George Coleman to me, though I'm not overly familiar with his work on soprano. I'm pretty sure that's what this is, though. The circular breathing is another notch in favor of that guess. Could be Harold Mabern on piano, but this has more of a tendency to get cute... Hilton Ruiz? The open chords sure sound like Mabern. Sounds like a keyboard (as opposed to an acoustic piano).

Track 8 - She sounds like Ruth Brown, but there is no confidence in that statement. Don't know on the alto. Raspy like one of the big tenor voices, but can't place any alto players with that much growl.

Track 9 -Damn... can't come up with the title, but I've *played* this damned song. Shades of both Rouse and Pharoah. I'm going to say Chico Freeman. I definitely know this guy. Don't recognize the pianist; I think I'd have an easier time saying who he isn't than who he is. No idea on the bass. I rescind my earlier guess. Junior Cook on tenor.

[tkeith]

And disc 2.

Track 10 - Initial impression of the tenor is that the sound is Billy Pierce. Sadly, that's not going to narrow it down because most of the Berklee guys have that sound, now. Too pretty on the approach to be Billy. I like the tune, but I'm not hearing anything particularly original in the tone of the saxophonist, just that "recordable" sound. (Props to Derek Kwong for coining the usage of the term "recordable" in this context.) Reminds me of a Donny McCaslin tune.

Track 11 - Have You Met Miss Jones. That tone sounds too strong to be someone who only seconds on the instrument. It sounds too modern to be Bob Wilbur, but that's where the arrangement had me leaning. Also sounds like a straight soprano to me. Could that be Shihab?

Track 12 - Not a genre/period that's a strong point for me. I'll guess one of the later Woody Herman bands, just seems to have that feel. I hate to double guesses, but sounds like Slide Hampton on trombone to me. That's Dexter on tenor, so there goes the Woody Herman guess. I guess it could be a Slide Hampton band, too. Trumpet is somewhere between Woody Shaw and Oscar Brashear, but it's neither. Jack Walrath? This has to be a Slide Hampton band because that tune sounds almost exactly like Slide's NEW WORLD, recorded by Art Blakey with Billy Harper in 1968.

Track 13 - A Child Is Born/Oleo. Tyner shakes hands with Bud Powell, but I'm not sure about the context.

Track 14 - No clue, but I assume the vocalist is primarily a pianist.

Track 15 - Laura/Cherokee. Quite the bop chops. The sound makes it difficult, but it could be Barry Harris. Definitely someone of that period, because the music sounds like it matters to him. I know that tends to rub people when I say that, but while many of the modern players can play it all inside and out, they don't play it with conviction. At least that's how I hear it.

Track 16 - These Foolish Things. What happened there? Did we switch to an electric keyboard, or are there two pianists? Tea For Two. Excepting the very flashy flourishes at the end of These Foolish Things, this sure does sounds like Fatha Hines again. There's that strange vibrating sound again, almost like a synth overlaid with a grand piano. I saw Bruce Hornsby do that and damned near opened a vein on the spot. Everything Happens to Me, They Say It's Wonderful, there was another one in there before Everything that I missed. This dude is sick. Could be Phineas, but I'm staying with Fatha Hines. No, no I'm not. Hines wouldn't get so cute with the classical stuff. I have no clue who this is. Aki Takese? Somebody with crazy chops, that's for sure, but about 8 minutes in s/he is suffering from James Carter syndrome (look what I can do!).

Track 17 - Willow Weep For Me. No idea.

Track 18 - In a Sentimental Mood. I want to say Hank Jones, but I'm positive I'm wrong.

I enjoyed this test a great deal. Lots of excellent stuff I was not familiar with, and even the stuff I was less in tune with was very good. Strong effort!

[Michael Weiss]

#18: Hank Jones without a doubt.

[Hardbopjazz]

And disc 2.

Track 10 - Initial impression of the tenor is that the sound is Billy Pierce. Sadly, that's not going to narrow it down because most of the Berklee guys have that sound, now. Too pretty on the approach to be Billy. I like the tune, but I'm not hearing anything particularly original in the tone of the saxophonist, just that "recordable" sound. (Props to Derek Kwong for coining the usage of the term "recordable" in this context.) Reminds me of a Donny McCaslin tune. Michael Weiss guess this. Rich Perry on tenor, and Jeff guess the pianst Renee Rosnes.

Track 11 - Have You Met Miss Jones. That tone sounds too strong to be someone who only seconds on the instrument. It sounds too modern to be Bob Wilbur, but that's where the arrangement had me leaning. Also sounds like a straight soprano to me. Could that be Shihab? Michel Weiss got this one. It is Luk Thompson

Track 12 - Not a genre/period that's a strong point for me. I'll guess one of the later Woody Herman bands, just seems to have that feel. I hate to double guesses, but sounds like Slide Hampton on trombone to me. That's Dexter on tenor, so there goes the Woody Herman guess. I guess it could be a Slide Hampton band, too. Trumpet is somewhere between Woody Shaw and Oscar Brashear, but it's neither. Jack Walrath? This has to be a Slide Hampton band because that tune sounds almost exactly like Slide's NEW WORLD, recorded by Art Blakey with Billy Harper in 1968. This was figured out by Michael Weiss. Dexter, Slide and Idress Sulieman are the solists.

Track 13 - A Child Is Born/Oleo. Tyner shakes hands with Bud Powell, but I'm not sure about the context. I like that description.

Track 14 - No clue, but I assume the vocalist is primarily a pianist. yes he is primarily a pianist. Could be why it hasn't been figured out yet.

Track 15 - Laura/Cherokee. Quite the bop chops. The sound makes it difficult, but it could be Barry Harris. Definitely someone of that period, because the music sounds like it matters to him. I know that tends to rub people when I say that, but while many of the modern players can play it all inside and out, they don't play it with conviction. At least that's how I hear it. Not Barry Harris

Track 16 - These Foolish Things. What happened there? Did we switch to an electric keyboard, or are there two pianists? Tea For Two. Excepting the very flashy flourishes at the end of These Foolish Things, this sure does sounds like Fatha Hines again. There's that strange vibrating sound again, almost like a synth overlaid with a grand piano. I saw Bruce Hornsby do that and damned near opened a vein on the spot. Everything Happens to Me, They Say It's Wonderful, there was another one in there before Everything that I missed. This dude is sick. Could be Phineas, but I'm staying with Fatha Hines. No, no I'm not. Hines wouldn't get so cute with the classical stuff. I have no clue who this is. Aki Takese? Somebody with crazy chops, that's for sure, but about 8 minutes in s/he is suffering from James Carter syndrome (look what I can do!). The dude is a woman. Spontooneous got this one. It ia Dorothy Donegan.

Track 17 - Willow Weep For Me. No idea. Hint, he is on piano on another track.

Track 18 - In a Sentimental Mood. I want to say Hank Jones, but I'm positive I'm wrong. Yes this is Hank Jones.

I enjoyed this test a great deal. Lots of excellent stuff I was not familiar with, and even the stuff I was less in tune with was very good. Strong effort!

Glad you liked it.

[Big Al]

Man, I wish I could identify or even come up with a guess! I started jotting down some thoughts, but it became pretty apparent that there's only so many ways I can say "Wow! This is FANTASTIC! I am LOVING this! I don't know who this is, but I can't wait to find out!" Really, this is easily THE most enjoyable, listenable, and FUN BFT to come down the pike in a very long time! So, my answer to everything (except track 8, which is neither bad nor something I would skip over on future listenings (and there will be MANY of those), but nothing I'd actively pursue, either; and track 9, which isn't so much bad as much as it just ain't happening and everyone sounds bored by it all), is the aforementioned quote.

But I have to give extra special kudos & heap big praise on the first track for being 14 minutes long and not ONCE losing my interest or deteriorating into the kind of free-blowing screaming that usually accompanies big band tracks of this length. THAT is one helluvan accomplishment! So, off I go to read everyone else's guesses in hopes that a lot of this stuff has been ID'd!

Musical educations should always be this life-affirming! Great job, HBJ!

[Hardbopjazz]

Man, I wish I could identify or even come up with a guess! I started jotting down some thoughts, but it became pretty apparent that there's only so many ways I can say "Wow! This is FANTASTIC! I am LOVING this! I don't know who this is, but I can't wait to find out!" Really, this is easily THE most enjoyable, listenable, and FUN BFT to come down the pike in a very long time! So, my answer to everything (except track 8, which is neither bad nor something I would skip over on future listenings (and there will be MANY of those), but nothing I'd actively pursue, either; and track 9, which isn't so much bad as much as it just ain't happening and everyone sounds bored by it all), is the aforementioned quote.

But I have to give extra special kudos & heap big praise on the first track for being 14 minutes long and not ONCE losing my interest or deteriorating into the kind of free-blowing screaming that usually accompanies big band tracks of this length. THAT is one helluvan accomplishment! So, off I go to read everyone else's guesses in hopes that a lot of this stuff has been ID'd!

Musical educations should always be this life-affirming! Great job, HBJ!

Thanks, I am glad you enjoyed the music. None of the music has ever been commercially released. I felt like doing a blind fold test of music that exists that no one would have heard. In fact I could offer the complete sets from each track if someone wants.

As for track 8, I feel akin to this one for some reason.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Hardbopjazz

[Mark Stryker]

I'm new to this game, having never participated before, but was talking to Michael Weiss this afternoon who said I should give a listen. I downloaded part one and have been sending him responses. At his urging I'm posting my comments. I haven't peaked at previous posts but I'm about to since No. 3 is bugging the shit out of me since I know I know it. Anyway, here's what I've got:

Alto player in No. 1 sounds like Arthur Blythe. The whole thing has almost more of a South African sound than a traditional calypso feel, so not sure who the rhythm section is. Tenor a mystery too. Something about the piano suggests Don Pullen – ooh, he just did a glissando, so pretty sure that’s who it is.

No. 2 is obviously a Mingus song – “Self Portrait in Three Colors”? George Adams in the tenor soloist – what a unique sound and personality. Always liked his sense of wild abandon. Not disciplined but very expressive. Don’t know the band. Assume it’s a Mingus Dynasty kind of record.

No. 3. Everything about "Autumn in NY" in familiar, from the tenor to the chart but it’s on the tip of my tongue. I’ll get it eventually. Stand by.

Meanwhile, No. 4: “Robin’s Nest” – Like that swing-to-bop kind of feel in the band, generation straddlers abound. Tenor sounds like a southwestern guy – Buddy Tate, Illinois Jacquet or Arnett Cobb – probably Tate ‘cause it’s not quite as heavy as Cobb and its more tasteful and less vibrato than Jacquet. Buck Clayton on trumpet – wow, can really hear the Louis Armstrong in there; interesting. Not sure of the other guys. Process of elimination suggests Charles Thompson but that’s educated guess; I don’t really know his playing.

No. 5: No clue on the singer. Skipping for now.

No. 6: Sonny Stitt! Never heard this. Playing some of the same stuff on this “Star Dust” as on another record I have. Horrible live recording. Sounds like a concert hall with big echo, though the fired up crowd suggests a club. Maybe the tape machine was in another room. Wow, Stitt could SING a melody on alto, and he does that Bird thing where all the double-time ornaments are around the melody rather than replacing the melody, so anybody could follow this, even the unhip -- jazz could use more of that attitude: do your hip shit but play for the people too. Rhythm section is plodding a bit, but that may be because the piano sucked and whoever is playing it is pounding the hell out of it to get a sound. Lot of Stitt’s diminished shit in the coda. Interesting that the crowd reacts with applause after just a few notes of the intro – everybody knew “Star Dust.” A song of the people. Would you get that kind of reaction today? Doubt it.

No. 7. "Every Time We Say Goodbye." A lick player on soprano. Not sure who it is yet. Kind of a pinched sound and pitch is a little funny Wondering if this is a tenor player doubling …hmmn, just played some repeated George Coleman-like arpeggios. Is this a trick? I like the way the piano is coating the saxophone with flowing curtains. Reminds me of how McCoy plays for sure, so two guys that come to mind are John Hicks or Harold Mabern. There’s something soulful there for sure. Kind of homegrown.

No. 9. "When Sonny Gets Blue." Wow. Tenor playing those long notes with absolutely NO vibrato and that gives the whole thing a very blunt, dark sound. I like the little melodies in the tenor improvisation, but the sound is quirky and that's getting to me a bit -- and for me that's saying something since I'm Jackie McLean's No. 1 fan. Who could this be? Junior Cook possibly. Maybe Charles Davis. Maybe Frank Foster. I'll go with Junior but it's not quite as slippery as he sometimes plays. Piano starts out cool but now he's kinda vague with his lines and time and a little clumsy. Um, maybe it's late in the night and he's had a few. Maybe they've all had a few. Mickey Tucker? Bass plays a nice little solo. Double time in last bridge could be Louis Hayes splashing away back there.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Mark Stryker

[Hardbopjazz]

I'm new to this game, having never participated before, but was talking to Michael Weiss this afternoon who said I should give a listen. I downloaded part one and have been sending him responses. At his urging I'm posting my comments. I haven't peaked at previous posts but I'm about to since No. 3 is bugging the shit out of me since I know I know it. Anyway, here's what I've got:

Alto player in No. 1 sounds like Arthur Blythe. The whole thing has almost more of a South African sound than a traditional calypso feel, so not sure who the rhythm section is. Tenor a mystery too. Something about the piano suggests Don Pullen – ooh, he just did a glissando, so pretty sure that’s who it is. color="#FF0000"]This was figured out. It is the groups Roots. Arthur Blythe- as, Sam Rivers- ts, Chico Freeman- ts, Nathan Davis- ts, ss, Don Pullen- p, Santi Debriano- b, Tommy Campbell- d

No. 2 is obviously a Mingus song – “Self Portrait in Three Colors”? George Adams in the tenor soloist – what a unique sound and personality. Always liked his sense of wild abandon. Not disciplined but very expressive. Don’t know the band. Assume it’s a Mingus Dynasty kind of record. Me too, I always liked George Adams. Any idea who is on trumpet or piano? Although neither have much soloing, but are well known.

No. 3. Everything about "Autumn in NY" in familiar, from the tenor to the chart but it’s on the tip of my tongue. I’ll get it eventually. Stand by.This one someone should know. I find it hard that it hasn't been guessed yet.

Meanwhile, No. 4: “Robin’s Nest” – Like that swing-to-bop kind of feel in the band, generation straddlers abound. Tenor sounds like a southwestern guy – Buddy Tate, Illinois Jacquet or Arnett Cobb – probably Tate ‘cause it’s not quite as heavy as Cobb and its more tasteful and less vibrato than Jacquet. Buck Clayton on trumpet – wow, can really hear the Louis Armstrong in there; interesting. Not sure of the other guys. Process of elimination suggests Charles Thompson but that’s educated guess; I don’t really know his playing. Buck Clayton- tp, Emmett Berry- tp, Dickie Wells- tb, Earl Warren- as, Buddy Tate- ts, Sir Charles Thompson- p, Gene Ramey- b, Oliver Jackson-d,/

No. 5: No clue on the singer. Skipping for now. I just someone's post from the other day. Yes it is Coleman and Slide. I don't think the vocalist will be guessed

No. 6: Sonny Stitt! Never heard this. Playing some of the same stuff on this “Star Dust” as on another record I have. Horrible live recording. Sounds like a concert hall with big echo, though the fired up crowd suggests a club. Maybe the tape machine was in another room. Wow, Stitt could SING a melody on alto, and he does that Bird thing where all the double-time ornaments are around the melody rather than replacing the melody, so anybody could follow this, even the unhip -- jazz could use more of that attitude: do your hip shit but play for the people too. Rhythm section is plodding a bit, but that may be because the piano sucked and whoever is playing it is pounding the hell out of it to get a sound. Lot of Stitt’s diminished shit in the coda. Interesting that the crowd reacts with applause after just a few notes of the intro – everybody knew “Star Dust.” A song of the people. Would you get that kind of reaction today? Doubt it. I think the Japanese people appreciate jazz more than most cultures and that is why the big applause.

No. 7. "Every Time We Say Goodbye." A lick player on soprano. Not sure who it is yet. Kind of a pinched sound and pitch is a little funny Wondering if this is a tenor player doubling …hmmn, just played some repeated George Coleman-like arpeggios. Is this a trick? I like the way the piano is coating the saxophone with flowing curtains. Reminds me of how McCoy plays for sure, so two guys that come to mind are John Hicks or Harold Mabern. There’s something soulful there for sure. Kind of homegrown. Michael Weiss guessed this one. It is Colman and Mabern. I really enjoy this entire recording. It was so hard to pick one to be a part of my BFT.

No. 9. "When Sonny Gets Blue." Wow. Tenor playing those long notes with absolutely NO vibrato and that gives the whole thing a very blunt, dark sound. I like the little melodies in the tenor improvisation, but the sound is quirky and that's getting to me a bit -- and for me that's saying something since I'm Jackie McLean's No. 1 fan. Who could this be? Junior Cook possibly. Maybe Charles Davis. Maybe Frank Foster. I'll go with Junior but it's not quite as slippery as he sometimes plays. Piano starts out cool but now he's kinda vague with his lines and time and a little clumsy. Um, maybe it's late in the night and he's had a few. Maybe they've all had a few. Mickey Tucker? Bass plays a nice little solo. Double time in last bridge could be Louis Hayes splashing away back there. Also correctly guessed by Michael Weiss. Is Junior Cook. So Far no one has figured out the piano player.

Track 5 - Sounds like Flora Purim on vocals. Sounds like George Coleman on tenor, which makes me think maybe Slide Hampton on trombone. With George and the genre, I'd have to guess that Hilton Ruiz is in there somewhere. I don't love the arrangement, but I'm a sucker for Latin, so I'm in. You are correct that it is George Coleman and Slide Hampton. The singer I don't think anyone will get.

[Mark Stryker]

Going from memory now since the download is on another computer and the last I listened was hours ago.

No. 2 -- I recall the trumpeter playing some slippery cum sloppy stuff and had a bit of a growl -- George's partner with Mingus, Jack Walrath?

No. 9 -- pianist is bebop rooted but sounds like a 1960s/70s guy not a '50s guy. could be Ronnie Matthews, but he usually sounds better than this. Again, maybe it was late and he'd had a taste.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Mark Stryker

[Hardbopjazz]

Going from memory now since the download is on another computer and the last I listened was hours ago.

No. 2 -- I recall the trumpeter playing some slippery cum sloppy stuff and had a bit of a growl -- George's partner with Mingus, Jack Walrath? Good guess since he played with Mingus, but it's not him.

No. 9 -- pianist is bebop rooted but sounds like a 1960s/70s guy not a '50s guy. could be Ronnie Matthews, but he usually sounds better than this. Again, maybe it was late and he'd had a taste. No it's not Matthews.