Brandon Burke Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 (edited) I realize that this thing has come up several times as a topic of discussion but I just finished burning off the LP for a buddy of mine and........damn it's good. Wow. Edited February 4, 2004 by Brandon Burke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 ANYTHING by Mary Lou Williams is worth hearing, but you're right this one is a damned fine and I need to dig it out and spin it again. I believe you can order this on cdr from Smithsonian Folkways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 ANYTHING by Mary Lou Williams is worth hearing, but you're right this one is a damned fine and I need to dig it out and spin it again. I believe you can order this on cdr from Smithsonian Folkways. Yes, you can. I got it about a year and a half ago--it's one of their "on-demand" titles, I believe, and you'll also get a copy of the liner notes. Grant Green and Budd Johnson appear on a couple of tracks as well. As sacred jazz it predates Ellington's concert by a couple of years (though I don't want to venture into saying that it's the first example of it--there's some debate about that, and you could probably argue that "Come Sunday" set aside by itself is the first example). Great stuff, esp. for Mary Lou fans; hopefully some more of her scattered 1950s and 60s material will make its way onto CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted February 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 I forgot that the Smithsonian did that. So, I'm curious about the liners because there realy are no "original" liner notes. The ones on the LP are aren't terribly informative and there is no mention of personnel whatsoever. (By the way, Percy Heath is on it as well.) This begs the question, does Smithsomian/Folkways produce altogether new liner notes for (as yet) unreleased titles, just in case they get issued? I don't get it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted February 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Y'know, thinking more about this.....I'm surprised that the Smithsonian hasn't reissued it formally. Beats the hell out of Zoning, which you see everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 I'll beg to differ. I love them both. I wouldn't be without Zoning, and Zoning is a straight date without spiritual trappings and voices. . . an easier item to keep in print! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 Looks as if the Smithsonian is re-issuing it formally: BlackChrist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Goren. Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 ANYTHING by Mary Lou Williams is worth hearing. I absolutely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooter Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 ANYTHING by Mary Lou Williams is worth hearing. I absolutely agree. I have never heard "Black Christ of the Andes" and don't have a lot by Mary Lou. But the little I do have includes "Free Spirits" which is a firm favourite. Buster Williams really shows his mettle and Mary Lou is in fine form. A feast! Did she make any other albums like this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 Unlike Brandon, I feel that "Zoning" is an important work and can recommend it. I also recommend highly the HighNote cd "Live at the Keyston Korner" and "At Rick's Cafe Americain" which are both nice trio recordings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted April 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 I would add Live at the Cookery to this list as well as the rather obvious, but as yet unmentioned, Zodiac Suite. Fans of Herbie Nichols should especially check out Zodiac Suite. One shouldn't expect a mirror image or anything but he was very clearly infuenced--among other emotions--by Mary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 (edited) Yeah, those are great. . . I didn't mention them because they aren't really to me like the trio albums I did mention, and it was a trio album he was wowed by and wanted something like it. . . . Nichols "clearly influenced" by Mary Lou? Hmmmm. . . not necessarily something I'd say. The opposite . . . that might seem more possible to me! Edited April 18, 2004 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted April 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 (edited) I don't know man...... I realize that some folks have a hard time with Linda Dahl's biography on Mary Lou but it goes into some detail regarding she and Herbie's relationship. Assuming the book is accurate, it appears as though he had something of a crush on Mary. She, however, viewed herself as more of a mother/big sister figure than a potential lover. Also, Zodiac first came out in 1945, when Herbie was still in short-pants. (I can't believe I just used that phrase.) I guess I'm thinking of moments like when the rhythm kicks in on "Taurus" or pretty much the entirety of "Gemini". In any case, perhaps not "very clearly" influenced but he spent an awful lot of time at her place going over his ideas with her. And her particular kind of right hand dissonnances can be heard in Herbie's work as well, though he tends to off-set them with his heavy low-end crashes; something she wasn't necessarily doing. I hear what you're saying, Lon, and I'm certain that you've logged more hours listening to both Mary Lou and Herbie than I. Still, I think a can can be made. Already has...... Edited April 18, 2004 by Brandon Burke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 Still, I think a can can be made. Already has...... I too believe a can can be made and already has. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted April 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 (edited) Still, I think a can can be made. Already has...... I too believe a can can be made and already has. B) For the last time...... Aluminum can technology is not only entirely possible, it is already in use. Thanks for backing me up there, Chuck. [EDIT: Now you know why all of my posts have been edited. I'm an awful typist.] Edited April 19, 2004 by Brandon Burke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD45 Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 If I am not mistaken, this release contains one of my favorite recorded musical performances EVER; that being "It Ain't Neccessarily So." I have the Giants of Jazz compilation and this cut is on there. I can't wait to hear the whole record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 (edited) Herbie was not in short pants in 1945! I've read the book too, hey, I don't hear it the same way you may, that's fine. I've been listening to both of those players for some time. I just don't hear an influence of MLW in HN. There's lots of places both players could have gotten similar pianistic habits. Edited April 19, 2004 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted April 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 (edited) If I am not mistaken, this release contains one of my favorite recorded musical performances EVER; that being "It Ain't Neccessarily So." Yes and YES! Edited April 19, 2004 by Brandon Burke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted April 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Herbie was not in short pants in 1945! I've read the book too, hey, I don't hear it the same way you may, that's fine. I've been listening to both of those players for some time. I just don't hear an influence of MLW in HN. There's lots of places both players could have gotten similar pianistic habits. You're right, of course. He wouldn't have been in short pants but as soon as I typed that phrase I started to chuckle so I just left it in. In the words of Virginia Woolf: "Mistakes were made...." He would have been either 25 or 26 when Zodiac came out in 1945 but, as discussed earlier, he was probably familiar with at least a few of those tunes beforehand. Herbie's first issued recording date that I know of is a couple of tunes on the Savoy comp, I Just Love Jazz Piano from 1952. Why am I bringing all of this up? Not sure. In any case, I hear you, Lon. I just think it's fun to talk about these kinds of things. That's all. Cheers, Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 I'm just very careful indeed to assign "influences" to anyone any longer. Nothing ever seems that easy to me. I personally believe that it is likely that most of Herbie's musical identity was forged quite a ways prior to "Zodiac Suite." There are other reasons why he didn't record before that Chocolate Williams date. . . . Anyway, I guess a lot of deep thinking about the nature of musicians influencing others (or should I say artists influencing others) I've done in the past few years (helped a lot by thinkers on this board and its predecessor) has taken the "fun" out of it for me and made it serious business. Enough about this from me! I'm so glad that another Mary Lou Williams has been slated for release! Here's hoping for more still (yes, I'm greedy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 This has been reissued already? I thought it wasn't coming out thill the end of April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 I've had this on vinyl for some time myself, I believe you have the date right, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Finally have the new cd of this. Additional tracks are all trio tracks, with Percy Heath on bass and Tim Kennedy on drums. The sound is okay. . . not a great improvement over the lp itself. . . it may even be an lp transfer that has been cleaned thoroughly. Great music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted May 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 The sound is okay. . . not a great improvement over the lp itself. . . it may even be an lp transfer that has been cleaned thoroughly. I've always found the LP--the Mary/Folkways pressing, anyways--to be pretty muddy in the first place. Strangely, and I may disagree with my self on this tomorrow, I think that "It Ain't Necessarily So" somehow benefits from that style of production. The reverb and muddy sound quality seem to distance the song from the listener, like a ghost that's about to disappear. No matter how loud I play the song on my stereo I still feel like it's fading away. Beautiful.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Actually I think you'll like the cleaner version on the cd, you can really hear the resonating piano at the beginning of the track, and it's adding to the beauty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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