First known use of "Downtown" when referring to the NYC avant scene of the late '70s-early '80s?

[JSngry]

35 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

Yeah that's what I mean. It is weird that they weren't playing together more. 

Not weird at all. Social factors and different notions of ultimate musical visions.

Just because you're there doesn't mean you're there.

[T.D.]

I read the Parker biography Universal Tonality (by Cisco Bradley) a few years ago and don't recall many (if any) mentions of Parker playing with white "Downtown" artists. But I read it through interlibrary loan, my recollections can't be trusted, and I don't have it on hand to check. Just requested the book again, so by next week I'll be able to research that issue.

Edited April 28 by T.D.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, he did, but it might not be in the book. 

9 hours ago, JSngry said:

Not weird at all. Social factors and different notions of ultimate musical visions.

Just because you're there doesn't mean you're there.

exactly.

[T.D.]

12 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Yeah, he did, but it might not be in the book. 

I'll have to refresh my memory. Drawback of downsizing and shrinking the stacks of books around the house.

[T.D.]

On 4/28/2026 at 2:01 PM, JSngry said:

Not weird at all. Social factors and different notions of ultimate musical visions.

Just because you're there doesn't mean you're there.

 

On 4/28/2026 at 6:20 PM, T.D. said:

I read the Parker biography Universal Tonality (by Cisco Bradley) a few years ago and don't recall many (if any) mentions of Parker playing with white "Downtown" artists. But I read it through interlibrary loan, my recollections can't be trusted, and I don't have it on hand to check. Just requested the book again, so by next week I'll be able to research that issue.

 

On 4/28/2026 at 11:25 PM, clifford_thornton said:

Yeah, he did, but it might not be in the book. 

I dug up the book and indeed there's no mention (AFAICT) of Parker playing with "Downtown" artists. Probably didn't fit in with the flow/theme due to the factors Jim mentioned.

[clifford_thornton]

right. Well, there's some recorded evidence!

[T.D.]

Straining my eyes at the Discography appendix, these stood out:

Derek Bailey, John Zorn, Wm. Parker, Harras (Avant) (1995 release) Derek Bailey ● John Zorn ● William Parker – Harras – CD (Album), 1995 [r494028] | Discogs

Wayne Horvitz, Simple Facts (Theater for Your Mother) (1980 release) Wayne Horvitz – Simple Facts | Releases | Discogs

Edited 35 minutes ago by T.D.