Les Tresors du Jazz

[ASNL77]

I got in touch with 'Le Chant du Monde' who produce these little gems. I congratulated them for the high standard of their work and I also asked them about a 1958 set. Here is their answer. I have tried to translate in my best English. I hope it comes across fine.

Bonjour

merci pour vos compliments et vous encouragements que nous retransmettons à André Francis et Jean Schwarz.

Nous rencontrons de très grosses difficultés dans la poursuite de cette collection. Il ne s'agit aucunement d'un problème éditorial. L'année 1958 existe aujourd'hui à l'état de projet d'un coffret de 15 CD et une fois encore André Francis et Jean Schwarz ont réalisé des prouesses.

Nous nous heurtons au problème du prix.

nos coffrets de 10 CD sont vendus en général autour de 39 € prix public... On peut difficilement faire mieux dès lors que l'on paye les réalisateurs et les ayants droits (auteurs, compositeurs, interprètes) .... Ce seuil "psychologique de 39 €" à ne pas dépasser, nous empêche d'ailleurs d'illustrer nos livrets comme nous le souhaiterions (les droits photos sont devenus exorbitants et même les documents les plus anciens appartiennent désormais à des "agences").

Les ventes de nos coffrets, qui ont été acceptables jusqu'au volume 4, sont devenus dérisoires depuis l'importation massive de coffret d'apparence identique (même boitier, mêmes nombres de CD... MAIS SANS LIVRET - ce que le "consommateur" ne peut pas percevoir de l'extérieur).

Ces coffrets (provenance italie et chine - des pays qui ne respectent pas le droit d'auteur et qui n'assument que le coût strict de la fabrication) sont vendus aux alentours de 10 € prix public....

Aujourd'hui, la plupart des revendeurs qui sont tombés dans le piège du "tout à petit prix" refuse de référencer nos coffrets au delà du premier mois de parution.... Nos ventes ont été subitement divisées par 10.

Nous ne savons pas à ce jour si nous allons pouvoir continuer....

Nous étudions un autre type de présentation qui, sans coûter plus cher, nous distinguerait de la masse des produits de supermarché qui envahissent tout.

cordialement

Hello,

Many thanks for your encouragements and for your kind words regarding 'Les Tresors du Jazz' collection that we will pass on to André Francis and Jean Schwarz.

We are currently facing huge difficulties carrying on with the series. Our problems are not editorial as the 1958 currently exists at the state of project of 15 CDs and once again Jean Schwarz and André Francis have made wonders.

We are struggling with the price.

All our sets sell for 39 euros. There is no way for us to lower the cost as we have to pay the producers and people owning the copyright (authors, composers and artists). The psychological barrier of 39 euros not to be crossed prevents us from illustrating our booklets as we would like to (photos copyrights have become extortionate and even the most ancient documents now belong to agencies who charge us a fortune to publish them.

The sales numbers of 'Les tresors du jazz' have been acceptable up to the fourth set but they have plummeted since because of the mass imports of sets that look identical coming from China or Italy with no booklet (which you can't tell until you open the box). These countries do not pay copyrights and only have to meet the cost related to the making of those sets. Those boxes sell for about 10 euros.

Nowadays, retailers tend to refuse to stock and sell our boxes for more than a month after their release and, as a result, our sales have been divided by ten! We really don't know if we will be able to carry on with the series in those conditions.

We are currently trying to rethink the presentation of those sets in order to distinguish ourselves from those cheap products which have recently invaded supermarkets and stifled the market.

Best wishes.

Edited August 24, 2009 by ASNL77

[neveronfriday]

Sad, but more than understandable.

[gmonahan]

Seems like Mosaic could try marketing them through True Blue. 'Course, that wouldn't create a lot more demand, but some at least?

greg mo

[sidewinder]

I've got my eye on a '56 set. I'll pick it up over the next week or so. Sad news there in that email to Yves, sign of the times.

[Tom Storer]

That's infuriating.

I don't know the first thing about marketing but I wonder if the "psychological barrier" isn't an obstacle. They might sell more by pricing them higher instead of competing with those who kill the market by underpricing. People will think "These sets are of rare value and are worth paying for" instead of "Great, cheap jazz! But wait, over here there's a box that's even cheaper!"

BWTFDIK?

[Big Beat Steve]

NM (Not Much )

... or else Mosaic would be selling like hotcakes to the general jazz public at large (i.e. MUCH farther beyond hardcore collectors and those to whom having a huge run of Mosaics seems to be some sort of status symbol ).

Please do not underestimate the fact that complilations like this invariably put off more advanced collectors who tend to have a lot of the music on other releases (often the entire respective albums). If you have to live with a good deal of duplicates you will only go for it anyway if the price is a steal, making it worthwhile to buy the music for the "remainder".

But anyway ... maybe somebody can set me wise: Is there actually a ripoff set out there that undercuts the price of those Tresors series (39 euros or so for TEN CDs isnt' bad in anybody's money and certainly good value for money) significantly and AT THE SAME TIME duplicates even their layout, including the VERY SAME box set "cover" artwork?

I remember perusing a few of those sets while at the FNAC in Paris and regretting the huge, huge amount of duplicates with what I already have in my own collection, but the concept really is worthwhile for those who are content with getting a fair sampling and do not want to go for the full albums of all too many of the artists featured.

And now, reading all this, I wonder whether I was looking at the real thing or not.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Big Beat Steve

[jostber]

This is a great series, hope it will continue with new sets.

[Tom Storer]

Is there actually a ripoff set out there that undercuts the price of those Tresors series (39 euros or so for TEN CDs isnt' bad in anybody's money and certainly good value for money) significantly and AT THE SAME TIME duplicates even their layout, including the VERY SAME box set "cover" artwork?

I've never noticed look-alike ripoffs to this series, at least not in the FNAC. But I don't know, maybe they sell them at Carrefour and Auchan and other French hypermarkets, or other places where a large public looks for discounts. I've read that hypermarkets account for a surprisingly large proportion of book and CD sales.

[ASNL77]

NM (Not Much )

... or else Mosaic would be selling like hotcakes to the general jazz public at large (i.e. MUCH farther beyond hardcore collectors and those to whom having a huge run of Mosaics seems to be some sort of status symbol ).

Please do not underestimate the fact that complilations like this invariably put off more advanced collectors who tend to have a lot of the music on other releases (often the entire respective albums). If you have to live with a good deal of duplicates you will only go for it anyway if the price is a steal, making it worthwhile to buy the music for the "remainder".

But anyway ... maybe somebody can set me wise: Is there actually a ripoff set out there that undercuts the price of those Tresors series (39 euros or so for TEN CDs isnt' bad in anybody's money and certainly good value for money) significantly and AT THE SAME TIME duplicates even their layout, including the VERY SAME box set "cover" artwork?

I remember perusing a few of those sets while at the FNAC in Paris and regretting the huge, huge amount of duplicates with what I already have in my own collection, but the concept really is worthwhile for those who are content with getting a fair sampling and do not want to go for the full albums of all too many of the artists featured.

And now, reading all this, I wonder whether I was looking at the real thing or not.

I have never seen any ripoff sets of these series but I think that the person who sent me that email was referring to similar types of 'best of' sets they find it difficult to compete with. French supermarkets are now full of those extremely cheap sets of 5-10CDs and they appeal to people who don't care much about booklets or sound quality. I am not surprised that Le Chant du Monde are feeling the pinch.

Edited August 25, 2009 by ASNL77

[Tom Storer]

Yeah, that's what I thought it might be--the supermarkets. I never visit the CD section when I'm in a supermarket big enough to have one, so I haven't seen them; and for brick-and-mortar I go to the FNAC, and haven't seen them there.

Fucking supermarkets!

[Big Beat Steve]

Yes, I see what you mean, but would the other cheapo box sets that ASNL77 mentions really duplicate even half or most of those year-by-year series of these "Tresors du Jazz"? I admit those Tresors series are almost too generalistic for me (as I invariably have a lot of the music on those year-by-year sets in other formats, mostly vinyl) but their contents still follow a special policy and I cannot think of any cheapo sets that go virtually the same route. And if they feel the competition by those "Best of Jazz" or "Best of Cool" (or whatever) box sets then it can only be among those customers who were not searching for the music on those Tresors series anyway?

I mean, if you were in the market for a box set of the Keynote or the JATP recordings, would you settle for a "Best of the Swing Era" box set just because it costs only half or one third the price? Only if you you were the most casual listener with a VERY, VERY superficial interest in swing music (or a total newbie). So ... ?

Nevertheless, all the best to this project. They deserve it.

After all this problem of specialist box sets being ripped off is a common one. I've shelled out quite a bit for Fremeaux Associés sets, for example, through the years (they are relatively expensive for a 2-CD set, but their more specialist sets incude material really very rarely found anywhere else, so it must be bitter for them to see a good deal of the contents of some of their sets being ripped off by other European - not Andorran - box set labels even promoted relatively frequently here on this very site. )

Edited August 26, 2009 by Big Beat Steve

[sidewinder]

so it must be bitter for them to see a good deal of the contents of some of their sets being ripped off by other European - not Andorran - box set labels even promoted relatively frequently here on this very site. )

Proper?

[Tom Storer]

if they feel the competition by those "Best of Jazz" or "Best of Cool" (or whatever) box sets then it can only be among those customers who were not searching for the music on those Tresors series anyway?

I mean, if you were in the market for a box set of the Keynote or the JATP recordings, would you settle for a "Best of the Swing Era" box set just because it costs only half or one third the price? Only if you you were the most casual listener with a VERY, VERY superficial interest in swing music (or a total newbie). So ... ?

I gather that that's just it--they count on most of their sales being not to jazz geeks like us but to the general public, people who have a certain interest in jazz but few or no CDs covering the period in question. Us jazz geeks make up most of the remaining core of faithful purchasers. It's the more casual clientele that can be led away by the siren song of even cheaper compilations, and they need that clientele if they're going to break even. That's how I understand it, anyway.

[brownie]

This does not seem to be part of the Trésors du Jazz series but the 25CD box was produced by André Francis and Jean Schwartz. It has just been released.

Looks like a beautiful box at a very reasonable price.

L'Histoire du Piano Jazz

Hi Volkher! You should enjoy this

[Van Basten II]

This does not seem to be part of the Trésors du Jazz series but the 25CD box was produced by André Francis and Jean Schwartz. It has just been released.

Looks like a beautiful box at a very reasonable price.

L'Histoire du Piano Jazz

Hi Volkher! You should enjoy this

Is a tracklist available somewhere ?

[neveronfriday]

Yo, Guy!

Thanks for the heads up.

I have that puke-green "The History of Piano Jazz" released in 2003 ... I'll investigate this weekend how much overlap there is.

No matter what, that's a killer price for that number of CDs if they all indeed have the quality I've gotten accustomed to whenever I read "Francis & Schwarz".

I'm still in denial re the probable death of the Trésors series.

Loved it and hate to see it disappear.

Volkher

P.S.: I'm seriously considering heading to Paris in February of 2010 or, if impossible around that time, before June of 2010. Could you let me know here or via PM if you might be around (or know that you are spending longer periods away from Paris next year ... which I'm sure you're doing)? I'd love to meet up for one excellent bottle of French wine (my treat).

This does not seem to be part of the Trésors du Jazz series but the 25CD box was produced by André Francis and Jean Schwartz. It has just been released.

Looks like a beautiful box at a very reasonable price.

L'Histoire du Piano Jazz

Hi Volkher! You should enjoy this

Edited October 29, 2009 by neveronfriday

[neveronfriday]

P.S.: Hell, I just ordered it. At that price, the other 15 CDs are surely worth it.

[brownie]

This does not seem to be part of the Trésors du Jazz series but the 25CD box was produced by André Francis and Jean Schwartz. It has just been released.

Looks like a beautiful box at a very reasonable price.

L'Histoire du Piano Jazz

Hi Volkher! You should enjoy this

Is a tracklist available somewhere ?

Not yet. Not even at Le Chant du Monde website...

[Van Basten II]

Yeah, i checked on that site too, weird i could not manage to even find an entry about this set on Le chant du monde website.

When more details will appear let us know, or since we have people ordering it anyway, hopefully they'll clue us about the contents.

[neveronfriday]

Yeah, i checked on that site too, weird i could not manage to even find an entry about this set on Le chant du monde website.

When more details will appear let us know, or since we have people ordering it anyway, hopefully they'll clue us about the contents.

Shall do when it gets here.

Will take a while though.

Amazon.fr to Germany has never been very fast (but always reliable).

Sometimes France seems further away than the States.

And I only live a few miles away from the border between France and Germany.

[neveronfriday]

Well, was just notified that the box has been sent on its long and convoluted journey across a supposedly unified Europe.

Should be here next week.

[brownie]

Track lists for discs 1 and 2 of the box on the FNAC website.

[neveronfriday]

I received the box today.

That was fast.

I'm going to take some really quick and dirty photos of the back cover of each cardboard sleeve and post a link to the photos when done. Should be up in an hour the latest. Watch this space.

[neveronfriday]

I really don't have more than a few seconds until some time next week.

Here's the link. Should work for everyone. I tried to make the cover shots legible. If the Google web album starts as a slide show (I believe it always does), you can cancel that and then look at each photo individually. Try it.

The box itself looks nice and is the usual Harmonia Mund job. Cardboad box (in this case too big for what it's holding (was there supposed to be more or did they just buy a default-sized one?), a thick booklet and 25 CDs in plain cardboard slipcases.

I took some photos of the box wrapped and open, one or two of the front of some CDs and two booklet shots (disc 1 and 2 or sth like that). As usual, notes are in French (front of booklet) and English (back), and at the end there's a tabular A-Z artist index (artist, title, CD, page of bookle4t and rec. date).

I simply don't have time to see how much overlap there's between the first (puke green) Piano Jazz box mentioned above somewhere and this one, but I assume there must be. I just checked if CD1 of that box and CD 1 of this one are identical ... they are not.

Everything else has to wait a week. I'm simply too busy here ... sorry.

Link: Piano Jazz Box (Photos)

P.S.: If the photo is too small and when you are on the album page, there's a magnifying glass top right. Click on it and then "drag" the enlarged image by clicking into the photo, holding the mouse button down and, well, dragging. Try it.

Edited November 2, 2009 by neveronfriday

[Van Basten II]

Great work Neveronfriday