Jim Dye Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 A follow up question - and playing devil's advocate: What's the difference between buying a used CD and obtaining a copy (CD-R)? As neither option puts money in the artist's pocket, why even bother buying used? Let's all just burn copies for one another. A used CD was once new. (unless you have a promo or cut-out, and thats a whole 'nother argument) When it was first purchased, it did put money into the artists pocket. With a CD-R, the artist is never paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 A follow up question - and playing devil's advocate: What's the difference between buying a used CD and obtaining a copy (CD-R)? As neither option puts money in the artist's pocket, why even bother buying used? Let's all just burn copies for one another. That just doesn't make sense. Sorry, but there is no similarity whatsoever between buying used and burning copies. Buying used removes a legitimate copy of the CD from the marketplace, burning a copy does not. As I said in my previously, if the original buyer feels that the recording just didn't click, I see no reason for them not to recoup some of their losses, and let the next person give it a shot. This is hardly the same thing as keeping the disc, and stealing copies for friends. Not to be insulting, but this comparison is just plain silly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 If you buy used, the money goes into the pocket of the seller and not the artist. If you receive a burn, no money goes into the artist's pocket. In this regard, how do these transactions differ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
street singer Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 If you buy used, the money goes into the pocket of the seller and not the artist. If you receive a burn, no money goes into the artist's pocket. In this regard, how do these transactions differ? When you make a CD-R copy, you're in essence putting another copy of the album into circulation - a copy that the artist receives no compensation for. Whereas with buying used, you're not introducing another copy of the album into the market. The existing copy, for which the artist has already been compensated for, is simply exchanging hands. Therein, to me, lies the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 If you buy used, the money goes into the pocket of the seller and not the artist. If you receive a burn, no money goes into the artist's pocket. In this regard, how do these transactions differ? If you buy a new CD, only a small part of the money goes into the pocket of the artist. It could even be that the artist has been paid a lump sum for the performance, and he gets nothing from the CD sales. I'm speaking of the jazz market, not the pop charts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 To ethically complicate things further - by the way, good question Tony - one could make the arguement that by burning copies (say for friends) and turning said friend onto a certain artist whom they would otherwise not spend their money on (or even be aware of), one is opening up the artist to a wider audience who might then go and actually buy their albums in the future or (more importantly?) pay to see them perform live. Screw my mangled syntax, but you get the point. I state the above from personal experience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 I try to buy new whenever possible but some times for whatever reasons it isn't possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch head Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Maybe it's because I worked in a used record store for 5 years, but I don't undertand the "immaculate collection" mentality. You're afraid of someone else touching your CD's and LP's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Well, I've certainly learned not to loan CDs, if that's what you mean! I must admit, I prefer CDs that look their best. No scuffs or scratches, no damage to the inserts. I could care less about the jewel box; I'll replace that if I have to. I dunno; probably something to do with toilet training or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I'm not just saying this because of our host and other board members, but... I buy used whenever I can, except new releases which I must have (and are frequently marked down or can be preordered). Except... When I can buy a CD directly from an artist; or when I can buy an independent release directly from the label. Then, I will do so, and am picky about not buying such things used. But... If an artist refers me to Amazon or Tower, I will look for the CD used. Unless... The artist refers me to an independent seller (CD Baby, for example), in which case I will buy from the independent seller! WHEW! Super-conditional, but it works for me! i could not have said this any better! B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 For me, I prefer new. There's just something about having a cd that no one has used before, especially if it's someone whose music I admire. LPs, the vast majority are used, for obvious reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I'm not just saying this because of our host and other board members, but... I buy used whenever I can, except new releases which I must have (and are frequently marked down or can be preordered). Except... When I can buy a CD directly from an artist; or when I can buy an independent release directly from the label. Then, I will do so, and am picky about not buying such things used. But... If an artist refers me to Amazon or Tower, I will look for the CD used. Unless... The artist refers me to an independent seller (CD Baby, for example), in which case I will buy from the independent seller! WHEW! Super-conditional, but it works for me! i could not have said this any better! B-) I don't think I could have said it at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 I'm also curious about clubs like BMG ... do the artists get full royalties on CDs sold through these kind of outlets? I don't think anyone has addressed this question yet, so... It is my understanding that no, the artist does not get any royalties from the sale of discs through BMG. In fact, at least for the initial Buy 1, get 12 free type of deal, I believe these discs are considered "promotional" legally, and the artist is actually charged the promotion cost against future royalties, just as they would be for print or radio ads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Another important (I guess...) distinction between buying new (or used) and getting a burn is that a burn creates no work for anybody other than CDR blank manufacturers/retailers. You buy new/used, you're dealing with a retailer, and that outlet is important (for now) in the overall chain of music creation/distribution, to say nothing of the overall "social" fabric of music accquisition. Call me hopelessly 20th century, but I actually enjoy going into a store, hunting, selecting, kibbutzing w/the staff, etc. It's a crucial part of my collecting experience, historically, and unfortunately (for me), it's rapidly vanishing. In this part of the country, the used stores and the reatilers alike are dropping like flies, and that sucks. Sure, the net offers great selection and the "joy" of never having to leave your house to get what you want, but just as a healthy music scene is dependent, eventually, on a healthy live performance scene, so is a healthy music retailing environment dependent, eventually, on a healthy "live" retailing scene. Some things there are no substitute for. Besides, every CDR of an album has its origins, somewhere, in a copy that somebody bought somewhere, new, used, cutout, whatever. As label inventory control has greatly reduced the number of cutouts over the last decade or so, if you want to get one of those goodies before it vanishes, it's most likely going to be a used copy. Now, if there's no place to buy it, where you gonna go? And, perhaps more to the point, if there's no place to sell it, relatively speaking, how do you think the already strict inventory controls of the labels are going to respond? Most likely by making even fewer copies, right? So eventually, the whole thing dries up, and there's like 150 copies made because that's all that will sell for sure to a dedicated fan base, with no leftovers, and anybody else will have to hunt for CDRs. Yippee! In a sense, trading of CDRs of OOP items instead of looking for them used, online or locally, is a form of "outsourcing" - "good" for you in the short term, but one day all of a sudden when you look up and there ain't no "there" there anymore, hey, what then? The key to continuing to have is continuing to give. Lord knows I'm a glutton for the OOP CDR stuff, but if I find a "real" copy after the fact, I buy it anyway and pass the CDR on to somebody who will hopefully follow suit when possible. AFAIC, buy live locally first, then online, and then use the CDR thing as a last resort. Keep some water in the stream so it doesn't dry up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 It is my understanding that no, the artist does not get any royalties from the sale of discs through BMG. In fact, at least for the initial Buy 1, get 12 free type of deal, I believe these discs are considered "promotional" legally, and the artist is actually charged the promotion cost against future royalties, just as they would be for print or radio ads. Never heard of stuff being "charged back" for free cds but artists usually get zippo from record club sales. This is covered by contracts they signed when they took money for the date. Some details might be challenged but most of it is up front some way or other. If an artist feels abused by the practice, the rewards are not worth the legal expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 i could not have said this any better! B-) it took you almost a year just for you to say this???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 To support my favourite artist, I go to second hand stores, buy all their CDs I can find and then destroy them Seriously, I see no moral issues at all with the second hand market for CDs. It is a minor economic problem compared to CD-R copying or internet downloads. Ideally, I would like to buy all my CDs from the artists themselves to ensure that they get a bigger part of the profit share. But then, how will I support my favourite small jazz record store? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinger Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 I buy used copies if I save some money. I don't buy any used cds if they have too many scratches (my NAD player is rather sensible to scratches and skips some parts if the cd is in bad condition), and if the price is not at least 30-40% lower than its retail price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 i could not have said this any better! B-) it took you almost a year just for you to say this???? yep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBop Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Hmmmm. No economists here, eh? When the original buyer purchases a CD, he/she obtains not only the physical CD, but also ownership rights enabling him/her to transfer ownership to another individual, with or without compensation. (This does not cover the ability to make copies or reproductions or derivatives from that orginal CD.) Any acquirer obtains similar rights. Consider this: What if the above were not true. What if any CD you purchased you either kept or discarded as worthless. Would you buy fewer CDs? An active secondary market helps artists, even if it does not generate direct, monetary compensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Hmmmm. No economists here, eh? When the original buyer purchases a CD, he/she obtains not only the physical CD, but also ownership rights enabling him/her to transfer ownership to another individual, with or without compensation. (This does not cover the ability to make copies or reproductions or derivatives from that orginal CD.) Any acquirer obtains similar rights. Consider this: What if the above were not true. What if any CD you purchased you either kept or discarded as worthless. Would you buy fewer CDs? An active secondary market helps artists, even if it does not generate direct, monetary compensation. Tell that to Garth Brooks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 (edited) The solution is the selfdestructing CD, or the downloadable album that has to be activated (paid) for every listen. This will get us rid of the second hand market ... and the CD collecting addiction Edited November 4, 2004 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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