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ghost of miles

MLB 2018: let the games begin!

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19 minutes ago, Brad said:

Nonsense like this and the extreme shifts we see routinely has to stop.  

It's not nonsense if it works. If hitters would be willing to learn to learn to hit to the opposite field instead of having the mindset - I'm a power/pull hitter and I'm not going to change - the shifts would end.

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Nice leadoff HR by Happ, first pitch of the season.

The Astros' George Springer also had a leadoff HR today, on the third pitch of the game against the Rangers.  He also had a leadoff HR last season - first player in MLB history to have leadoff HR's on opening day two seasons in a row.

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52 minutes ago, paul secor said:

It's not nonsense if it works. If hitters would be willing to learn to learn to hit to the opposite field instead of having the mindset - I'm a power/pull hitter and I'm not going to change - the shifts would end.

It’s altering the essence of the game of three outfielders, not four. Just because it works, fo the ends justify the means.  Just imagine if in football the wide receivers could line up where they want to catch the ball or the QB could throw past the line of scrimmage or there was no offside rule in soccer. 

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But it's not against MLB rules to do what the Astros did.  It's against NFL rules for WRs to line up anywhere, or the QB to throw past the line of scrimmage.  And offsides is an offense in soccer as well.

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Just now, Brad said:

It’s altering the essence of the game of three outfielders, not four. Just because it works, fo the ends justify the means.  Just imagine if in football the wide receivers could line up where they want to catch the ball or the QB could throw past the line of scrimmage or there was no offside rule in soccer. 

I hear what you're saying, but there's no rule in baseball as to how many outfielders there can be. Shifts have been used since the days of Ted Williams - perhaps before then, but I don't go back that far. And football teams use spread formations to maximize the use of receivers. They can only have three on the line of scrimmage, but two more can be spread wide, lining up a yard behind the line of scrimmage.
In my opinion, the "the essence of the game" has been altered by teams relying solely on the long ball, to the detriment of the hit and run, the stolen base, going the other way to move a runner up, etc.
If hitters learned to hit, instead of constantly trying to pull the ball, the shifts would end.

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Actually, you can have as many WRs on the line of scrimmage as you like. Just as long as the tackles are covered and all receivers are eligible. 

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8 hours ago, paul secor said:

I hear what you're saying, but there's no rule in baseball as to how many outfielders there can be. Shifts have been used since the days of Ted Williams - perhaps before then, but I don't go back that far. And football teams use spread formations to maximize the use of receivers. They can only have three on the line of scrimmage, but two more can be spread wide, lining up a yard behind the line of scrimmage.
In my opinion, the "the essence of the game" has been altered by teams relying solely on the long ball, to the detriment of the hit and run, the stolen base, going the other way to move a runner up, etc.
If hitters learned to hit, instead of constantly trying to pull the ball, the shifts would end.

I understand that there is no such rule but I firmly believe they’re stretching the symmetry of the game, the essence, whatever you’d like to call it. However, I also understand that this bending the boundaries (apologies for all these cliches) will continue until checked. 

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The symmetry of the game is the field itself, the diamond, the foul lines. The creativity of the game in how players operate on the field. Remember, the bases are offensive markers, the only reason to put a player in proximity to a base is to get the out, to reduce the offense on any given play. You don't have an infielder to make sure that a runner has somebody to say hi to as they pass by, dig?

If it becomes more efficient to get the out by putting players elsewhere, hey, that'll be the new math, unless and until hitters figure out how to, as Wee Willie Keeler(?) immortally stated, "hit it where they ain't".

What would be weird would be if they started putting outfielders in foul territory and then pitchers started pitching to induce foul outs. Something like that, THAT would be messing with the symmetry of the game. Shifts and such, hey, that's like Western music, you got 12 notes, how you put them together is your choice, make it work for you, and if you can use some of the in-between sounds...if it works, it works.

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Yes it was Wee Willie Keeler who said it, and I frankly find Brad's attitude that this is some sort of corruption of the game to be ... appalling.

Teams have used shifts since, I'm guessing, before Brad was born.  This is somehow different?  The shift used against David Ortiz had a fourth outfielder, just playing a little shallow to be able to throw him out if a grounder/liner were hit right at the fielder. Same thing.

When I look at the alignment used against Gallo, its ridiculous to think that if he had the skill to push a ball thru just left of where a shortstop would be, he's on 2B easy.  A hard groundball or liner goes to the LF wall and its a triple and maybe inside-the-park homer.

But if Brad thinks this should be outlawed somehow, uh, yeah NO.

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I don’t agree but don’t want to prolong the issue either.  However, Jim noted a situation that’s perfectly legal but weird so who’s to say that’s wrong.  Another that would be weird but legal: why not place a fielder right behind the pitcher or slightly to his right or left to throw off the batter. 

Edited by Brad

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8 minutes ago, Brad said:

I don’t agree but don’t want to prolong the issue either.  However, Jim noted a situation that’s perfectly legal but weird so who’s to say that’s wrong.  Another that would be weird but legal: why not place a fielder right behind the pitcher or slightly to his right or left to throw off the batter. 

There are rules about neutral backgrounds behind pitchers. You couldn't get away with putting someone behind the pitcher with the intent to distract the hitter.

Thanks for the reminder though of this classic sitcom episode. Nearly as amusing as the "As god is my witness I thought turkeys could fly" episode.

Loni Anderson WKRP.JPG

Edited by Dan Gould
JEEZ Turkeys not Pigs

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Plus it would be incredibly stupid to essentially take one fielder out of the defensive play. 

And Dan, did you mean turkeys? 

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Edited at the same time you were posting. Of course someone sees my foolishness. :(

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I grew up with the conventional wisdom/history that Lou Boudreau invented the shift, employing it against Ted Williams, but Wiki says a shift was actually used before that against Cy Williams in the 1920s:

Infield shift

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4 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

I grew up with the conventional wisdom/history that Lou Boudreau invented the shift, employing it against Ted Williams, but Wiki says a shift was actually used before that against Cy Williams in the 1920s:

Infield shift

Since Dan thinks there were shifts before I was born, I just want to let him know I saw the shift used against Cy ;) :lol:

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3 minutes ago, Brad said:

Since Dan thinks there were shifts before I was born, I just want to let him know I saw the shift used against Cy ;) :lol:

:lol: I’ll bet you heard Buddy Bolden too! 🎺 

A memorable MLB World Series moment that resulted from a shift:

Johnny Damon steals two bases in a single play

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Ahh, Buddy what a sound! :D

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1 hour ago, Brad said:

Did you hear Sterling's HR call for Stanton? Not very good. He needs to rework it. Supposedly he was working on it for awhile. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/sports/baseball/yankees-john-sterling-giancarlo-stanton.html

Yeah, it's awful.  Would much prefer something more traditionally corny like "Stanton deliver" or some such. 

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what, turkeys can't fly?

 

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The Glider

As if Rusty passing was not enough, Ed Charles, the Glider, passed away on March 15. He only played for them for two years but was an important part of the 69 Championship Team. 

The Glider will never be forgotten by Mets fans. 

As the following article notes:

“Charles was known to write and recite poetry, and as part of the Mets’ celebration in Bryant Park in Manhattan, he read a prayer-poem he had written while stuck in the minors in 1961. Part of it went, ‘Grateful to You I’ll always be/ For exploiting my talents for the world to see.’”

Ed Charles Obituary

 

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