BFT 71 Discussion thread

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, I have it too but hadn't heard it in a while.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

6 I heard something like this once on a Capitol EP a girl friend had.

This is the most enigmatic response to a blindfold test selection yet. What happened to the girl? Did you break up over the Capitol EP?

This has been identified as John Carisi - not on Capitol.

Ah well, Rose was a mate, not someone one just has a kiss and a fondle in the dark with. Although she was as nuts as I was about R&B, she had a lot of weird stuff, too, including this Capitol EP, which was just the sort of thing the hip young things were listening to in the early fifties. Goodness knows where she got that stuff from, 'cos she was younger than me (18/19).

I recall the name of Carisi from "Birth of the cool" (just to prove I did once have Miles Davis albums )

MG

[NIS]

Jeff,

I've been enjoying listening to your BFT and following the comments. I am always amazed by the musical knowledge of the folks on the forum. For me, however, it was all new. I also find the differences in preferences a lot of fun. Thank God we don't all like the same thing.

I did recognize Bill Frisell on track 9. Reminded me of Marc Johnson's “Bass Desires” albums. I used to listen to them a lot but that stuff hasn't held up for me over the years for some reason.

My favorite tracks are definitely the 1960s and 1990s. You know on track 10 I was thinking of Tom Varner but since it is a trombone, I guess not. Please at least tell me trombone and french horn sound a little alike. I also seem to click on the first track quite often. Don't have anything like this in my collection. On the flip side, track 11 to me is just awful. I keep trying it but just doesn't work for me.

Thank you very much for another opportunity to hear some good, new to me music.

[jeffcrom]

Jeff,

I've been enjoying listening to your BFT and following the comments. I am always amazed by the musical knowledge of the folks on the forum. For me, however, it was all new. I also find the differences in preferences a lot of fun. Thank God we don't all like the same thing.

I did recognize Bill Frisell on track 9. Reminded me of Marc Johnson's “Bass Desires” albums. I used to listen to them a lot but that stuff hasn't held up for me over the years for some reason.

My favorite tracks are definitely the 1960s and 1990s. You know on track 10 I was thinking of Tom Varner but since it is a trombone, I guess not. Please at least tell me trombone and french horn sound a little alike. I also seem to click on the first track quite often. Don't have anything like this in my collection. On the flip side, track 11 to me is just awful. I keep trying it but just doesn't work for me.

Thank you very much for another opportunity to hear some good, new to me music.

Thanks for your comments. Ironically, in an earlier blindfold test, I thought that the trombonist featured on track 10 might be a French hornist.

I'm glad you (and others) like track one - I like that one a lot. And I agree with you that our different preferences are a good thing.

And off the subject of music - I had to ask my wife where Papillion is. She's a Nebraska farm girl - from Crete. But she's been in Georgia now longer than she was in Nebraska, and can fry up a catfish as well as any Georgia native.

[NIS]

Lucky man, finding yourself a Nebraska girl.

[jeffcrom]

Lucky man, finding yourself a Nebraska girl.

I agree. She introduced me to The Zoo Bar in Lincoln (one of the country's great blues bars), the runza (for those not from Nebraska, it's a meat and cabbage pie kind of thing - Czech, I think), and Cornhuskers football. I think I was more upset than she was when Nebraska lost the Big 12 championship.

[mikeweil]

Finally getting around to some concentrated listening of this BFT ...

# 1 - I have a version of that tune somewhere, on a highly original Louis Armstrong Tribute by The New York Jazz Repertory Company - can't remember the title. Whoever that is plays it nicely. Wonder who it is and which year it was recorded. In this version it sounds like it could originally have been some show tune.

# 2 - Wow - sounds like a sped-up version of a compendium of Ragtime licks - in a positive way, that is. This early jazz or showband music was much closer related to parade music than we think. Like this. Drummer switches to Glockenspiel and then to some weird board sounding like a cross between a tap dancer and a washboard. Drumming-wise, a great performance.

# 3 - So he gonna play no second fiddle to no-one? I ain't gonna make no second guesses ...

# 4 - Great swing band - there was so much good music in that era ... I know too little of it. Like this a lot!

# 5 - Another familiar tune. Sounds like one of those early 1940's recordings where bop was in the air, but Bird and Diz were still in the future. Sweet clarinet sound. Trumpet sounds a bit like Roy Eldridge, but is not as assured technically. No idea who they are.

# 6 - Sounds like a piece George Russell or Hal McKusick on any writer from this circle of musicians might write around, above and over some familiar changes. I could have that somewhere ... great piece of music, and the tune they use as a basis is on my tongue ... 

# 7 - They are too sloppy for my taste when they state the tune. Well, their spirit is nice. I like the trumpeter best of that bunch. Nice tone and good rhythmic feel. The remainder are nice, but he stands out, somehow. A little less overplaying and it could have been an excellent performance. (Just my taste, of course.) That rattling with maracas etc. is superfluous (take this from a percussionist).

# 8 - I know that tune, but a different version. Miles? From the last days of the band with Herbie or the next one ... No - this should be Woody Shaw. Trumpet is played too precisely to be Miles ... Lenny White on drums? I would buy this ... From one of those Contemporary LPs? I guess so - this is Bennie Maupin. Blackstone Legacy? It's a long time I heard some of this. Didn't remember it was that close to late 1960's Miles in concept ... Stanley Clarke? A very good Herbie imitator - George Cables? he was one at the time ... this is a lot better than I remembered. I must get me this. Did I ever have that on LP? 

# 9 - Terje Rypdal? I'm not that much a fan of guitar (although I always end up playing in bands with guitarists) and haven't listened to much of it, but this is nice. There was a Rypdal track on one early BFT that I liked a lot, and this remionds me of it. There is alot of atmosphere and emotion in that track, perhaps almost too much for me ... these are sounds I grew up with, and there was a time when I didn't want to hear any more of it, but an occasional re-visit is nice. 

More to come - very enjoyable ride so far!

[jeffcrom]

Finally getting around to some concentrated listening of this BFT ...

# 1 - I have a version of that tune somewhere, on a highly original Louis Armstrong Tribute by The New York Jazz Repertory Company - can't remember the title. Whoever that is plays it nicely. Wonder who it is and which year it was recorded. In this version it sounds like it could originally have been some show tune.

The main performer has been identified and the tune kinda partly identified. Not a show tune, though - more info in a few days.

# 2 - Wow - sounds like a sped-up version of a compendium of Ragtime licks - in a positive way, that is. This early jazz or showband music was much closer related to parade music than we think. Like this. Drummer switches to Glockenspiel and then to some weird board sounding like a cross between a tap dancer and a washboard. Drumming-wise, a great performance.

Your characterization of this tune is right on the mark, and I think that's why James Reese Europe was so exciting to New Yorkers when this was recorded. I think the bizarre sound is just a snare drum, tuned a little oddly to today's ears and captured by the less-than-great recording technology of the time.

# 3 - So he gonna play no second fiddle to no-one? I ain't gonna make no second guesses ...

Pretty good trumpet, though, eh? See posts above.

# 4 - Great swing band - there was so much good music in that era ... I know too little of it. Like this a lot!

I'm glad that this Ellington selection wasn't obvious to most listeners. As I've said, one of my favorites from this period.

# 5 - Another familiar tune. Sounds like one of those early 1940's recordings where bop was in the air, but Bird and Diz were still in the future. Sweet clarinet sound. Trumpet sounds a bit like Roy Eldridge, but is not as assured technically. No idea who they are.

Interesting comments on the trumpet player, who is (as you probably know by now) Eldridge's one-time disciple Dizzy Gillespie. So not in the future, but pretty early on.

# 6 - Sounds like a piece George Russell or Hal McKusick on any writer from this circle of musicians might write around, above and over some familiar changes. I could have that somewhere ... great piece of music, and the tune they use as a basis is on my tongue ... 

Pretty insightful name-checking on this John Carisi piece. It'll make more sense in a few days....

# 7 - They are too sloppy for my taste when they state the tune. Well, their spirit is nice. I like the trumpeter best of that bunch. Nice tone and good rhythmic feel. The remainder are nice, but he stands out, somehow. A little less overplaying and it could have been an excellent performance. (Just my taste, of course.) That rattling with maracas etc. is superfluous (take this from a percussionist).

Most listeners singled out Roswell Rudd's trombone - interesting that the somewhat obscure Mike Lawrence stood out for you. I understand what you mean about the sloppiness, overplaying, and rattling percussion. But hey, it was the sixties!

# 8 - I know that tune, but a different version. Miles? From the last days of the band with Herbie or the next one ... No - this should be Woody Shaw. Trumpet is played too precisely to be Miles ... Lenny White on drums? I would buy this ... From one of those Contemporary LPs? I guess so - this is Bennie Maupin. Blackstone Legacy? It's a long time I heard some of this. Didn't remember it was that close to late 1960's Miles in concept ... Stanley Clarke? A very good Herbie imitator - George Cables? he was one at the time ... this is a lot better than I remembered. I must get me this. Did I ever have that on LP? 

Wow - good ears. It's Lenny White, Stanley Clarke, and George Cables, among others. (Clarke has already been identified.) It's not Shaw or Maupin, but I'm still impressed.

# 9 - Terje Rypdal? I'm not that much a fan of guitar (although I always end up playing in bands with guitarists) and haven't listened to much of it, but this is nice. There was a Rypdal track on one early BFT that I liked a lot, and this remionds me of it. There is alot of atmosphere and emotion in that track, perhaps almost too much for me ... these are sounds I grew up with, and there was a time when I didn't want to hear any more of it, but an occasional re-visit is nice. 

Frisell, not Rypdal, as you've probably read. But I sure I'm glad that someone besides me likes this. I find this to be a touching, emotional piece of music also, but so far nobody else has agreed.

More to come - very enjoyable ride so far!

Thanks for your comments. Looking forward to the rest.

[jeffcrom]

Coupla more days - all will be revealed on Sunday, Jan. 31.

[lipi]

Coupla more days - all will be revealed on Sunday, Jan. 31.

Better get in my guesses at the last minute!

Unsurprisingly, I liked tracks 1 through 4 and wasn't smitten with anything else. Gimme the old stuff.

1: Reminds me of Cantrell & Williams and Vess L. Ossman, but I don't have much of this late ragtime early jazz stuff, so everything sounds like the two or three things I have. I'm picturing Joe Bussard mugging to this in his basement.

2: Arthur Pryor, maybe? Could be Europe, but I think Pryor is more likely.

3: "I'm gonna play no second fiddle", Perry Bradfoord's Jazz Phools. Awesome record! Ranks up there with Bessie's recording, in my book.

4: Ellington, maybe? It's really driving, but it's not Webb, Lunceford, or Basie. Could be some sound-a-like. Charlie Barnet, maybe? Sounds like it's a little earlier, though. Oh, there's a bari sax! I think it's Ellington with Carney taking that solo. Don't recognize the track, but he recorded so much... Love it.

5: No idea. The drummer is a little too high-hat happy for my mind, and the trumpet player is a little too harmonically out there (yeah, I know...), but I really like the piano player. The ensemble at the end makes my ears bleed.

I'll embarrass myself by guessing at *some* of the newer stuff, at least:

8: Chet Baker?

12: This sounds like Tennessee Ernie Ford a bit. I'd be mighty surprised if it were him, though. Is this from the 50s?

Anyway: thanks! Had fun with it.

[jeffcrom]

Coupla more days - all will be revealed on Sunday, Jan. 31.

Better get in my guesses at the last minute!

Unsurprisingly, I liked tracks 1 through 4 and wasn't smitten with anything else. Gimme the old stuff.

I'm weird, I guess - I like Johnny Dodds and Albert Ayler.

1: Reminds me of Cantrell & Williams and Vess L. Ossman, but I don't have much of this late ragtime early jazz stuff, so everything sounds like the two or three things I have. I'm picturing Joe Bussard mugging to this in his basement.

It's Ossman - well done.

2: Arthur Pryor, maybe? Could be Europe, but I think Pryor is more likely.

It's James Reese Europe. I actually kind of like Arthur Pryor's ragtime recordings, but they were usually more sedate than this.

3: "I'm gonna play no second fiddle", Perry Bradfoord's Jazz Phools. Awesome record! Ranks up there with Bessie's recording, in my book.

Yep - this is a great one.

4: Ellington, maybe? It's really driving, but it's not Webb, Lunceford, or Basie. Could be some sound-a-like. Charlie Barnet, maybe? Sounds like it's a little earlier, though. Oh, there's a bari sax! I think it's Ellington with Carney taking that solo. Don't recognize the track, but he recorded so much... Love it.

I think you were the only person who recognized Ellington without already knowing the specific piece. Good ear!

5: No idea. The drummer is a little too high-hat happy for my mind, and the trumpet player is a little too harmonically out there (yeah, I know...), but I really like the piano player. The ensemble at the end makes my ears bleed.

Yeah, it's kind of a mess, but it's a glorious one, to my ears.

I'll embarrass myself by guessing at *some* of the newer stuff, at least:

8: Chet Baker?

Nope, more obscure - you'll see.

12: This sounds like Tennessee Ernie Ford a bit. I'd be mighty surprised if it were him, though. Is this from the 50s?

It is from the 50s. Check out the Reveal.

Anyway: thanks! Had fun with it.

Glad you enjoyed the early stuff.

[tkeith]

Sorry for the delay -- started early, then got crazy busy. Only one listen, not much luck.

Track 1 - Clueless. No impression either way.

Track 2 - Clueless, reaction is not positive. It was interesting at first, but then it just bugged me. The strings are just shrill and whiny.

Track 3 - Don't know what it is, but we're getting closer. The sound is very difficult on the really old recordings, but I like the feel of this.

Track 4 - Don't know, seems standard good for the period, but made no other lasting impression.

Track 5 - I like this right away. Melancholy Baby if I'm not mistaken -- it was at least quoted. Sounds like that guy with the puffy cheeks on trumpet , but I don't think it is. No idea on the clarinet. I like it, but wouldn't be in the regular rotation.

Track 6 - I can only guess maybe Kenton. I can't think of anyone doing something this abstract for the time period off the top of my head. I was dubious during the intro, but it's a very nice melody, and the band is really solid. Very nice, no idea who is playing.

Track 7 - Now we're getting into my era. Very Ornette inspired. Man, I'm all over this like chocolate cake drizzled in fresh whipped cream. Much love. Lovin' the bone, and that drummer is kicking everybody's ass. I MUST have this. Seems too early to be Hemphill, but that's who the alto reminds me of.

Track 8 - Very Bitches Brew inspired. Not Miles. Definitely Joe Henderson. Sounds like Stanley Clarke on bass. Tastily 70s, but Joe never struck me as much in this sort of stuff as he does in the Blue Note stuff. Hmm... could also be Cecil McBee on bass -- seems more musical and less flashy than Clarke.

Track 9 - Really despise this sort of over-effects guitar. No idea, just not my bag at all. If it were calling itself rock, I might dig it more -- as Jazz, I'll pass.

Track 10 - Not a fan of the tenor player. Sounds like an inside guy trying to play out, but I'm not really buying it. Sounds like he likes Dewey Redman a lot, and maybe David S. Ware, but lacks the balls of either guy. Maybe it's my speakers -- I want to like him more as it goes on, but I'm just not sure about how he gets there. I like the 'bone player. The tune never really seems to decide where it's going. It's something I'll listen to again, but I don't think it'll make the final cut.

Track 11 - Interesting use of vocals. Not sure how I feel about the band, but I like the chart. This is going in a lot of directions -- not sure they all tie in but I like it. No clue on the bone, or anybody else for that matter, but it works for me. Very reminiscent of some of the Hieroglyphics Orchestra stuff.

Track 12 - How High The Moon... not sure of the vocalist -- sounds a bit like Billy Eckstine, but the vibrato is way over the top. The second part sounds like Roy Eldridge on trumpet, I don't know of this pairing happening, but it sounds like Warne Marshe to me on tenor. Could make it a JATP session with Getz.

Track 13 - Von Freeman on tenor. Not sure on the others.

Track 14 - The Song Is You. Sounds a bit like Philly Joe on drums. Trumpet is a bitch. Tenor sounds like George Coleman, only weaker. Maybe more like Cal Massey. Don't know -- I know I don't have it, though.

Thanks for putting this together, as it wore on, there was a lot of stuff to perk my ears.