Yes (the band) Reissues

[Aftab]

hunh?

[DrJ]

At this point in my life, one Yes album is plenty...and that one will probably always be CLOSE TO THE EDGE, a really remarkable achievement. Still listening to my old (flea market buy, circa 1976) vinyl for now but with plans to snag the CD remaster VERY soon. It's hard not to be disappointed with what came after that...Yes made some very fine music but nothing as well conceived or executed to me.

FWIW, I've always thought GOING FOR THE ONE was grossly underrated - a fine collection of tunes, beautifully recorded. THE YES ALBUM was wonderfully fresh and I still like that one.

[Aggie87]

Dr. J -

I think it would be worth your time to check out "Magnification". I think you'd be very pleasantly surprised at what you hear! No widdly keyboards at all - just Anderson/Howe/Squire/White with orchestral accompaniment. And it's not overblown at all - relatively subtle, and fits very well together.

Worth a spin or two!

-Erik

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I have never bought Magnification because I have been so turned-off by the performances of a few of the tunes from that record that I have heard in concert, and by the other various times I have encountered the music (on DVDs, radio, etc.). I don't hear *anything* there that makes me think of the good old days. It just makes me think that they have lost it and how glad I am that they realize that it's the classic repertoire that folks want to hear, not meaning a bunch of "hits" - they continue to bring out the 20-minute pieces and even dredge up old pieces that were (almost) never performed at the time, like South Side of the Sky.

Today I picked up the three latest remasters as well as the DVD "YesSpeak". I've listened to most of Drama, easily my favorite of the three. I am very disappointed that someone dropped the ball on the mixing of "Does It Really Happen?" - after the false ending, the return is supposed to fade in gradually. This is correct on the Joe Gastwirt remaster (Atlantic 82685-2) - the new one (Elektra/Rhino R2 73795) completely misses this important crescendo.

To pick a nit, the color matching on the cover (compared to the LP) is better on the Atlantic CD too.

The bonus material is wonderful - but why was "We Can Fly From Here" not included? That's one that has circulated for years and would even be played as a rarity on radio specials. Tantalizingly, there's also another version that includes Bill Bruford (!!!)

Next - has no one else noticed that the Tormato CD actually has 18 tracks, not 17 as listed everywhere? The final track is a vocal-less backing track version of Onward, one of the few good tunes on the record. Drag that my copy skips incessantly halfway through (maybe that's why they didn't list it). Track 17 is a working version of "Does It Really Happen" called "Everybody's Song" which is phenomenal, showing the direction things might have taken. There are some horrible bonus tracks too (Money - egads!).

For all the grief that some people give Drama (which I suspect is knee-jerk mostly because of the absence of Anderson), Tormato is by far the worse record. It's like all the worst bits of Going For The One (which does have some absolutely *marvelous* bits - Awaken, Turn of the Century, Wondrous Stories) - taken and then cut down into little bits. Something like Madrigal could have been expanded into a significant work a la Awaken, but it wasn't. There are other passages on the album that would have also worked well as portions of more fully-developed pieces.

Now, 90125 - what is the point of having a release of this which has the catalog number R2 73796???? I bought this just to be complete. There are actually quite a few things that could be reworked into quality Yes music. Of course, those weren't the choices that were made, and that's probably thought of as all the better - witness their commercial success. But personally, I was never a fan of it - I did see the tour which was rather mediocre. But not nearly as mediocre as the next time I saw the band - ABWH. Now THAT album was pure crap. I heard the single on the radio and said, "Well, if that's the single, maybe the album has the adventurous stuff." Boy, was I wrong. The single was actually more adventurous. Periodically I give it another chance but it has always failed miserably. Saw the tour because I never saw Bruford live with Yes and he actually ended up being the weakest link. Playing electric drums does NOT work on things like Close to the Edge. It ruined the show. I was bitterly disappointed by that. Wakeman was as soulless as ever - Bruford certainly has him pegged in that interview above. Very very clean fast playing, but absolutely just scales and arpeggios. No melody, none of the chromaticism that gives solos color.

Regarding Bruford's comment about the lack of jazz in progressive rock, I strongly disagree. In Yes, fine, but the work of Keith Emerson, especially in The Nice is filled with jazz harmony, melody, and rhythm, and instrumentation, particularly when they became a trio. Brian Davison was very capable of playing hard swinging drums and the band was doing covers inspired by Keith Jarrett (the version of My Back Pages, the BBC version of Sombrero Sam from the Charles Lloyd repertoire, etc.), Monk, Tristano, and Brubeck. Another seriously jazz influenced progressive group would be The Soft Machine. And King Crimson, particularly in the 1969 incarnation with Ian MacDonald (dig the live stuff issued on the 4-CD set Epitaph). Mike Giles was every bit the jazz player that Bruford was and if anyone has heard the Brondesbury Tapes issue of demos by Giles, Giles, and Fripp (and even the studio album on Deram), it's very clear that jazz was a part of the mix.

Back to Yes - the band has done good live shows recently. I preferred the orchestra show to the return of Wakeman, although not because of Tom Brislin, who did not impress. As the Brits say - WANKER!

Mike

[Peter Johnson]

I was introduced to Yes with 90125, and just repurchased the remaster (after losing my old CD copy somewhere along the way). Sounds great!

Can some of you Yes-heads tell me, if I LOVE 90125, which direction I should go in their repertoire?

Yes, I loved Asia back in the day as well...

I just don't know where to branch out with Yes, and would love to do so.

org.org is EXPENSIVE!

[Aggie87]

Mike - Different strokes for different folks I guess. I think Mag is the best Yes album since Drama, personally. IMO it actually benefits from the absence of keyboards. The only track I don't care for is their one attempt at radio play, "Don't Go". I think the rest is very well done Yes music.

I don't care much for what Wakeman's brought to the group, either with the Keys albums or in concert last year. Not sure how they'll do in the studio, if they ever get around to recording a new disc. The five new tracks on the US version of Ultimate Yes are nice, but nothing spectacular (best things are the acoustic versions of Roundabout & South Side of the Sky).

Regarding the "hidden" track on Tormato, I've read that it was put on at the last minute, as a tribute to Andrew Pryce Jackman, the arranger of the orchestral part of "Onward", who recently passed away. Apparently there are a number of discs that have problems on that track (mine doesn't). You might take it back to the store you purchased it at, and get a replacement.

Peter - If you liked 90125, you might try the follow-up, Big Generator. It's very similar in style (even though it took Yes about 4 years to make it, for some reason). Talk is also from the same lineup, though many think it's mainly a Trevor Rabin solo album, on which Jon Anderson sings. The Rabin-era albums are in a completely different style than earlier (and later) Yes. Alot of 70's era fans have problems with these albums, but I can enjoy them for what they are. Union also has some tracks on it by this lineup, as well as some ABWH tracks, on which Squire was overdubbed (voice only). I'd only recommend this album to a completist, though there are a few moments I enjoy.

It's difficult to recommend much of the rest of Yes to someone who likes 90125 though. Maybe The Ladder. Most of the 70's era is so different from 90125 that you just have to try some of it out and see what you think. I'd start with The Yes Album, if you want to dip your toes into the 70's stuff, without diving into the albums with the 20 minute epics on them.

Stear clear of these, unless you become a completist: Union, Tormato, and Open Your Eyes. Drama is an underrated album, but the only one on which Jon Anderson is absent, so it probably isn't a good one to try out at first, either.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

FWIW, I consider Talk to be the best of anything Yes that involved Rabin.

I didn't have any problem about keyboards/lack thereof on the music from Magnification that I heard - it just sounded trite and bland, lacking melodic and harmonic interest and direction/propulsion. I think the tracks that I have heard them do live are Magnification, Don't Go, and In the Presence Of, maybe one more. Some of these are on the YesSpeak DVD and I think there are some things on the Symphonic DVD, too. But then again, "The best Yes album since Drama" isn't such a great award in my book. That's like the old compliment "You sure don't sweat much, for a fat girl."

Mike

[A Lark Ascending]

Give 'Magnification' a go, Mike. I was a huge sceptic, dismissing everything after Topographic Oceans. What I like about 'Magnification' is the fact that it is melodic, with those great key changes mid-song that gave much of the 70s era tunes their distinctiveness.

With regard to Bruford's comments I think he was generalising about the genre. What he says certainly holds true of Genesis - and the dozens of similar groups of the time like Camel and Greenslade. Emerson could certainly do the jazzy thing, especially with the Nice and on the first ELP record, but the pomp tended to dominate afterwards.

Bruford commented somewhere else how playing in stadiums tended to reduce rock drumming to a very simple pounding time-keeping. Anything else got lost in the dreadful acoustics. Perhaps this explains why ELP got increasingly coarser. Pomp fills stadiums better than twiddly jazz bits.

I suspect he would agree with regard to parts of KC even before he joined; though there was a fair dollop of Anglican pomp on the first two records alongside some jazzier moments (the middle of 'Schizoid Man' for example or the wonderful free-form section of 'Moon Child').

I don't think he'd include Soft Machine in his definition of 'prog-rock' (he hints as much and has good things to say about Dave Stewart, a fellow traveller of the Softs, elsewhere in the article). That whole Canterbury scene - Matching Mole, Hatfield, Egg, Caravan, National Health etc - were always a few steps away from the much more successful prog bands. Perhaps their jazziness stood in the way of wider acceptance.

I can certainly recall, as a 17 year old, moving actively in their direction as a way of drawing a distance between myself and a music that had become mega-popular. It was much cooler to like Hatfield and the North than Genesis!

[Guest ariceffron]

what really boogles my noggin is how mike fitzgereald who just wrote a book on gigi gryce just made a detailed post in a 'YES' column. could it be others who enjoy jazz enjoy prog rock as well. if you guys like 90125, you --might-- dig this jon solo lp from 81 i just got: annimation. its really poppy and not too too interesting but i dunno. does anyone know of this.

[Guest ariceffron]

okok i just have 2 ask. i wanted to ask what m. Fitzgerald thinks the best yes lp. i wanted to know because he likes jazz so much and i guess you could say is some sort of author or jazz historian from what i hear, i thought maybe hed like RELAYER best. but i want to test this hypothesis by asking him. If the answer is no.., why? I dont know if i like relayer best. ive lost the ability to make those kind of judgement calls, i really like yes as a complete body of work. they same way i do w/ like donald Byrd for example.

[Guest ariceffron]

but i really really like playing the synth parts for GATES more than anything right now. all those whaked out mod wheel heavy synth lines and stuff- i learned how to play like that for that song

[Jim Alfredson]

So... I recently picked up the remaster of Fragile, which I've never heard and today I got Relayer.

I was a HUGE Genesis fan in middle/high school and once I emptied out their catalog I was trying to find new stuff. I got into ELP, Gentle Giant, Marillion (meh) and someone also suggested Yes.

I remember going to my local used record store and getting Tales From Topographic Oceans on LP. I was into Genesis and The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway really heavy at this time and thought, "Cool! Another double album!"

I hated it. Listened to it once and never put it on again. That turned me off from Yes the whole time.

I realize now why I didn't like them at the time. They are much more "funky" than Genesis. I wasn't ready for it, since I was not into jazz at the time. There is a certain harmonic sense they were exploring that has more to do with jazz and avant classical than other prog bands.

Anyway, Fragile is pretty cool, but I'm really digging Relayer! I'll have to dig out my LP copy of Tales again and give it a spin.

[Guest akanalog]

on relayer, the last part of that gates of delerium song is sickness.

after the fast buildup there is that sort of breakdown part....awesome.

i think patrick moraz on synths makes this album. it has a different flavor than the earlier wakeman albums.

well i guess the rest of the album isn't so great, but the long song is nice.

[Guest ariceffron]

YOU JUST DONT UNDERSTAND TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS AND THATS WHY YOU DONT LIKE IT. THAT ALBUM CONTAINS SOME OF THEIR BEST MOST MOVING MELODIES EVER. YES SOME OF THE 'SOLOS' WANDER BUT THATS CAUSE THEY HAD TOO MUCH MATERIAL FOR AN ALBUM AND NOT ENOUGH FOR A DOUBLE ALBUM AND IT WAS THE 70S AND YOU COULDNT PUT IT ALL ONE 1 CD SO WHAT WERE U GONNA DO.

[Jim Alfredson]

I didn't get it at the time, that's what I said. I wasn't ready for it. I haven't tried to listen to it since, which is why I'm going to pull out the ol' vinyl.

[fent99]

Listened to Yes (and Gabriel Genesis) in my youth and have a lot of nostalgia for it but feel sure that's all there would be. The Yes Album and Fragile are the faves and if the remasters sound that much better maybe I should pick them up (all I have are store bought cassettes which are seldom dug out now.

Last time I had a Yes moment was watching the film Buffalo 66 where something from Fragile (I forget what) is used to great effect...

Always loved the cover to Tormato (though the music was a bit duff)

[7/4]

Close to the Edge is their finest moment.

[A Lark Ascending]

I realize now why I didn't like them at the time.  They are much more "funky" than Genesis.  I wasn't ready for it, since I was not into jazz at the time.  There is a certain harmonic sense they were exploring that has more to do with jazz and avant classical than other prog bands.

I'm not sure I'd describe Yes as 'funky' but I think I know what you mean. I've been listening to and enjoying early Genesis lately. One think that you do notice is how little improvisation there is in Genesis; Tony Banks keyboard parts are almost baroque. With Yes there's a much greater freedom in the instrumentals.

I think Bill Bruford's comments about the Anglican church tradition apply very much to Genesis; with Yes I'm not so sure. Steve Howe could pull off some very jazzy guitar - the last two tracks on "The Yes Album" are worth listening to just for the guitar.

On the Genesis front I've become much more aware of the contribution of Steve Hackett. He played a huge part in the colour of that music in the early to mid-70s. I think one of things that disappoints me about the later Genesis is not so much the loss of Gabriel as the loss of the textural breadth you had with the acoustic/electric contrast. The electronic keyboards just seem so much narrower.

I'm very much with Aric on Topographic. Can never understand the pasting it got. The melodies are gorgeous.

Edited November 4, 2004 by Bev Stapleton

[Jim Alfredson]

I'm not sure I'd describe Yes as 'funky' but I think I know what you mean. I've been listening to and enjoying early Genesis lately. One think that you do notice is how little improvisation there is in Genesis; Tony Banks keyboard parts are almost baroque. With Yes there's a much greater freedom in the instrumentals.

That is definately true. Genesis is very composed and Tony, or anyone else for that matter, never strayed from what they played on the record when playing live.

Maybe rather than "funky" I should've said "R&B" influenced. There are some serious grooves going on in some of that stuff. For instance, I don't think Genesis ever used a shuffle beat.

On the Genesis front I've become much more aware of the contribution of Steve Hackett. He played a huge part in the colour of that music in the early to mid-70s. I think one of things that disappoints me about the later Genesis is not so much the loss of Gabriel as the loss of the textural breadth you had with the acoustic/electric contrast. The electronic keyboards just seem so much narrower.

Hackett was not only a huge part of their sound (the contrast between Trespass and Nursery Crime is staggering) but he was also a very influential guitarist. He was doing hammer-ons and appeggios long before anyone ever heard of Eddie Van Halen.

It's pretty obvious that he became less and less of a factor and it's understandable why he left. Tony's synths just took over. That said, they were able to make some nice albums post-Gabriel.

I'm very much with Aric on Topographic. Can never understand the pasting it got. The melodies are gorgeous.

I'm going to dig out my vinyl copy and give it a listen before plunking down the cash for the CD.

[Jim Alfredson]

Listening to it now. God, I love vinyl.

It sounds much better than I remember. I'm probably a little more ready for it now than I was when I was 16.

[Jim Alfredson]

God damn.

Is it just me or does the low end on vinyl just kick serious ass?

CDs suck.

[Jim Alfredson]

This is kickin' ass. I love the mellotron.

[Guest ariceffron]

ONE OF THE 1ST SONGS YES EVER WOULD JAM TO WAS : IN THE MIDNIGHT HOUR

[A Lark Ascending]

Its a great pity more of those early covers never got recorded.

I love their versions of Paul Simon's 'America' and Crosby's 'I See You'.

[DrJ]

I have a hard time getting into Yes as much these days as I once did, and I have no idea why. But damn, I still love CLOSE TO THE EDGE, what an utterly incredible masterpiece that one was, especially the first side. This is an interesting little discussion, the R&B influence, you can definitely hear it.