Dan Gould Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) And I thought a reaction that what Jim said was an actual or even allegorical threat to be completely ludicrous. It's unfortunate that Paul left over it, but I do now recall the way the thread went even after Paul's removal of his posts. I certainly hadn't put that together with his no longer posting. Edited May 12, 2019 by Dan Gould Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) It appears I bailed out of that thread before it all kicked off - just wasn't interested enough in the groups' music. Now I read the linked threads and I'm more than astounded that such behaviour was allowed - no moderation indeed. Having read that, I'm not at all surprised Paul decided to remove himself from such an environment. Edited May 12, 2019 by mjazzg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 Thanks for the links gents. That kind of comment is just not acceptable, although I do realize that things are sometimes said in the heat of the moment. As Soulpope intimated, maybe Jim contacting Paul and apologizing would help. At any rate, does anyone have Paul’s email? I’d like to contact him and ask him to consider coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 23 minutes ago, Dan Gould said: And I thought a reaction that what Jim said was an actual or even allegorical threat to be completely ludicrous. It's unfortunate that Paul left over it, but I do now recall the way the thread went even after Paul's removal of his posts. I certainly hadn't put that together with his no longer posting. You’re free to have that opinion, but as worded it is indeed a threat. That’s not to say that was Jim’s intention. Just that when looking for the right words to convey his thoughts, he found all the wrong ones. If multiple people can read it the same way, well, then you’ve got fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 How the hell did I threaten him? I made the comment about that band probably not having guns or knives, and made it in the context of their political posturing. Joe then said something like that's a very American thing to say, and then Paul - post now deleted - said well, a "certain type" of American anyway. That's a push, so he got pushback. I mean, what "certain type" of American was he saying that I was? AAnd based on what? The man does not know me other than online. Anybody who thinks that they know anybody strictly from online interactions is a damn fool. So then I gave out with a pretty standard spiel about guns/gun ownership/the need for still-protection/and you know, this band is talking the talk but I doubt they're walking the walk. Larry got it, said so, and then Paul got really pissy and said something about moderators sticking together, eh? which is just really dumb. I mean, wow, tow people seeing a certain thing the same way, they MUST be in cahoots? So yeah, more pushing and pushing back, he kept trying to go with this "certain type of American" angle, which I found to be pretty offensive myself to be honest. Not threatening, just rank bullshit. So hey. And then, I said, " Now - am I myself armed? Maybe yes, maybe not. Do you want to find out? " That's a rhetorical question that simply means, it's none of your business, if you wnat't o find out, why? and if you don't, then step back. You'll never know, and since you DON'T know, and will NEVER know, stop it with these ludicrous "certain type of American" things, ok, chill out and grow up, Perhaps not every member here is equipped with the context and/or life experience to get that, and if was interpreted any other way, ok, sorry for that. But the question as asked in the context that it was asked still stands. And then he said something about judging musicians by the size of their arsenals, to which I responded with: I assumed that he would recognize the image of Lee Dorsey clowning with an old rusty pistol, both it and him are pretty "famous" in ways that surely Paul would know. It's an album cover, actually, and I know that Paul knows Lee Dorsey. So where does this bullshit about "threatening" Paul Secor come from? Look, Paul has had brouhahas here before. It's not like he's a Zen-like calmguy, then or now. I remember getting into it with him about Nolan Ryan, and no matter how many statistics and contexts were offered, he would not back down on his position that Nolan Ryan was just not THAT good. He's not one to default to de-escalate, let's put it that way. And until now, he seemed to accept that and enjoy it well enough to keep doing it. In this thread, he pushed, he got pushback (AND a free Lee Dorsey pic!) and then for whatever reason took his ball and go home. Too bad, but his choice all the way. I kept giving context, he kept on getting pissy and making it person about me and Larry (mostly me, but the idea that Larry and I were conspiring against him was just really, REALLY, dumb. As for the whole gun thing...it's a fact of life, now and historically. And as far as "resistance"...guns and resistance go hand in hand. I mentioned the Panthers as an example, and you can go to the other side today, what with the White Nationalists. Or hell, go back to 1776. Acknowledgement of a reality does not equate to an approval of it. And that Allison Miller clip is still lame as fuck, musically and rhetorically. I will say this, though - anybody who feels uncomfortable with the mere mention of guns in a political (or otehr context), I am sorry for you, because you are really NOT ready for modern life in all its facets. And I say that with a great deal of sadness, really. But oh well. Now, am I armed or not? Unless you come into my house uninvited, you'll never know. One way or the other. So let me now ask - who here will be attempting to come into my house uninvited? Let me know so I can feel threatened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted May 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Brad said: Thanks for the links gents. That kind of comment is just not acceptable, although I do realize that things are sometimes said in the heat of the moment. As Soulpope intimated, maybe Jim contacting Paul and apologizing would help. At any rate, does anyone have Paul’s email? I’d like to contact him and ask him to consider coming back. You can still reach out to Paul via the forum`s communication function .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, Brad said: As Soulpope intimated, maybe Jim contacting Paul and apologizing would help. I'd like to see him come back as well, but I'll be damned if I'm going to apologize for something I did not do, nor was approached about directly. This thing about he thought I was "threatening" him, I never heard that from him, ever, not once. Nor did anybody else reach out and say, dude, Secor's freaking out about the Lee Dorsey thing, or whatever it was that pushed him over the edge. I mean, if I scare people that much that they're afraid to come straight about clarification...I find that more than just a little absurd. And oh yeah, I find being labeled a "certain type" of American without any further explanation or justification deeply offensive. Offensive, but not threatening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, JSngry said: How the hell did I threaten him? I made the comment about that band probably not having guns or knives, and made it in the context of their political posturing. Joe then said something like that's a very American thing to say, and then Paul - post now deleted - said well, a "certain type" of American anyway. That's a push, so he got pushback. I mean, what "certain type" of American was he saying that I was? AAnd based on what? The man does not know me other than online. Anybody who thinks that they know anybody strictly from online interactions is a damn fool. So then I gave out with a pretty standard spiel about guns/gun ownership/the need for still-protection/and you know, this band is talking the talk but I doubt they're walking the walk. Larry got it, said so, and then Paul got really pissy and said something about moderators sticking together, eh? which is just really dumb. I mean, wow, tow people seeing a certain thing the same way, they MUST be in cahoots? So yeah, more pushing and pushing back, he kept trying to go with this "certain type of American" angle, which I found to be pretty offensive myself to be honest. Not threatening, just rank bullshit. So hey. And then, I said, " Now - am I myself armed? Maybe yes, maybe not. Do you want to find out? " That's a rhetorical question that simply means, it's none of your business, if you wnat't o find out, why? and if you don't, then step back. You'll never know, and since you DON'T know, and will NEVER know, stop it with these ludicrous "certain type of American" things, ok, chill out and grow up, Perhaps not every member here is equipped with the context and/or life experience to get that, and if was interpreted any other way, ok, sorry for that. But the question as asked in the context that it was asked still stands. And then he said something about judging musicians by the size of their arsenals, to which I responded with: I assumed that he would recognize the image of Lee Dorsey clowning with an old rusty pistol, both it and him are pretty "famous" in ways that surely Paul would know. It's an album cover, actually, and I know that Paul knows Lee Dorsey. So where does this bullshit about "threatening" Paul Secor come from? Look, Paul has had brouhahas here before. It's not like he's a Zen-like calmguy, then or now. I remember getting into it with him about Nolan Ryan, and no matter how many statistics and contexts were offered, he would not back down on his position that Nolan Ryan was just not THAT good. He's not one to default to de-escalate, let's put it that way. And until now, he seemed to accept that and enjoy it well enough to keep doing it. In this thread, he pushed, he got pushback (AND a free Lee Dorsey pic!) and then for whatever reason took his ball and go home. Too bad, but his choice all the way. I kept giving context, he kept on getting pissy and making it person about me and Larry (mostly me, but the idea that Larry and I were conspiring against him was jsut really, REAALY, dumb. As for the whole gun thing...it's a fact of life, now and historically. And as far as "resistance"...guns and resistance go hand in hand. I mentioned the Panthers as an example, and you can go to the other side today, what with the White Nationalists. And that Allison Miller clip is still lame as fuck, musically and rhetorically. I will say this, though - anybody who feels uncomfortable with the mere mention of guns in a political (or otehr context), I am sorry for you, because you are really NOT ready for modern life in all its facets. And I say that with a great deal of sadness, really. But oh well. Now, am I armed or not? Unless you come into my house uninvited, you'll never know. One way or the other. So let me now ask - who here will be attempting to come into my house uninvited? Let me know so I can feel threatened. Totally understood what you meant and I'll say it again: Its ludicrous to think Jim was threatening Paul in any way shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, soulpope said: You can still reach out to Paul via the forum`s communication function .... But doesn’t he have to check in here to see it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted May 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said: But doesn’t he have to check in here to see it? No, just send him a "message" .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dan Gould said: Totally understood what you meant and I'll say it again: Its ludicrous to think Jim was threatening Paul in any way shape or form. You and Jim can remain as tone deaf as you wish, but five posters here are telling you otherwise. How could that possibly be if in fact it were “ludicrous”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 Even if you don’t think you threatened him or even if an objective read is that you didn’t Jim, don’t you think it would smooth the waters if you contacted him and said something like I’m sorry if tempers got heated and you got upset, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 Hell, I have his personal email, he has mine. I've not heard from him, nor him from me. Again - this is the first I've heard that he felt "threatened", literally threatened. I really have to wonder now if maybe he's getting to a mental state where delusions start taking root. God, I hope now. If I had know that (and if there's nothing to know, so much the better), I'd not have engaged him at all. As it is, I thought we were just playing Nolan Ryan again. He's certainly welcome back here at any time, but all he has to do is show up when he wants to and start posting again. That'll work just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted May 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 Like mentioned, sorry can work wonders .... and like so often (in business or privtae life) you don`t even be serious about it .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, soulpope said: No, just send him a "message" .... That'll only work if he has his PM settings set to send him an email notification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted May 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 Just now, JSngry said: That'll only work if he has his PM settings set to send him an email notification. It worked for me earlier today after my thread opening and the first post about the potential background ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 If you're saying that you sent him a PM and he responded, then either he got an email notification, or else he's checking in invisibly (which is an option). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 And now we blame all of this on Paul’s mental faculties. You are a truly disgusting human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 So if he is checking in invisibly, here's a sorry: Hey Paul, sorry if I freaked you out so badly that you felt that I was gonna come after you in person. That was not my intent. It's a long way from Texas to where you live, and I got waaaaaaaayyyyy too much other shit to do have even the slightest interest or inclination in doing anything even remotely like what it appears you got afraid of. Again. sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, JSngry said: I really have to wonder now if maybe he's getting to a mental state where delusions start taking root. Really? How does it come to this that you feel you need to question someone's mental health with no apparent evidence? Keep digging, the hole's obviously not big enough yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 Ok, I wondered about saying that. But early on, people were worried about him because of his age, and it's not unreasonable to worry about an older guy's mental health as well as his physical health. And yeah, I worry about him too. Irrational fearfulness is one of those things you watch for as people age. Not unlike guns, a sad but true reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, JSngry said: sorry if I freaked you out so badly that you felt that I was gonna come after you in person. You really don't get it, do you? Or maybe you do but you're being deliberately obtuse. Threats don't need to be achievable to be unpleasant, even disconcerting and unnecessary in a forum that should have a level of decent behaviour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 And I've never - never - know Paul to delete anything that was said in his most contentious moments. That is, historically, very UN-Paul-like. 1 minute ago, mjazzg said: You really don't get it, do you? Or maybe you do but you're being deliberately obtuse. Threats don't need to be achievable to be unpleasant, even disconcerting and unnecessary in a forum that should have a level of decent behaviour And you don't get it that some people have a higher threshold of what feels "threatening" than do others? If the pupose of this forum is to learn, that's something else to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 Yes, now it’s all so very UN-Paul-like. Gents, I guess we have our culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted May 12, 2019 Report Share Posted May 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, JSngry said: Ok, I wondered about saying that. But early on, people were worried about him because of his age, and it's not unreasonable to worry about an older guy's mental health as well as his physical health. And yeah, I worry about him too. Irrational fearfulness is one of those things you watch for as people age. Not unlike guns, a sad but true reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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