CJ Shearn Posted June 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 I agree with you completely on this Allen. I mean, we all love bop here, but it has to be integrated with other parts of the jazz grammar to stay relevant, that's why all the older stuff still sounds great b/c back then it was relevant. I wonder if Bird had lived if he would have gone a similar path as Trane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 I know that I disagree with him about Wayne Shorter, and fundamentally so, but...so what? It's not like you have to like Wayne Shorter, or even worse, should like Wayne Shorter.That's kinda creepy. Do I have to like Bill Evans? Do I have to should like Bill Evans? If so, then I fail at life. And oh well about that. I just think that he made the mistake of absolutizing his own beliefs and more or less turning it from "doesn't work for me" into "Wrong For Life"...and even that's not a mistake unless you're looking for reinforcement, in which case, sorry wrong world. And even then, hey, courage of conviction recognized, and all that. But beyond that, I remain resoundingly unconvinced of any need to be convinced. Which to me is the ultimate Sad Joke - who is trying to convince who of what, and why them? And ok, while we're in Full Fuck Afterglow...fuck Facebook. And fuck "social media" in general. But that's just me. In all the arts it is necessary to separate historical relevance from personal taste, and to know the latter doesn't dictate the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 Why is it "necessary"? I mean, I think it's advisable, smart, even. For me, that is. But when "necessary" comes into play, then ok, necessary in order to be a certain Thing X. But is Thing X the only Thing allowable or desirable? If so, then what about "outsider" music, or willful hermit-geniuses like, say Warne Marsh, or indigenous arts that exist only to sustain themselves? I kinda like a world where those thing can be there just because. But the people who traffic in such ideas quite often have no use for thins such as relevancy to anything besides their world, or evolving away from what they already feel to be their own absolute truth. What I'm uncomfortable with is the notion that if somebody makes Music A then one must abide by Wisdom A or else one should just SDASTFU. I ain't there with that. Do what you need to do and then live with the consequences. Just don't expect sympathy and/or encouragement from people who think you are more or less or totally wrong. If you're doing what you're doing to prove somebody else's wrong instead of to prove your own right, then, hey, you really are a schmuck. Otherwise, it's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 I suppose "necessary" wasn't the best choice of word. Any egomaniac is welcome to attempt to dictate the terms of relevance to the entire world, but should expect the inevitable repercussions and dissent from everyone else. There's a whole lot of artists I had to learn about in order to get a high score on certain exams. Even if I didn't like what they did, it was viewed as important to the establishment that students understand what they did and why it is considered relevant. Above and beyond that, no matter what your tastes, whatever you create must have an audience. It must inspire an audience and captivate them. Having resonated with a large audience doesn't necessarily mean the establishment will share the enthusiasm, but often the two coincide. With that in mind it's sort of odd to attack an established artist in the same field whose work has resonated with a really broad audience. Not sure what he's trying to prove or who he's trying to prove it to. It's sort of like a mouthy sports star who ought to let his game do the talking. If he doesn't want to play like Wayne Shorter...don't play like Wayne Shorter. Show and prove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 ... willful hermit-geniuses like, say Warne Marsh... I like that phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enterprise Server Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) An unacceptably late post to this video but I was stunned to see and hear the level of ignorance and disrespect by Hoffman. I can deal with the ignorance  but the arrogance and disrespect was beyond anything that I have seen. I have no sympathy for him for the heated backlash and the tidal wave of negative responses he received. He deserved all of it. Not for his ignorance but because of the toxic and seething disrespect on so many levels.Yes, he is entitled to his opinion. I have no issues with that regardless of how I may disagree with someone's opinions. But when you show such contemptuous arrogance and disrespect...well..you get what you deserve. He needs to understand when you use the language he used....THEN YOU SHOULD EXPECT PEOPLE TO RESPOND IN KIND! E'nuff said.... Edited August 29, 2015 by Enterprise Server Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnblitweiler Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 And ok, while we're in Full Fuck Afterglow...fuck Facebook. And fuck "social media" in general. But that's just me.Gee, isn't this forum social media? Who among us is unsociable?But anyone who doesn't play piano like Monk is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 Many people seem not to understand that it is unnecessary to have an opinion about  absolutely everything.  And  if you do have an opinion, it is unnecessary to voice it.  And if you must voice it, be prepared to discover that nobody gives a fuck what you think.  As Miles said on hearing Wynton diss electric jazz: "Did someone ask him a question?!!  I didn't hear no question".  (That's not verbatim--  I just remember reading it many years ago. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xybert Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 One of the problems with the internet is that it's opinion overload, if you let it be. discussion is good, but i just don't think we're built to process infinite opinions from around the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Many people seem not to understand that it is unnecessary to have an opinion about  absolutely everything.  And  if you do have an opinion, it is unnecessary to voice it.  And if you must voice it, be prepared to discover that nobody gives a fuck what you think.  As Miles said on hearing Wynton diss electric jazz: "Did someone ask him a question?!!  I didn't hear no question".  (That's not verbatim--  I just remember reading it many years ago. ) Damn straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) I agree. Joe. Over and over again.Of course, that is a little like the old saying 'never say never....'. Edited August 31, 2015 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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