BFT 170 Discussion Thread

[lipi]

I see the 169 reveal was posted, so it's time to torture you all with my selections. This is the fourth BFT I've put together, and I tried something different this time. The goal is to generate discussion and encourage comparisons between tracks. We'll see. It might just irritate people, in which case, hey, I'm just reflecting the zeitgeist, right?

Thom Keith has been kind enough to host once again:

http://thomkeith.net/index.php/blindfold-tests/

I just picked things that I find fun. I learned in BFT 130 that I don't need to pick obscure things to confuse people and have them second guessing.

[JSngry]

# 1 - Louis, but I don't know the tune. Don't need to, it's Louis!

# 2 - Not Louis, and I still don't know the tune. I'll assume that it's Django, but I hope it's not. Not in the mood for this kind of thing right now, it sounds pretty gross, actually, but that's just me at this moment.

#3

oh HELL yeah.

#4

https://www.discogs.com/Benny-Goodman-And-His-Orchestra-Honeysuckle-Rose-Spring-Song/release/1801386

Toots, Buff, Bus, and Jerry rockin' the section politely but rightly. Fletcher Henderson as played by Benny Goodman, that's a very real thing, hello!

#5 - I heard Les Paul right away, but the cut itself was unknown to me, had to hunt, but found it. Hello Joe Venuti, and I tell people, don't sell Kay Starr short, that woman could deal. I'd buy this...hell, I just did, thanks!

#6 - Django & Ellington live. Somehow this was among the first Django I heard, probably on some crazy back alley Ellington lp. Very simpatico those two, and check Django out, getting all hip and shit, that guy...

#7 - And this time https://www.discogs.com/Django-Reinhardt-Le-Quintette-Du-Hot-Club-De-France-Avec-Hubert-Rostaing-On-The-Sunny-Side-Of-The-St/release/5390085

#8 - Diddy Galippy on the Stuff(y) side of the street, with his bebop joe carrol on parade.

#9 - almost a Trenier?

#10 - No idea

#11 - That trio, Gene Krupa, eh, whatever, but Benny & Teddy always fir, from then until the end

#12 No, not Bob Wills, wrong "Western", but swing, yes. https://www.discogs.com/Django-Reinhardt-St%C3%A9phane-Grappelli-Eddie-South-Lady-Be-Good/release/7516952

#13 - No idea

# 14 - Sounds like Benny's band recorded all wrongly. But that tenor player is really familiar. Oh shit, that's Shaw..and that's Buddy Rich, with Georgie Auld on tenor. Who mastered this?

#15 - Eric Clapton?

Hell, you kept me up past my bedtime, starting with Hawk, Hawk was a motherfucker, not that Louis wasn't, but Hawk, geez, that one hooked me right in, then Benny, then Kay Starr, hell, I gotta go to bed. But this was some tasty stuff, hooked me for longer than I had planned, thank you!

 

 

[Hot Ptah]

Track 15 is Blind Willie Johnson, “Dark is the Night, Cold is the Ground.” I havs long enjoyed Blind Willie Johnson’s music.

This track was included on a special disc sent into deep space by NASA together with other examples of Earth’s culture and sounds.

[Misterioso]

3 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

This track was included on a special disc sent into deep space by NASA together with other examples of Earth’s culture and sounds.

Which format? Vinyl? I wonder how "they" were supposed to play the disc.

[Hot Ptah]

12 minutes ago, Misterioso said:

Which format? Vinyl? I wonder how "they" were supposed to play the disc.

This has been written about quite extensively. Ihttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/golden-record/

Track 10 is James Booker playing and singing “On the Sunny Side of the Street”, from the album “New Orleans Piano Wizard Live.”

i love James Booker’s music. His touch, his conception, his massive technique harnessed to the creation of soulful works—all great to me. It was a great loss when he passed away so young.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Hot Ptah

[Marzz]

Big fan of Blind Willie Johnson.

Track 9 is by Harold Nicholas (tap-dancing, ex husband of Dorothy Dandridge!) recorded in Paris, 1959. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Marzz

[lipi]

3 hours ago, Marzz said:

Big fan of Blind Willie Johnson.

Track 9 is by Harold Nicholas (tap-dancing, ex husband of Dorothy Dandridge!) recorded in Paris, 1959. 

I'll start with this one: that was supposed to be more of a stumper. Did you know the recording? I always found his voice has a touch of Nat King Cole in it here. I never got to see Harold, but I met his brother Fayard a year or two before he died.

I'll just leave this here, in case someone has managed to avoid seeing it. Nicholas brothers in "Stormy Weather." Harold is the one with the floppy hair. No points for recognizing the band.

 

4 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

Track 10 is James Booker playing and singing “On the Sunny Side of the Street”, from the album “New Orleans Piano Wizard Live.”

i love James Booker’s music. His touch, his conception, his massive technique harnessed to the creation of soulful works—all great to me. It was a great loss when he passed away so young.

That's the one! For reasons I cannot fathom I always lump him in my head with Monty Alexander. Anyway: you got it. It was recorded at a concert in Zürich in 1977 (this gaudy website will show you what the venue looks like now: https://www.albisguetli.ch/de/Startseite).

[lipi]

4 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

Track 15 is Blind Willie Johnson, “Dark is the Night, Cold is the Ground.” I havs long enjoyed Blind Willie Johnson’s music.

This track was included on a special disc sent into deep space by NASA together with other examples of Earth’s culture and sounds.

That's the one, of course. And you even picked the reason I decided to include it.

This time a West Wing video. The writing for this series was the best I've ever seen for television. Sorkin seems to have taken a liberty with the exact cause of death, but whatever.

 

[lipi]

5 hours ago, JSngry said:

# 1 - Louis, but I don't know the tune. Don't need to, it's Louis!

It is! Now why did I include it, though? There is a specific reason.

# 2 - Not Louis, and I still don't know the tune. I'll assume that it's Django, but I hope it's not. Not in the mood for this kind of thing right now, it sounds pretty gross, actually, but that's just me at this moment.

Not Django. I love this, but de gustibus non disputandum est. Unless you like Ke$ha over Satchmo. Then we'll disputand the hell out of it.

#3

oh HELL yeah.

Indeed. : )  Do you want to talk us through the line-up?

#4

https://www.discogs.com/Benny-Goodman-And-His-Orchestra-Honeysuckle-Rose-Spring-Song/release/1801386

Toots, Buff, Bus, and Jerry rockin' the section politely but rightly. Fletcher Henderson as played by Benny Goodman, that's a very real thing, hello!

Yup yup.

#5 - I heard Les Paul right away, but the cut itself was unknown to me, had to hunt, but found it. Hello Joe Venuti, and I tell people, don't sell Kay Starr short, that woman could deal. I'd buy this...hell, I just did, thanks!

Sí.

When I presented my first BFT I hoped it would lead to one person discovering and buying one thing as a result. Thank you for making this BFT successful!

#6 - Django & Ellington live. Somehow this was among the first Django I heard, probably on some crazy back alley Ellington lp. Very simpatico those two, and check Django out, getting all hip and shit, that guy...

Oui.

It's a miracle this recording exists. I assume others will fill in a bit of the story as the month progresses.

#7 - And this time https://www.discogs.com/Django-Reinhardt-Le-Quintette-Du-Hot-Club-De-France-Avec-Hubert-Rostaing-On-The-Sunny-Side-Of-The-St/release/5390085

Ja.

As you can tell, I like the guy. Or at least his music; he would have driven me absolutely bananas IRL.

#8 - Diddy Galippy on the Stuff(y) side of the street, with his bebop joe carrol on parade.

да.

#9 - almost a Trenier?

Identified further down. (It doesn't sound like the Treniers to me. The voice maybe a little, but the instrumentation/arrangement/etc. not at all. I haven't listened to an awful lot of the Treniers, though, so I might be missing a period.)

#10 - No idea

#11 - That trio, Gene Krupa, eh, whatever, but Benny & Teddy always fir, from then until the end

"fir"?

And it's what you think, of course.

#12 No, not Bob Wills, wrong "Western", but swing, yes. https://www.discogs.com/Django-Reinhardt-St%C3%A9phane-Grappelli-Eddie-South-Lady-Be-Good/release/7516952

はい、そです.

#13 - No idea

# 14 - Sounds like Benny's band recorded all wrongly. But that tenor player is really familiar. Oh shit, that's Shaw..and that's Buddy Rich, with Georgie Auld on tenor. Who mastered this?

I don't know whether there's a better mastered version available. Yes, it's Artie. More details later, if no one else fills them in.

#15 - Eric Clapton?

Hell, you kept me up past my bedtime, starting with Hawk, Hawk was a motherfucker, not that Louis wasn't, but Hawk, geez, that one hooked me right in, then Benny, then Kay Starr, hell, I gotta go to bed. But this was some tasty stuff, hooked me for longer than I had planned, thank you!

Glad you enjoyed it!

Any totally subjective opinions of the "this recording is better than that recording, I like this version better than that version" type?

(I hate the quoting function on this board so very, very much.)

[Hot Ptah]

4 hours ago, lipi said:

(I hate the quoting function on this board so very, very much.)

I put my responses in color. usually red, or in a different font style and much larger size type. 

Otherwise if you reply within the post of the member, it does not show up clearly as to what was the original post and which is your reply. It is frustrating.

5 hours ago, lipi said:

That's the one, of course. And you even picked the reason I decided to include it.

This time a West Wing video. The writing for this series was the best I've ever seen for television. Sorkin seems to have taken a liberty with the exact cause of death, but whatever.

 

That is where I leaned that the Blind Willie Johnson Track is on the NASA disc, from that episode of the West Wing show!

[Hot Ptah]

Regarding the James Booker cut, it reminds me of the enlarged photo inside the Jazz Tent at the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival of James Booker and a very young Harry Connick, Jr., playing a piano duet. Harry must be under ten years old in the photo. Last year I saw Harry perform at the Festival. When he puts his mind to it,  that man can really play some compelling piano.

I included a James Booker cut on my first Blindfold Test, almost ten years ago.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Hot Ptah

[lipi]

Speaking of Harry Connick, Jr...this video of his went viral a few years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw

Without reading the comments on the video, can you tell what/how/where the magic occurs?

[Marzz]

On 5/1/2018 at 11:12 PM, lipi said:

I'll start with this one: that was supposed to be more of a stumper. Did you know the recording? I always found his voice has a touch of Nat King Cole in it here. I never got to see Harold, but I met his brother Fayard a year or two before he died.

I'll just leave this here, in case someone has managed to avoid seeing it. Nicholas brothers in "Stormy Weather." Harold is the one with the floppy hair. No points for recognizing the band.

 

That scene never gets old for me. Even Fred Astaire was a fan, apparently! But those "splits" - ouch!

About 20 years ago I was buying up the then new "Jazz in Paris" series and Nicholas was on one of them. Eight standards, all very enjoyable. I hadn't realized it was the same guy as the dancer though. Agreed about Nat King Cole btw. Just re-read the liners and apparently Nicholas "adored King Cole, Sinatra and Joe Williams".

This is the CD I have...

https://www.discogs.com/Harold-Nicholas-June-Richmond-Andy-Bey-Harold-Nicholas-June-Richmond-Andy-Bey/release/953500

Edited May 2, 2018 by Marzz
typo

[Marzz]

On 5/1/2018 at 5:55 PM, JSngry said:

# 1 - Louis, but I don't know the tune. Don't need to, it's Louis!

Track 1 - The tune is "Indian Cradle Song" (rec.1930). But I haven't worked out why it's included!

Edited May 2, 2018 by Marzz

[lipi]

4 hours ago, Marzz said:

That scene never gets old for me. Even Fred Astaire was a fan apparently! But those "splits" - ouch!

About 20 years ago I was buying up the then new "Jazz in Paris" series and Nicholas was on one of them. Eight standards, all very enjoyable. I hadn't realized it was the same guy as the dancer though. Agreed about Nat King Cole btw. Just re-read the liners and apparently Nicholas "adored King Cole, Sinatra and Joe Williams".

This is the CD I have...

https://www.discogs.com/Harold-Nicholas-June-Richmond-Andy-Bey-Harold-Nicholas-June-Richmond-Andy-Bey/release/953500

That's the CD I pulled this from.

They were singing and dancing from the very start. And here they are singing and dancing in 1936. Harold is the little one:

About fifteen years ago, I took a tap workshop where I learned this routine from Cathie and Nicole Nicholas, Fayard's granddaughters. They still perform it occasionally.

They also did some impressions in their act. Here Harold is hamming it up as Cab in 1937:

 

20 minutes ago, Marzz said:

Track 1 - The tune is "Indian Cradle Song" (rec.1930). But I haven't worked out why it's included?

That's the one! The why is in some way linked to parts of the rest of this BFT.

Edited May 2, 2018 by lipi

[medjuck]

11 hours ago, lipi said:

That's the CD I pulled this from.

They were singing and dancing from the very start. And here they are singing and dancing in 1936. Harold is the little one:

About fifteen years ago, I took a tap workshop where I learned this routine from Cathie and Nicole Nicholas, Fayard's granddaughters. They still perform it occasionally.

They also did some impressions in their act. Here Harold is hamming it up as Cab in 1937:

 

That's the one! The why is in some way linked to parts of the rest of this BFT.

They join Fred Astaire about half way through this: 

I met Fayard at a Duke Ellington Society meeting in LA a couple of decades ago.  

On 5/1/2018 at 5:55 PM, JSngry said:

 

 

 

Was that originally released as a Coleman Hawkins record?  I always presumed it was under  Benny Carter's name. 

[JSngry]

8 minutes ago, medjuck said:

Was that originally released as a Coleman Hawkins record? 

No idea, but maybe not?

[lipi]

According to Michael Dregni's "Django: the life and music of a gypsy legend," they were released as Coleman Hawkins and his All-Star "Jam" Band, just as on the Swing and Victor labels above.

Carter had apparently been charged with writing some arrangements, but never came through. (Dregni, 125)

[medjuck]

He seems to borrow from that arrangement on his album Further Definitions  especially in the last chorus. 

 

 

 

 

 

[lipi]

On 03/05/2018 at 5:12 PM, medjuck said:

He seems to borrow from that arrangement on his album Further Definitions  especially in the last chorus. 

I don't know that Benny Carter album, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least! The recording of "Honeysuckle Rose" on Swing is a classic that's been highly regarded by almost everyone from the day it was released. (Almost everyone except Bean, who apparently said something like "They're just jam sessions, nothing special.")

 

Not specifically in response to medjuck's post:

I know it's anathema to the usual BFT discussions here, but any thoughts of comparison between the tracks? The identification is part of the fun, but really listening to the music is most of it. (Unless you hate the music, of course! Skip those tracks!) Which of the Honeysuckles did you enjoy most? Which least? Why? Which musicians, if any, would you have fired from the gig?

[medjuck]

This sums up what I think pretty well even though it's by Scott Yanow:

https://www.allmusic.com/album/further-definitions-mw0000335476

 

I bought the Lp when it first came out and it was one of the first cds I ever owned.  (Admittedly because, along with a couple of other Impulses, it was one of the first cds I ever saw discounted.) 

[tkeith]

A bit delayed and getting ears on this one.  Once I had the chance, I was mostly confounded.  Weak pocket of the genre for me, so always an education.

Track 01 - No idea

Track 02 - No idea

Track 03 - Honeysuckle Rose. No idea

Track 04 - Honeysuckle Rose, again. No idea

Track 05 - That sure sounds like Edward Kennedy Ellington on piano, and Honeysuckle Rose.

Track 06 - This BFT is in full bloom. No idea.

Track 07 - And the Sunny Side of the Street is leading to all those flowers. Sounds like Rabbit to me, but almost too clean.

Track 08 - More sun! Could there be more flowers to follow!? Track is this, though I know not from which source.

Track 09 - More sun. Not sure. I was thinking Jerome Richardson on flute/bari, but more due to context than any sure feeling. Trumpet sounds familiar (like, should have had him).

Track 10 - Hmmm... theme is in full force. Obvious guess would be Fatha Hines, but I think it's more likely someone playing like EFH.

Track 11 - No idea.

Track 12 - Sounds like Django to me, but no further guesses.

Track 13 - No idea.

Track 14 - No idea.

Track 15 - No idea.

[lipi]

On 15/05/2018 at 7:07 AM, tkeith said:

A bit delayed and getting ears on this one.  Once I had the chance, I was mostly confounded.  Weak pocket of the genre for me, so always an education.

 

Track 03 - Honeysuckle Rose. No idea

Track 04 - Honeysuckle Rose, again. No idea

Track 05 - That sure sounds like Edward Kennedy Ellington on piano, and Honeysuckle Rose.

Track 06 - This BFT is in full bloom. No idea.

I'll reply in this pinkish shade... (How do you set the background colour?)

Yes! They're all Honeysuckle Roses. That is not the Duke on track 5, though...

Track 07 - And the Sunny Side of the Street is leading to all those flowers. Sounds like Rabbit to me, but almost too clean.

Agreed that it sounds a bit like Hodges! It's not him, though.

Track 08 - More sun! Could there be more flowers to follow!? Track is this, though I know not from which source.

That's the one! I took it from this album: https://www.amazon.com/Champ-Dizzy-Gillespie/dp/B000087N0W

Track 09 - More sun. Not sure. I was thinking Jerome Richardson on flute/bari, but more due to context than any sure feeling. Trumpet sounds familiar (like, should have had him).

To my incredible annoyance, the album I took this from is stingy with its discographic information, and I have not been able to find anything useful online, either. The singer is the only member I can positively ID. Suggestions for others welcome!

Track 10 - Hmmm... theme is in full force. Obvious guess would be Fatha Hines, but I think it's more likely someone playing like EFH.

Not Fatha.

Track 12 - Sounds like Django to me, but no further guesses.

The man himself.

Thank you for listening! JSngry and His Merry Band of Posters have identified most of the tracks above, but there are details to fill in, and preferences to express, of course. Particularly curious to hear if you intensely disliked any of it. Did any of the Roses, Suns, or Ladies stand out as particularly good or bad?

[lipi]

*boop* One week left!

I've been trolling for judgemental posts, but you're all so well-behaved. So let me incite some: this stuff is real jazz, and Miles Davis was a jerk and a crook, taking beautiful music and destroying it!

OK, now tell me what you really think.

[Hot Ptah]

I have noticed that often there is a lull in the BFT discussion in the middle of the month, and then the discussion picks up again toward the end of the month.