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BFT 133 Disc 2 - Tracks 11-21

Dan Gould

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Thanks, Dan, might have had more less-favorable reactions on this part than the first, but hen again, it's getting, late, I'm getting old, and we're all out of whiskey. STILL fun!

Saul Good as they say ... I may add a few comments later when I'm home and can consult my cheat-sheet. Some of your thoughts get me confused on just which track you're referencing. :g

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This is the Ludwig LP I've got, from which 'Moanin'' comes.


It was reissued on Time (another Bob Shad label) under the title 'The hot organ'


The Mainstream is the original.


How foolish I was to have doubted your knowledge when it comes to this area ... :blush:

Pretty sure that the Time label came first, then Mainstream. Time had all that avant-garde classical stuff like Gazzelloni & Cathy Berberian, plus the two Kenny Dorham albums, Max Roach, Sonny Clark, Stanley Turrentine, some Marian McPartland/etc. Then came Mainstream, which morphed into the 70s with a whole new look and sound. Mainstream reissued some, but by no means all of the Time catalog. I've been looking for some of the classical stuff lately and finding it on both Time & Mainstream, but that jazz stuff...only on Time that I've found to this point...Time & Bainbridge, much later.

Funny thing about this one is that I bought the Mainstream LP off Da' Bastids a year or so ago and still haven't listened to it yet. Who knew?

Mainstream had 2 spurts of life - in the sixties it seems to have gone moribund (ie making rock records including one by Big Brother & the Holding Company in 1967) and was revived in the seventies with those white sleeves with the photo in an imperfect square.

Here's a link to the Both Sides Now Mainstream discography which focuses on the release dates of albums, not the dates they were recorded. You'll see 'Organ out loud' came out in 1964.


Here's a link to the Time page on BSN


That lists 'Hot organ' as 1966.


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I've found errors on BSN before (and reported them as per their request, and last time I looked, there they still were, many years later), and this is the first time I've heard of Mainstream material being reissued on Time, but who knows, the record business is crazy, or was, when there was one.

"Moribund" is not exactly correct, though. They remained operational and did release product straight through, although the focus was away from jazz pretty much altogether, as remained the case for the first releases with that Unipack design, which, also remember, did not go to the white covers for a little bit.

The Time cover of the Ludwig does not at all look like earlier Time covers, so I can believe that it was a reissue of a Mainstream release, but still...not sure why that happened. But it did. Maybe they were marketing it to the Dick Hyman market or some such.

That Big Brother and the Holding Company album on Mainstream contIns the studio versions of Janice Joplin's vocal numbers "Down on Me" and "Bye Bye Baby." I imagine that it was their best selling album by a wide margin.

And let's not forget that Ted Nugent & The Amboy Dukes were also on Mainstream. If only we had known then what we know now!

I bought a copy of the Big Brother album in the early 70s, waiting for it to go crazymad "collectable", and by 1982 or so, it hadn't so I ditched it.

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Round Two (It!)

TRACK FOUR - That's the damndest thing I ever heard, Red Holloway doing a spot-on Eddie Harris cop, or the other way around! Or somebody who's a damn good mimic with enough sense of the real life history of the music's peoples to not fuck this up, which would really, REALLY piss me off, so....Branford? But - as soon as it becomes apparent that it is a mimic-er...thin ice not too heavily skated. That trumpet player, now, he/she IS starting to piss me off, not too far from Al Hirt, and Al Hirt, yeah, great player, beautiful cat yeahyeahyeah, but so NOT needed getting all up in THIS. It seems the longer it goes, the more pissed I'm getting...that piano player...the time on this bag calls for a very specific space inside the beat, and whoever it is is playing like they think they know where it is rather than actually being able to go there, much less living there. Or maybe these new PC speaker aren't broken in yet? It seems to be getting better as it goes along, but maybe I'm just succumbing...and what's up with that tambourine player...jeesus, if this is really what it feels like today, that real time is THIS rigid, even for a freakin' TAMBORING player, then...not sure I'm down with all of that. Second time through, even the tenor player is pissing me off...wish I still drank! What do you get when you cross Listen Here with Cold Duck Time, Listen Here, You Limp Duck Motherfucker? That I would drink!

I wanted to say I am always interested in musician's takes on younger players recreating a vibe from an older time. This track has been quite popular with those who have participated. And, aside from the Eddie Harris thing, Thom seemed to like it a good deal. But Jim picked it apart every which way. Not often I program a track that sends a man back to drinking. Or nearly does.

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I never left "drinking", I just left drinking, if you know what I mean. Alcohol (and other drugs) is not always good for you, but the state of mind it produces...that's a whole 'nother thing! :g

But let's get down to BFTisitcs here - is that a Tony Williams cut on #5?

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Hi Dan,
In the nick of time, my thoughts on your second disc. Again, lots of "Mmh" present.
Not much answers though. :blush:

01. reminds me a bit of “Moanin’ “, but that’s not the song. Nice!
02. This is “Moanin’ “ (Ha) – composer Bobby Timmons (lyrics by Jon Hendricks, not used in this case, since it is instrumental of course) A bit too fast in my opinion, at least for the theme it self, it doesn’t do it justice this way. Maybe just not my thing.
03. “Well you needn’t” – composer Thelonious Monk. A really funky rendition. Let’s dance!!
04. reminds me of something; something with “all your trouble” in the lyrics, not sure. Nice that the bass starts and ends by itself. I like that touch. With my first combo we did a Tom Waits song that way. I really like the Latin touch. I’m really curious about what this one is and where it reminds me of. You can’t keep still here, or at least, I can
05. Beautiful ensemble work! I love this one.
06. This one is lovely too. Beautiful piece! Subtle piano fill.
07. Ah, nice touch to put this one in. I can learn a lot from this musician just by hearing him speak. I love the way he explains thing. Nice man to talk to!
08. Th
e pianist from no. 07. I presume. I have no clue. I hope he's still with us? I'd love to meet him.
09. Theme sounds familiair. Nice.
10. Groovy! It feels like I tune I would sing, but I don’t recall any lyrics for it. If there aren’t any, I’ll look into making some.

11. Yeah! I’ve loved your blues, Dan. It feels ‘so good’! Thanks for his “double pleasure” BFT! Some mighty good musicians I look up to. Sorry for all the "impulsive shouts". :blush: The blues has always been close to my heart since it is so full of emotion.
Kind regards, page

Edited by page
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10 is Smack Dab in the Middle. Here are lyrics I found for a Ray Charles rendition (he wasn't the first to record it):

Pick me a town
In any clime
Where people like
A rockin time
And stay awake
Both day and night
Till everybody's feelin good an' right
Then throw me
(Smack dab in the middle)
I wanna be
(Smack dab in the middle)
Ahhhhh, smack dab in the middle, boys now
So I can rock and roll to satisfy my soul
Ten Cadillacs
A diamond mill
Ten suits of clothes
To dress to kill
A ten room house
Some Bar B Q
And fifty chicks not over twenty-two
Then throw me
(Smack dab in the middle)
Oh, I wanna be
(Smack dab in the middle)
Ahhhhh, now boys you can see why I wanna be smack dab in the middle now
So I can rock and roll to satisfy my soul
One hundred beds
With chorus girls
A street that's paved
With natural pearls
A wagon load
Of bonds and stocks
Then open up the door at Fort Knox
Then throw me
(Smack dab in the middle)
I wanna be
(Smack dab in the middle)
Ahhhhh, now listen boys throw me smack dab in the middle right now
So Ray can rock and roll to satisfy his soul
That's all right!

Thanks for getting your thoughts in before the "deadline" Page. Glad you liked disc 2 just as much!

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