Teasing the Korean Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) 21 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said: Thanks to Teasin', out comes 'Watch what happens'. (But, in view of uncertainty, 'Once upon a summertime' and 'Pieces of dreams' stay in.) I don't understand the significance of this. Edited December 21, 2015 by Teasing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Zawinul contributed many instrumental jazz standards past Mercy. although I don't know how many remain active as such...but - Walk Tall, Dr, Honorous Causa, Birdland, these were all tunes that at one time you were expected to know. And the Nat Adderley version of Hippodelphia...I had that in my book when I had a band that played such things, and people had never played it before, but dug it immediately, that's a seriously badass tune. And no matter how little it gets played these days, In A Silent Way, especially the full piece, is surely a standard. It's one of those things that if you as a contemporary musician don't know it, that's on you. You don't have to like it, but you should know it, fill that gap and move on, but fill that gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duaneiac Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Didn't Joe Zawinul become a US citizen at some point (perhaps maintaining dual citizenship)? I'm guessing by the time of Weather Report he must have become a US citizen. So would his (or any other "foreign" musician's) musical contributions made after gaining citizenship qualify for this category?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 We'd have to ask the listmeister about that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 On 12/19/2015 at 0:57 PM, The Magnificent Goldberg said: Oh, I have that song 'Here's to life' by Irene Reid! And that's 'Estaté'; well, well. MG Oh, some of those were instrumentals to start off with, I'm sure; 'Watch what happens', 'Pieces of dreams', both of which I SHOULD have remembered, and... 'Once upon a summertime'? I know Miles recorded it with, I think, Gil Evans, on a Latin LP I used to have of his, but was that the start of it? I somehow doubt it. (And yes, I did buy half a dozen Miles albums before I gave him up as a bad job.) I'm sure the other two started out as songs, but maybe they changed their titles when someone wrote words. 'I will wait for you' makes me think of Dizzy Gillespie and 'Tin tin deo', which was written by Mr Pozo, a Cuban. So that one DEFINITELY goes in the list. And didn't Mongo Santamaria write a jazz standard? Can't remember, but I CAN remember that he did (I think). MG The original lyric to Estate is in Italian. On 12/20/2015 at 2:47 AM, A Lark Ascending said: Kurt Weill Although many of his songs were written in the States some of his German/European tunes have been used in jazz. The most obvious is 'Mack the Knife'. There are many Weill themed albums drawing off the before and after. The other obvious ones are My Ship, Speak Low, and the Barbara Song was recorded by The Gil Evans Orchestra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Dave Holland has a few tunes from Conference Of The Birds in the Real Book, as does Mike Gibbs. The original question had to do with pieces that were not "songs" to begin with, correct? No lyrics in original conception, purely an instrumental construction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted December 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 On 21/12/2015 at 3:53 PM, JSngry said: Dave Holland has a few tunes from Conference Of The Birds in the Real Book, as does Mike Gibbs. The original question had to do with pieces that were not "songs" to begin with, correct? No lyrics in original conception, purely an instrumental construction? 1 Stuff may be in the Real Book, and I wouldn't dispute the need for jazz musicians to KNOW it, even know it very well, but do people get them out and play them much, other than in rehearsals or in music college classes? I don't know so, if you do (or anyone else does), please list 'em. That's what I'm after. 2 Yes, that was my idea. There are loads of pop songs written by non-Americans, many of which have become standard fare for jazz musicians, much as Cole Porter's have. And pop songs, when thinking about non-Americans, could be anything, because a huge number of varieties of pop music have been knocking around the planet for a very long time. So I had to eliminate all songs from my thinking. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 The Mike Gibbs tunes, no. They were in there due to the Gary Burton Berklee origins of the book. The Holland tunes did get played by the more adventurous students for a while in the 70s, they're great heads and lend themselves good to jamming, But then that whole "other thing" happened and then it was like, oh, not really jazz. But I think you can find a few people here and there who could still play them if needed. Not at all a new or recent insight, but with the shifted emphasis towards wholly original material, the emphasis on a shared "standard" repertoire has morphed quite a bit. I look at it like anything post-1975 or so that a few people in a few places know and have at their disposal to play is about as "standard" as you're gonna get. That really doesn't bother me, but when the inevitable snarkfest (which I don't see happening here, mind you, thankfully) about "well, if these music is so "universal", why are there no standards coming out of it" is irksome, because "standards" apply more to overall mindset than they do fixed materials. Quite apart from that, though, Zawinul. Exception to all kinds of rules. Any other non-American, a distant second, at least in this very specific category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockefeller center Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) How many Swiss composers/musicians have been mentioned yet? My guess: 0. Jojo Mayer: do something about it! Switzerland: no corazón. Edited December 22, 2015 by rockefeller center Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uli Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) 30 minutes ago, rockefeller center said: How many Swiss composers/musicians have been mentioned yet? My guess: 0. Jojo Mayer: do something about it! Switzerland: no corazón. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoJe77SKTAA Edited December 22, 2015 by uli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockefeller center Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 2 minutes ago, uli said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= Sali Ueli! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockefeller center Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Fuck Switzerland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 17 hours ago, JSngry said: The Mike Gibbs tunes, no. They were in there due to the Gary Burton Berklee origins of the book. The Holland tunes did get played by the more adventurous students for a while in the 70s, they're great heads and lend themselves good to jamming, But then that whole "other thing" happened and then it was like, oh, not really jazz. But I think you can find a few people here and there who could still play them if needed. Not at all a new or recent insight, but with the shifted emphasis towards wholly original material, the emphasis on a shared "standard" repertoire has morphed quite a bit. I look at it like anything post-1975 or so that a few people in a few places know and have at their disposal to play is about as "standard" as you're gonna get. That really doesn't bother me, but when the inevitable snarkfest (which I don't see happening here, mind you, thankfully) about "well, if these music is so "universal", why are there no standards coming out of it" is irksome, because "standards" apply more to overall mindset than they do fixed materials. Quite apart from that, though, Zawinul. Exception to all kinds of rules. Any other non-American, a distant second, at least in this very specific category. I expect you're right about Joe Zawinul. The only ones I know are 'Mercy X3' and 'Money in the pocket'. Is that frequently done? Can you mention the others, please? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisp Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Greensleeves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Walk Tall In A Silent Way Dr. Honoris Causa Boogie Woogie Waltz A Remark You Made Birdland Young & Fine (I've even heard beboppers play this one!) Some of these may be "victims of fashion" right now, but all were widely embraced in their time, remain readily identifiable to most public and most players, and should fashion favor that type of music again, will again be widely played for indiscriminate general consumption. And if not, they once were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 23 hours ago, crisp said: Greensleeves? Special Henry VIII category ! How about 'England's Carol' aka 'God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen?' - discounted I guess as only MJQ, although they must have played it a million times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted December 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 1 hour ago, sidewinder said: Special Henry VIII category ! How about 'England's Carol' aka 'God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen?' - discounted I guess as only MJQ, although they must have played it a million times. Actually, I have a lot of versions of that: Kenny Burrell Houston Person Jimmy Smith Ramsey Lewis Rhoda Scott And ORGANISSIMO!!!!! I also have it by the Staples Singers and Chief Commander Ebenezer Obey. But, as it started off as a song, it doesn't get in the list And thanks Jim for the list of Joe Zawinul standards. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I don't see any evidence of "Hippodelphia" really being known as anything other than an "album cut" from MercyMerciMersey, but it's a great tune, and Joe Henderson on the Nat Adderley version is oooooh so good, so I'd like to add it to the list, but...can't. Someday, perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crisp Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 George Shearing was mentioned at the top of this thread for Lullaby of Birdland. What about Conception? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicky Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Smile by Charlie Chaplin. Lyrics were added later. Off the top of my head, I have KD, Dex, Sonny Criss & Von Freeman taking a stab at the tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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