Larry Kart Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Picked up a used LP of this one from 1957 today and am tickled so far. Nice rhythm section (Pete Jolly, Red Mitchell, Stan Levy) backing a medium-sized big band on some tracks and six horns on the rest. In addition to the leader, Herb Geller (in exceptional form), Bill Holman (Rollins-esque; sounds like he was still playing a good deal at the time), and Pepper Adams (one senses the other players are digging him) are frequent soloists, as is Frank Rosolino, Jolly is lively, Mitchell gets several solo spots and is not yet into his latter-day swoony bag. Despite the seemingly gimmicky Rogers/Rogers premise, Shorty's charts are not cute but committed/intense, with Maynard Ferguson notably present in the section on the big band tracks, which are a bit different in style from the Rogers big-band work of a few years earlier -- less Kentonian, no massed trumpets for their own sake. Overall the feeling is of guys just enjoying themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 That's a nice album which I've had on an RCA CD for several years. Time to give it another spin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Yes, time to wear this one out some more (it's one of those I mistakenly bought twice - picked up a mint Fresh Sound facsimile reissue some years ago, knowing I had not bought that reissue before but not remembering I already had a U.K. original (very clean vinyl, though somewhat scruffy cover). 16 hours ago, Larry Kart said: Overall the feeling is of guys just enjoying themselves. Actually IMO this is just just what very, very many West Coast sessions and records are all about -. no angry young men posing, no messianic zeal, no stubborn searching for unplayed tones ending up with "far out" sounds, no inner anguish screaming inside yourself that comes out screeching through your horn, no personal demons (well, most of the time ) riding on your back and clouding your senses ... Though it may be cliché-laden, picturing yourself lazing on some sunny day at the beach or by the seaside (or out in an easy chair in your back garden with some cool drink by your side, in fact ) helps quite a bit in enjoying the music for what it is and not projecting more into it than you need to if you just want to take in some easy swing in a relaxed mood ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Actually, I noticed on this one a certain East Coast-related stiffening of the laid back West Coast spine -- thanks to Pepper Adams' razor's edge articulation and tone (does he sound good here), Holman's rather Rollins-esque muscularity, and Geller's relative heat. Rosolino, of course, always was as boppish as heck. And in the rhythm section Jolly certainly was not unaware of Horace Silver, while Levy never lost his 52nd St. affinities. There is, however, at least one Jimmy Giuffre sub-tone clarinet solo, a good one, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I really like the four big band tracks - such a big sound and those unmistakable Shorty Rogers voicings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, Larry Kart said: Actually, I noticed on this one a certain East Coast-related stiffening of the laid back West Coast spine -- thanks to Pepper Adams' razor's edge articulation and tone (does he sound good here), Holman's rather Rollins-esque muscularity, and Geller's relative heat. Rosolino, of course, always was as boppish as heck. And in the rhythm section Jolly certainly was not unaware of Horace Silver, while Levy never lost his 52nd St. affinities. There is, however, at least one Jimmy Giuffre sub-tone clarinet solo, a good one, too. Maybe it's just that there were more facets to WCJ than some would think at first sight (or hearing) and some attempts at pigeonholing what makes the music "west-coastish" really fall short of the target? Because there were enough WCJ artists and records that were very much part of the West Coast scene and still were not that far removed from souds also heard elsewhere. Particularly when looking at Eastern schools like that of Al Cohn, or what about Gerry Mulligan who was lumnped in with WCJ but hated it and distanced himself vehemently. Arguments along the lines of "If it comes from the West and I don't like it because it's too arranged or too airy or too "effeminate" for my TASTE then it's West Coast Jazz and if it comes from the West and I like it because it is more "muscular" or more "blowing music" then it is an Eastern sound gone West by accident" don't hold that much water IMO. Maybe time to play some "Blues From Neither Coast" too? Edited November 22, 2015 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Let's not talk too much about "West Coast". Shorty Rogers was born in Massachusetts, came up through the Woody Herman Orchestra and had a profound admiration for Basie and Harry Edison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 1 hour ago, BillF said: Let's not talk too much about "West Coast". Shorty Rogers was born in Massachusetts, came up through the Woody Herman Orchestra and had a profound admiration for Basie and Harry Edison. West Coast, in the realm of music we're talking about, doesn't necessarily refer to where one was born or reared but to where and how one's music took shape. Further, as far as Rogers and a good many other key West Coast figures were concerned (Rogers being inspired by Sweets goes without saying), what might be called a polite reduction of the '30s Basie band was a frequent hallmark of the style, especially in terms of rhythm, as was (though much less common) a screaming expansion of the '30s Basie mode on albums like Rogers' "Shorty Courts the Count." What typically was left out of the musical picture in what is commonly regarded as West Coast jazz (the style again, not literal geography) was bop. I say this BTW as someone who enjoys a lot of West Coast jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Reading this thread encourages me to go to the shelf to locate that CD and place it on the pile of things waiting to be played. This is one of the features I like best about Organissimo. Now on to finding the Rogers plays Rodgers album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Agreed. Such reminders often are inspiring. I played "Rogers plays Rodgers" as well as the album with "Blues from Neither Coast" and then (on a whim, for added input but also because it was next door on the shelf ;)) Tony Aless' "Long Island Suite" yesterday evening and regardless of which session emanated from which coast did get quite some continuity out of it (aside from all the listening fun, of course ). As for the "West Coast Jazz" angle, praise for Shorty Rogers rings an alarm bell sometimes - knowing how often he gets blamed for his alleged westcoastish heavyhandedness (often open to dispute IMHO). Edited November 23, 2015 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 O.K. - I'll bite, bought a copy of Rogers Plays Rodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Listened to side 2 last night, no less enjoyable; the big-band charts were not casually assembled by Rogers but have a near-storytelling coherence. Personnel listing on the jacket and online is somewhat random: Giuffre isn't mentioned but is there soloing on clarinet (one track) and baritone (several), though most of the bari solos are Pepper Adams', quite a contrast. Maynard isn't mentioned either but is there. Rosolino takes most of the trombone solos, but I'm pretty sure that Milt Bernhart gets a few. To say, as I did, that Holman is Rollins-esque here may be an exaggeration, but he's headed in that direction. Didn't detect any Jack Montrose solos (he's in the section); that might have been interesting. As someone who doesn't care at all for latter-day five-string Red Mitchell, I have to say that his section and solo work here is excellent. I'm not a Herb Geller completist and resented his snotty putdown of Art Pepper's playing of the time, but he seems to me to be at his best here. BTW, if you run across an LP copy, as I did, you'll probably have to crank up the volume level a good bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) My UK original (RD-27018, black label) plays at quite a full and enjoyable level at "room volume" in my not so large music room without upsetting my better half next door in the living room. Edited November 23, 2015 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 1 hour ago, Larry Kart said: Listened to side 2 last night, no less enjoyable; the big-band charts were not casually assembled by Rogers but have a near-storytelling coherence. Personnel listing on the jacket and online is somewhat random: Giuffre isn't mentioned but is there soloing on clarinet (one track) and baritone (several), though most of the bari solos are Pepper Adams', quite a contrast. Maynard isn't mentioned either but is there. Rosolino takes most of the trombone solos, but I'm pretty sure that Milt Bernhart gets a few. To say, as I did, that Holman is Rollins-esque here may be an exaggeration, but he's headed in that direction. Didn't detect any Jack Montrose solos (he's in the section); that might have been interesting. As someone who doesn't care at all for latter-day five-string Red Mitchell, I have to say that his section and solo work here is excellent. I'm not a Herb Geller completist and resented his snotty putdown of Art Pepper's playing of the time, but he seems to me to be at his best here. BTW, if you run across an LP copy, as I did, you'll probably have to crank up the volume level a good bit. Larry, unfamiliar with the Herb Geller putdown of Art Pepper? Can you provide details? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 1 hour ago, Peter Friedman said: Larry, unfamiliar with the Herb Geller putdown of Art Pepper? Can you provide details? Some of it comes through here, it seems: http://www.jazzwax.com/2010/04/interview-herb-geller-part-4.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 13 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said: Some of it comes through here, it seems: http://www.jazzwax.com/2010/04/interview-herb-geller-part-4.html Yeah -- I can see the "impossible person" part, but "Art never had that much talent"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 1960 Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 8 hours ago, jlhoots said: O.K. - I'll bite, bought a copy of Rogers Plays Rodgers. Same here. You guys suck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmonahan Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 This one, at least, I already had! Tracking down all of Shorty's RCA albums can be something of an adventure. But as a Rosolino completist (talk about a lifetime task), I had to have it. gregmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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