what if chris spedding joined miles...

[Guest akanalog]

i don't know why i was thinking of this-i guess i was listening to some early british fusion and i really like chris spedding's playing. i know he went down the tubes quickly with his rock star aspirations but i was wondering-what if miles had become enamored of spedding rather than john mclaughlin. i like what spedding was doing better back then-slower and tastier, to me. but the two guitarists were sort of in the same orbit-i wonder if fate had been different if spedding would have been a plus over mclaughlin or not in miles world.

[BFrank]

Hard to say what that would have been like. He did a nice job with Jack Bruce on "Harmony Row", though.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Oh that's easy - if history were different, it would be Miles Davis who wrote the biography of Ian Carr instead of the other way around.

Mike

[ep1str0phy]

I'm a big fan of Spedding's playing--"Harmony Row", "Songs for a Tailor", and the Battered Ornament sides are among my faves. That being said, MF (however droll) has a point... things would be different. And? They'd sound different, that's for sure... but so would the Miles Davis Quintet feat. Eric Dolphy. Missed opportunity? Moot point?

I'll bite anyway. Spedding has never had McLaughlin's technical facility, although he's a fine player (and by reputation somewhat workmanlike in a more conservative jazz context). Nonetheless, he's always been phenomenally creative--pioneering rhythm/lead jazz-rock guitar, working with odd effects (drones, feedback, heavy overdrive, trebly wah-wah, wah-wah slide, etc.), and copping the odd Sharrock-esque trill long before it was popular. Spedding would have fit into the electric Miles context just fine--at least as well as the majority of guitar players who came through the MD groups. Some live dates with Jack Bruce (feat. Graham Bond, John Marshall, etc.) showcase a strong mastery of the Hendrix-breed skronk that Miles was so fond of. So, sonically, I think the mix would have worked (maybe making things a little bluesier).

Then again, there would have been the personality clashes... and we probably wouldn't have those great Bruce/Ornament albums sitting around.

Edited October 25, 2005 by ep1str0phy

[bertrand]

Better yet, Miles could have helped Quincy Troupe write his autobiography. He would have just lifted quotes from previous Troupe biographies and attributed them to Troupe himself.

Bertrand.

[clifford_thornton]

Spedding... only if Pip Pyle was somehow part of the deal!

[7/4]

Spedding... only if Pip Pyle was somehow part of the deal!

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and Dave Stewart too.

[clifford_thornton]

And Amanda Parsons could contribute backing vocals!

[A Lark Ascending]

There's a great bit in the liners to the reissue of Mike Gibbs' 'Just Ahead' about Spedding annoying the more serious-minded jazzers in the band. Rather than towing the line he turned up to the band bus one night in a bright pink suit.

So I suspect he'd have fitted in just fine to Miles' spandex period.

It would also have meant that in 1976, instead of retiring, Miles would have gone punk!

Agharta...Pangaea...Motorbikin'

There's a logic there somewhere.

[sidewinder]

and maybe a link to David Essex and 'Gonna Make You a Starrrrr'

[sidewinder]

Two things concerning John McLaughlin in the late 1960s spring immediately to mind. First of all his very solid grounding in R&B (with Alexis Korner, Georgie Fame etc.) and commercial studio work - which must of itself have been of great appeal to Miles. Secondly his incredible stylistic versatility and ability (almost chameleon-like) to fit into numerous 1960s UK jazz contexts. Really everything from straight ahead mainstream (e.g. Sandy Brown's 'Hair at Its Hairiest') through to Kenny Wheeler 'Windmill Tilter' (also on Fontana) and Gordon Beck's 'Experiments In Pops'. On each of these, 'Johnny' McLaughlin plays a very key role in the success of the sessions.

I suspect also that his willingness to be 'moulded' by Miles and his music (along with all of the plaudits from Tony Williams) played no small part in his eventual selection.

Spedding also had a superb rock/commercial grounding prior to great work on such sessions as Mike Westbrook's 'Love Songs' (his work on this particular album is outstanding) and Neil Ardley's 'Greek Variations', for example. Less of a 'mouldable chameleon' though, I suspect, in the jazz context. It would have been fascinating to hear though !

Edited October 26, 2005 by sidewinder

[7/4]

Two things concerning John McLaughlin in the late 1960s spring immediately to mind. First of all his very solid grounding in R&B (with Alexis Korner, Georgie Fame etc.) and commercial studio work - which must of itself have been of great appeal to Miles. Secondly his incredible stylistic versatility and ability (almost chameleon-like) to fit into numerous 1960s UK jazz contexts. Really everything from straight ahead mainstream (e.g. Sandy Brown's 'Hair at Its Hairiest') through to Kenny Wheeler 'Windmill Tilter' (also on Fontana) and Gordon Beck's 'Experiments In Pops'. On each of these, McLaughlin plays a very key role in the success of the sessions.

I suspect also that his willingness to be 'moulded' by Miles and his music played no small part in his eventual selection.

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I thought Tony Williams played a recording of them playing together for Miles.

[sidewinder]

Two things concerning John McLaughlin in the late 1960s spring immediately to mind. First of all his very solid grounding in R&B (with Alexis Korner, Georgie Fame etc.) and commercial studio work - which must of itself have been of great appeal to Miles. Secondly his incredible stylistic versatility and ability (almost chameleon-like) to fit into numerous 1960s UK jazz contexts. Really everything from straight ahead mainstream (e.g. Sandy Brown's 'Hair at Its Hairiest') through to Kenny Wheeler 'Windmill Tilter' (also on Fontana) and Gordon Beck's 'Experiments In Pops'. On each of these, McLaughlin plays a very key role in the success of the sessions.

I suspect also that his willingness to be 'moulded' by Miles and his music played no small part in his eventual selection.

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I thought Tony Williams played a recording of them playing together for Miles.

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Yep, just editted in a bit about T. Williams.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I doubt Miles ever heard those early McLaughlin recordings.

Mike

[sidewinder]

I doubt Miles ever heard those early McLaughlin recordings.

Mike

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Yes, I would agree. They were pretty obscure even over here. The only one which got any kind of exposure at the time was 'Extrapolation'.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

What I was talking about were the very obscure sideman appearances, particularly the non-jazz things. It is at least conceivable to me that MD *could* have heard Extrapolation.

Mike

[sidewinder]

What I was talking about were the very obscure sideman appearances, particularly the non-jazz things. It is at least conceivable to me that MD *could* have heard Extrapolation.

Mike

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Yes, those were the sessions I was assuming you had in mind. I guess 'Extrapolation' had a wider (possibly US?) issue via Polydor (after the initial pressings on Marmelade) so yes, it's quite possible Miles could possibly have heard it.

Zero chance I guess of Miles ever hearing Sandy Brown's 'Hair at it's Hairiest'. (No doubt he would have had something very witty to say about the wild cover art).

Edited October 27, 2005 by sidewinder

[bertrand]

Miles was supposedly one of only 7 people or so who heard Shirley Horn's Ashes And Embers when it first came out, so anything is possible.

I also have a theory (exposed elsewhere on this forum) that Miles heard Mother Ship before he recorded Bitches' Brew. I need to follow up on that.

Bertrand.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

The case of Shirley Horn is quite a different situation - Miles was specifically introduced to Horn by her manager, the ex-bassist John Levy (who first heard Horn's album on the radio, so it couldn't have been all that obscure):

http://www.devradowrite.com/?page_id=175

Plus we are talking about within the USA, within the jazz scene, etc.

Mike