Baseball season started!

[ghost of miles]

(with manly effort, resists urge to take jab at BoSox) B)

Edited July 14, 2004 by ghost of miles

[BERIGAN]

(with manly effort, resists urge to take jab at BoSox) B)

Yeah like Ha, Ha! You don't have the resources the Evil Yankees have!

[BERIGAN]

Astros fire Williams; Garner named interim manager

When has a team ever really bounced back from firing their manager mid-season? I know it's happened, but it's not coming to mind.

Well, it was earlier than mid season, but last year the Marlins sure turned it around...Phill Garner has a terrible record as manager, but he never has had a chance with a good team, could be interesting....

[ghost of miles]

(with manly effort, resists urge to take jab at BoSox)  B)

Yeah like Ha, Ha! You don't have the resources the Evil Yankees have!

No, no, nothing so crude as that... rather a pleasant inquiry as to the significance of recounting any past exploits of said team, owing to... ahhh, don't want to goad the Gouldster.

[Dan Gould]

Regardless of the ultimate outcome, I don't think anyone would not count the '88 Sox as an example of a team that switched managers in the middle of the season and had an extraordinary result after.

The team won 19 of 20-did the Yankees do that with Bob Lemon? Don't think so. They just got healthy and the Red Sox started slumping, and they had the rest of the season to catch up. The Sox went on an incredible tear and took over first place and didn't relinquish it the rest of the way.

[BERIGAN]

Somehow, in spite of lousy pitching, and Chipper Jones hitting around .220, the Braves are tied for first! Yes, the division is weak, and it is July, but Bobby Cox is a better manager than most think he is, perhaps the best....at least til the playoffs role along!

[Soulstation1]

the d-cakes really suck, they might not win another game this season..........

this time they will lose at least 20 games in a row

they only chance is if the unit pitches another no-hitter

barry took the last night off at bank one, glad i didn't go

vladamir guererro (spelling) might be the best player out there

ss1

[Soulstation1]

d-cakes losing streak continues

good to see someone try and do some damage to a-rod's face. pretty m-fer

you can almost stick a fork in the cubs and red sox

the indians are at .500

the dodgers are playin' some ball. third best record in the league, behind the yanks and cards

ss1

[Dan Gould]

you can almost stick a fork in the cubs and red sox

Uh, the Red Sox have a half game lead in the Wild Card and just won an emotional series over the Yankees.

I'd lay even odds that in September, this weekend will be recognized as the Red Sox' season turning point.

[Soulstation1]

cubs and sox are both about 10 games out of first today.

pre-season, both teams were expected to win their divisions in some magazines

if the sox get the wild card, i think they'd play the yanks in the first round

i hate the yanks but you'd have to give them the edge vs sox.

they have the best record in mlb

d-cakes are around 28 games outta first and fading fast

ss1

[catesta]

the d-cakes really suck, they might not win another game this season..........

this time they will lose at least 20 games in a row

they only chance is if the unit pitches another no-hitter

They really, really suck.

Looks like Johnson will be gone by the end of the week.

Bastards!

[Soulstation1]

chris

are we are still going to a game this season?

don't let me down, maybe the giants series in the middle of september?

let me know

ss1

[Dan Gould]

cubs and sox are both about 10 games out of first today.

pre-season, both teams were expected to win their divisions in some magazines

if the sox get the wild card, i think they'd play the yanks in the first round

i hate the yanks but you'd have to give them the edge vs sox.

they have the best record in mlb

d-cakes are around 28 games outta first and fading fast

ss1

C'mon Jeff, get your facts right:

its 7 and a half games out, not ten

If the team with the best league record and the wild card team come from the same division, they do NOT meet in the first round of the play-offs. (Yankees had the best record last year, who did they play in the play-offs? the Central winner. Sox played the A's.)

And even if they did meet in the first round of the playoffs, why would you give the Yankees an edge if the Sox could conceivably pitch Schilling and Pedro for four of the five games?

Even one of the clowns on Baseball Tonite said the Sox are better built for a short series than the Yanks.

And the Yankees may have the best record, but it covers up gigantic problems, from starting pitching, to any reliever not named Quantrill, Gordon or Rivera (who are grossly overworked and the first two are sucking wind), to Giambi who is literally a shadow of his former self; Bernie at .235 and struggling to reach 70 RBI's for the year.

IN short, there are good reasons why the Yankees are absolutely desperate to get the Unit.

[Dan Gould]

And one other thing: why favor the Yankees in any series with the Sox?

So far, there have been four series between them, and the Sox have won three of them. They lead head-to-head, 8-4, with seven games left between them. To win the season series, the Yanks have to win 6 of those seven games.

[MartyJazz]

And one other thing: why favor the Yankees in any series with the Sox?

So far, there have been four series between them, and the Sox have won three of them. They lead head-to-head, 8-4, with seven games left between them. To win the season series, the Yanks have to win 6 of those seven games.

Long time Yankee fan here. (Best thing my father ever did for me back in.....well, let's just say it was BEFORE the Dodgers had ever beaten the Yanks in a World Series).

The reason you favor the Yanks over the Red Sox is that when the money is on the line, the Yanks historically have found a way to beat the Sox. Yogi once said to Bernie Williams, "Don't worry about these guys. They haven't beaten us in 80 years". Obviously not completely true, the Sox have won a few pennants, if no World Series, since 1918 but I'm sure you get my point.

As far as your observations about Yankee pitching, I'm afraid I have to agree. And you can add that Contreras has to be the worst $32 million investment ever made in sports. Watched him with dread last night and sure enough, he proved to me, he does not have what it takes to pitch in pinstripes (much less Yankee grays on the road). For my part, I'd love to see the Yanks part with Giambi for a top notch pitcher (not 41 year old Randy J) but I'm sure Giambi's contract allows him to veto any deal.

[Dan Gould]

I had a feeling about where your baseball loyalties were .... guess we can put both national pastimes, politics and baseball, aside now!

I certainly understand your point about what happens when its on the line, but the flaws that allowed last year's debacle no longer exist. This year's Sox team is much improved in critical areas; what's missing is an effective Derek Lowe, and the swagger and confidence that last year's team had. And I feel pretty good for the moment that at minimum, the latter is back, if the latter and the former are back, I think the Sox can easily make the playoffs again, even if they can't overcome the Yanks in the division.

As for Giambi, I don't know if he has a no-trade clause, but the fact is that no one would take on his contract anyway, even if he still had the strength to clobber the ball. I read somewhere today that Giambi could even miss the remainder of the year-over another two months, the Yanks will come to love Tony Clark's defense, loathe his strikeouts and inconsistent home run output. They need an effective Giambi in the lineup, and they haven't had that for over a year and a half now.

Last thing I'll mention: there was an article recently about the relationship between runs scored, runs allowed, and the resultin "expected wins". The Sox actually beat the Yanks by about 80 runs on this measure. And since over the course of a season, things even out, this measure is an excellent predictor of future performance. So, if your team has a better than expected record, you can expect lower performance in the future; but if you're team isn't winning as it should be, the stats suggest that will change.

All of which is to say that the Yankees are exceeding their expected wins, the Sox are below their expected wins. I am quite confident there will be a significant tightening of the division race.

[Soulstation1]

imo

if the yanks finish with the best record in mlb, how could they not be favored vs anyone they play?

say the sox finish 10 games out, then come the play-offs and the sox are favored vs yanks? i doubt it

imo

ss1

Edited July 26, 2004 by Soulstation1

[Dave James]

Unless the Yankees are willing to trade some of their front line guys, the Unit will not being going to New York. The Yanks farm system is devoid of anyone that might possibly help the D-backs for at least three years, and not even a team as desperate as Arizona would be willing to stick their collective necks out that far. Anaheim has the most to offer, but I'm hearing that Johnson is really only interesed in going to New York. Stay tuned.

I think it was a major mistake for Torre to start Contreras yesterday. The Red Sox have beaten him like a rented mule every time they've squared off and what with Contreras just starting to resemble the pitcher they thought they had signed for $32 mil, I'd have held him out to avoid any damage to his psyche-on-the-mend. They're going to need him in the post season and what happened Sunday isn't going to do squick for his confidence.

I just hope A-Rod hasn't inadvertantly pumped new life into what was, up to Saturday, one of the most moribund franchises in the AL. Francona was talking after the game like it was exactly the kind of cathartic event that they needed to bring them together. Hey, Tito...Booby...news flash for you...that's your job.

Up over and out.

Edited July 26, 2004 by Dave James

[Dan Gould]

I think it was a major mistake for Torre to start Contreras yesterday. The Red Sox have beaten him like a rented mule every time they've squared off and what with Contreras just starting to resemble the pitcher they thought they had signed for $32 mil, I'd have held him out to avoid any damage to his psyche-on-the-mend. They're going to need him in the post season and what happened Sunday isn't going to do squick for his confidence.

So, no point in giving him another taste of October baseball? No point in finding out if he could continue his recent string of excellent starts against the Red Sox? Does this mean that if the Sox face the Yanks in the play-offs, Torre should leave the 32 million dollar Cuban off the roster?

[catesta]

Unless the Yankees are willing to trade some of their front line guys, the Unit will not being going to New York. The Yanks farm system is devoid of anyone that might possibly help the D-backs for at least three years, and not even a team as desperate as Arizona would be willing to stick their collective necks out that far. Anaheim has the most to offer, but I'm hearing that Johnson is really only interesed in going to New York. Stay tuned.

He's been flopping around on where he would want to go. St. Louis surfaced last week as one place to consider seriously.

I really don't see New York as an option for the D'Backs for the reasons you mentioned.

[catesta]

chris

are we are still going to a game this season?

don't let me down, maybe the giants series in the middle of september?

let me know

ss1

I'm still in.

[BERIGAN]

Unless the Yankees are willing to trade some of their front line guys, the Unit will not being going to New York.  The Yanks farm system is devoid of anyone that might possibly help the D-backs for at least three years, and not even a team as desperate as Arizona would be willing to stick their collective necks out that far.  Anaheim has the most to offer, but I'm hearing that Johnson is really only interesed in going to New York.  Stay tuned.

He's been flopping around on where he would want to go. St. Louis surfaced last week as one place to consider seriously.

I really don't see New York as an option for the D'Backs for the reasons you mentioned.

What I don't understand is why so many "experts" keep saying the Diamondbacks should keep him...as bad as this team is right now, he isn't going to be pitching for a contender, at least next year, in AZ, and he is 40 for God's sake! Find a way to talk him into going to the Cards, or the Angels get some fine young talent...you don't build around a 40 something player....Of course, if he and Shilling could put their differences aside, man....now that would be a rotation...the one they have now, just doesn't seem like a world series winning one, does it Dan?

[Dan Gould]

Of course, if he and Shilling could put their differences aside, man....now that would be a rotation...the one they have now, just doesn't seem like a world series winning one, does it Dan?

#1, reports of their huge differences or Randy hating Curt are probably extremely overblown. They live nearby and their wives and children are friends.

As far as being a World Series rotation, why not? What's the difference between the Arizona rotation that won and this one? As great as Randy is, does he have Pedro's lifetime winning percentage??? Pedro and Schilling can easily win a series. What they need is an effective Lowe and for Wakefield to do his stuff. You don't think the Sox win last year if it was Pedro, Schilling and Wake against the Yanks? Wake beat them almost singlehandedly, which is what made the end of that series so painful: one ball that doesn't knuckle, and its over.

So, yeah, Beri, I'll take this rotation in a heartbeat, so long as its the Lowe we saw last night.

[BERIGAN]

Of course, if he and Shilling could put their differences aside, man....now that would be a rotation...the one they have now, just doesn't seem like a world series winning one, does it Dan?

#1, reports of their huge differences or Randy hating Curt are probably extremely overblown. They live nearby and their wives and children are friends.

As far as being a World Series rotation, why not? What's the difference between the Arizona rotation that won and this one? As great as Randy is, does he have Pedro's lifetime winning percentage??? Pedro and Schilling can easily win a series. What they need is an effective Lowe and for Wakefield to do his stuff. You don't think the Sox win last year if it was Pedro, Schilling and Wake against the Yanks? Wake beat them almost singlehandedly, which is what made the end of that series so painful: one ball that doesn't knuckle, and its over.

So, yeah, Beri, I'll take this rotation in a heartbeat, so long as its the Lowe we saw last night.

What's the difference between the Arizona rotation that won and this one?

That one was 3 years younger!

The thing about Randy, at least in the past, is he doesn't lose his stuff as the game goes on, like Clemens, and other greats..Pedro looked like he was pitching on guts alone during the last playoffs, I thought for sure he had some arm trouble, what will keep him fresher this post season?

Randy said in one story when Shilling claimed he couldn't reach him during the All star break...there was reason he had his number changed...I thought they got along fine before I heard stuff like that..a 3 way with Nomar going to the cubs seems like a great idea...they can't let the Yankees somehow get him, they need to block/trade like the Yankees do...

[catesta]

#1, reports of their huge differences or Randy hating Curt are probably extremely overblown. They live nearby and their wives and children are friends.

Agree.