Bill Cosby on Dick Cavett Show 1973

[Mark Stryker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPgcQydWWeE

Was sent this wonderful clip today -- Bill Cosby telling a long story about trying to sit in with Sonny Stitt as a kid. Beyond the hilarious story -- and Cosby's hilarious storytelling -- I was struck by how hip you could be on a talk show in those days, especially on Cavett's show. Dig how Cosby warns him before he starts the story that it might be too inside for the room and Cavett's response is to go ahead, and then he takes about 8 minutes to tell the whole story.

MS

[Christiern]

In 1959-60, when I was a dj on an all-jazz station in Philly (WHAT-FM), I regularly received calls of complaints from "Bill", whenever I played pre-bop recordings (Armstrong's Hot Five, Bessie Smith, Fletcher Henderson, etc.). Bill would ask me when I was going to stop playing that "Mickey Mouse music," which he also sometimes called "Uncle Tom music." I was amazed that this guy couldn't hear the beauty of these recordings.

Several months later, I had moved on to WNEW in NYC and Cosby came to the station to promote his first comedy album. It was only then that I discovered who "Bill" was. Not long after that, we went through the initial period of black awareness and broadcasters scrambled to air programs that they were not likely to have aired a year or two earlier. I heard Bill Cosby narrate one of these network programs, reading a script that mentioned the rich black musical heritage that had made fun of.

Nothing "hip" about that, IMO.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Christiern

[Guest Bill Barton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPgcQydWWeE

Was sent this wonderful clip today -- Bill Cosby telling a long story about trying to sit in with Sonny Stitt as a kid. Beyond the hilarious story -- and Cosby's hilarious storytelling -- I was struck by how hip you could be on a talk show in those days, especially on Cavett's show. Dig how Cosby warns him before he starts the story that it might be too inside for the room and Cavett's response is to go ahead, and then he takes about 8 minutes to tell the whole story.

MS

Thanks for posting this clip! Yeah, those were the days. Actually being able to hear real jazz on network TV, not to mention real humor that doesn't dwell in the gutter or the toilet...

[John L]

In 1959-60, when I was a dj on an all-jazz station in Philly (WHAT-FM), I regularly received calls of complaints from "Bill", whenever I played pre-bop recordings (Armstrong's Hot Five, Bessie Smith, Fletcher Henderson, etc.). Bill would ask me when I was going to stop playing that "Mickey Mouse music," which he also sometimes called "Uncle Tom music." I was amazed that this guy couldn't hear the beauty of these recordings.

Several months later, I had moved on to WNEW in NYC and Cosby came to the station to promote his first comedy album. It was only then that I discovered who "Bill" was. Not long after that, we went through the initial period of black awareness and broadcasters scrambled to air programs that they were not likely to have aired a year or two earlier. I heard Bill Cosby narrate one of these network programs, reading a script that mentioned the rich black musical heritage that had made fun of.

Nothing "hip" about that, IMO.

I seem to recall other related disparaging statements by Cosby about the blues, although they were more from the social than musical point of view: "we need to leave the blues behind us once and for all."

[Christiern]

Yes and he has also, on several occasions, treated musicians unprofessionally in public. This is really not a nice person.

[Dan Gould]

I don't care if he's nice or not, hip enough to appreciate pre-bop music or not, or likes or hates the blues - that was a very funny story told by a very funny man.

[AllenLowe]

not a Cosby fan either - his blanket put-down of current-day black parenting, his blanket assault on hip hop, and not to mention his pattern of allegedly drugging women and than raping them - a few law suits point this out, as well as a detailed magazine story a few years back in which more thna a few women came forward to testify as to his actions - finding wannabe actresses and than taking advantage of them -

and his courtroom appearances of support for his good friend Martha Stewart -

Edited February 4, 2008 by AllenLowe

[Debra]

Christiern, Do you know how the jazz musicians who appeared on the Cosby Show in the 1980s were treated?

I always thought that the presentation of jazz musicians on that show was a mixed blessing. Jazz was presented as Dr. Cliff Huxtable's strange hobby, his eccentricity, and as something from the past, a museum art.

[7/4]

Christiern, Do you know how the jazz musicians who appeared on the Cosby Show in the 1980s were treated?

I always thought that the presentation of jazz musicians on that show was a mixed blessing. Jazz was presented as Dr. Cliff Huxtable's strange hobby, his eccentricity, and as something from the past, a museum art.

It was the 1980s.

[Mark Stryker]

Well, I didn't start this thread as a thumbs up or thumbs down referendum on Cosby, and I'm staying out of it. I thought the tale was funny and was especially interested in what the context of the telling says about the relative place of jazz in the culture.

However, I will add one thing in response to Debra's comment. I don't think jazz was presented at all as Dr. Huxtable's eccentricity or as a museum piece. In fact, the best part of the show as it related to jazz was that the music was seen not as weirdly exotic but simply as part of the everyday life of these people and ingrained into their culture. Cliff's father had been a professional trombonist. The family often went to hear jazz in clubs. The names of musicians like Miles Davis came up organically in dialogue. Theo had a poster of Wynton Marsalis in his room. I recall Cliff one time singing a big chunk of "Moody's Mood for Love." Etc. One of the great moments in the whole series actually was a spot at the end of one program when Cliff and Claire dance romantically to Coltrane -- "Dear Lord" if memory serves. The music is never named and nobody makes a big deal out of it. It's just there in the center of their home, as it is for many.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Mark Stryker

[7/4]

Theo had a poster of Wynton Marsalis in his room.

poor kid.

[Robert J]

Theo had a poster of Wynton Marsalis in his room.

poor kid.

It was the 1980s.

[7/4]

Theo had a poster of Wynton Marsalis in his room.

poor kid.

It was the 1980s.

Uh oh...

[analogak]

badfoot brown and the bunions bradford funeral and marching band is one of the best albums ever put down on wax.

[Free For All]

Cliff's father had been a professional trombonist.

Slide Hampton provided the sounds on the occasions when the elder Huxtable got his horn out.

[Debra]

Well, I didn't start this thread as a thumbs up or thumbs down referendum on Cosby, and I'm staying out of it. I thought the tale was funny and was especially interested in what the context of the telling says about the relative place of jazz in the culture.

However, I will add one thing in response to Debra's comment. I don't think jazz was presented at all as Dr. Huxtable's eccentricity or as a museum piece. In fact, the best part of the show as it related to jazz was that the music was seen not as weirdly exotic but simply as part of the everyday life of these people and ingrained into their culture. Cliff's father had been a professional trombonist. The family often went to hear jazz in clubs. The names of musicians like Miles Davis came up organically in dialogue. Theo had a poster of Wynton Marsalis in his room. I recall Cliff one time singing a big chunk of "Moody's Mood for Love." Etc. One of the great moments in the whole series actually was a spot at the end of one program when Cliff and Claire dance romantically to Coltrane -- "Dear Lord" if memory serves. The music is never named and nobody makes a big deal out of it. It's just there in the center of their home, as it is for many.

I was thinking of two shows in particular. In one, the entire family is going to go out to a jazz club together. The children complain to each other about having to do it, and one of them says to the others that it will be old time music, with no words, like going to a museum.

In another show, some of the adults are in the basement playing an old jazz LP on a 1950s style small portable record player. I think that one of the men puts a coin on the tone arm to balance it. They all fondly recall the days of listening to jazz on record players like that.

I also think that virtually every jazz artist who appeared on the show was over 60 years old. There was no presentation of young jazz artists, of younger people carrying on with the music and being someone closer in age to the children.

I do recall some of the nice jazz moments in other shows which you are talking about.

[7/4]

I also think that virtually every jazz artist who appeared on the show was over 60 years old.

They could have had Sun Ra on.

[randissimo]

Great story!!!

Yeah Bill !!!!

[Jim Alfredson]

That was a really funny story. Thanks for posting!

[Jim Alfredson]

Briefly, the story reminded me of a similar experience I had at a restaurant gig when I was at MSU. Wycliffe Gordon was a visiting professor and came out to the gig to sit in. He called, of course, Cherokee, but he called it off as a ballad. "Whew!" I thought to myself. He played the head and solo'd at the slow tempo and then signaled for us to drop out at the end of the second chorus...

... whereupon he began playing at a blistering tempo and signaled for us to come back in at said blistering tempo! He took a few more choruses and then pointed at me to solo next. FUCK! I'm barely keeping the bassline going at that tempo!

Needless to say, I think I took one or two choruses and passed the buck onto Joe, barely getting out alive (or still on the one!)

[Christiern]

I don't recall the Showboat lounge allowing amateur musicians on the bandstand, and certainly not when professionals were playing--I think this routine was a bit of a fantasy trip. That, of course, does not make it less funny, although the humor of this piece, IMO, was fleeting. I guess I'm one of the few white people who did not find Cosby's routines funny. A good friend of mine was a regular on the Huxtable series, so I sat through a few shows, but found myself wondering why this sitcom was successful.

Different strokes, I guess.

[Free For All]

... whereupon he began playing at a blistering tempo and signaled for us to come back in at said blistering tempo! He took a few more choruses and then pointed at me to solo next. FUCK! I'm barely keeping the bassline going at that tempo!

Needless to say, I think I took one or two choruses and passed the buck onto Joe, barely getting out alive (or still on the one!)

Lucky for you your solo worked over those changes!

[Stereojack]

Great story! Thanks for posting it.

[marcello]

Well it is a nice, funny story even if it's not true.

A couple of times, I developed some negatives for Dizzy Gillespie when he would pass through town. He would have a dozens of them or so depending on how much time he had been on the road before going home, and I had the equipment to process them and make some prints. In those days he would be in one spot for a week or two sometimes, so I would delevop a few rolls and make some prints after he saw some contact sheets.

In one roll there were photos of The Cosbys at their home, where Birks would stay in a guest house when he was in LA. I remember that I made a series of images of the Cosby doberman "playfully" attacking thier son. Dizzy thought it was funny.

Another photo was a framed telegram from Miles Davis that was over a toilet that said something like:

"Ugh! ah bada bada ah ah bada ah!"

MILES

Edited February 5, 2008 by marcello

[Randy Twizzle]

Believe it or not, last week on the Tonight Show Tom Brokaw told a story about trying to be hip by hanging out with Leroy Vinegar in LA in the 60s. According to Brokaw, Vinegar once asked him to roll a joint and when Brokaw handed him a lumpy badly made sample, Vinegar said to him: "What the hell do you think you're doing, making tamales?"

It's not a hilarious story but I was surprised to hear Vinegars' name mentioned by a guy like Brokaw.