NYC5 LP Consequences recorded in NY or Copenhagen?

[romualdo]

I'm trying to determine whether this was recorded stateside or in Denmark

The session was recorded on August 23, 1963 (the NYA4 minus Cherry LP, "Rufus" was also recorded on the same date)

Some sources say it was NYC (recent Book that came with the NYA4 5LP set) mention that it was a demo session recorded just before leaving for Europe

The Cherry Mosaic booklet has the Fontana LP as being recorded in Europe

Sources (Gullin/Shepp Storyville liner notes) also mention that they reached Europe in early September

Lord has Copenhagen & jazzDiscog has NYC

Anyone with access to a decent Shepp or Cherry sessionography - the online Cherry one does not commit http://cd-v.net/jazz/cover/cherry/fontana-681013.html

After weighing up the evidence, New York sounds more likely to me

[Chuck Nessa]

I have a 1969 publication by Erik Raben called "A Discography of Free Jazz". It lists sessions by Ayler, Cherry, Coleman, Sanders, Shepp and Taylor. It says New York.

[Head Man]

My BRUYNINCKX discography says Copenhagen.

[brownie]

Had the original release of this session (on Sonet) until I sold my vinyl collection more than a year ago, there was no mystery about the recording location on its front cover

[clifford_thornton]

The Sonets and the Fontana record are entirely different.

From the back cover of the Fontana:

Recorded in New York City on August 23, 1963 except "Trio" recorded in Copenhagen, Denmark on October 12, 1963.

So both Copenhagen and NYC are correct and it was cobbled together from two sessions.

[Head Man]

The Sonets and the Fontana record are entirely different.

From the back cover of the Fontana:

Recorded in New York City on August 23, 1963 except "Trio" recorded in Copenhagen, Denmark on October 12, 1963.

So both Copenhagen and NYC are correct and it was cobbled together from two sessions.

If I could understand Japanese, then the notes with my CD re-issue might say the same......

[romualdo]

found more info online - an excellent John Tchicai Discography by Raben

he lists Consequences (not Trio) as being part of the later session (Oct 12 - with the 2 other takes/versions of Trio) in Copenhagen

Different to what Clifford says is on the back cover of the LP - are those details on the back of an "original" Dutch/UK pressing or a later reissue (Japanese)

NEW YORK CONTEMPORARY FIVE:

Don Cherry(cnt), John Tchicai(as), Archie Shepp(ts), Don Moore(b), J.C. Moses(dr), Bill Dixon(arr).

NYC. Prob. August 23, 1963 (see note)

Rufus Fontana(Eu)681.013ZL

Crepuscule With Nellie –

Trio –

Sound Barrier (Cisum) –

Wo Wo (Hoppin’) –

Note: The above titles are generally listed as recorded at the same session as the ”Rufus” LP (Fontana(Eu)681.014ZL) – i.e. August 23,

1963. According to Tchicai Don Cherry was late for the session – therefore the five titles on the ”Rufus” LP w ere recorded without

Cherry; when Cherry arrived the above titles (for the ”Consequences” LP) were recorded. The two records however have different

sound characteristics – suggesting different sessions.

Same. Copenhagen. October 12, 1963

Consequences Fontana(Eu)681.013ZL

Trio (take 1) unissued(see note)

Trio (take 2) –

All titles on 681.013ZL also on Fontana(Eu)881.013ZY, (J)SFON7077, 195J25, PHCE1001 (CD).

Fontana(Eu)681.013ZL: ” New York Contemporary Five – Consequences” .

Note: “Trio” (take 1) was used for the film ” Future One” – directed and produced by Niels Holt – issued on Marshmallow(J)

MMEX-DVD101 (DVD) (”Jazz In Denmark ”).

Same. Live. ”Radiohuset”, Copenhagen. October 27, 1963

Emotions Free Factory 069(CD)

Monk’s Mood –

Consequenses –

Edited March 12, 2014 by romualdo

[Chuck Nessa]

This information is mostly the same as printed in the Raben book I mentioned (from 1969) but he added the following timings for the October 12, 1963 session:

Consequences (7:34)

Trio take 1 (8:34)

Trio take 2 (6:44)

[clifford_thornton]

All I had access to was my LP copy; good to know something more definitive was out there. Alternate takes!

[romualdo]

thanks all for you're valued input as usual