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DownBeat Reader's Poll - Vote For Hank Mobley

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11 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Hank gets overdue recognition.

We get Hank Mobley in the Jazz Hall Of Fame.

Is there a real Jazz Hall Of Fame, and if so, is it the Down Beat Hall of fame?

I'm really not sure what "overdue recognition" looks like to a dead man with no heirs. Hell, it was overdue while he was alive.

Again I have to ask - what does Hank get out of this, exactly? I see people who vote for him getting to feel good, I see Down Beat maybe getting a feature article about  him, I see Blue Note maybe selling some more records, but what does Hank Mobley himself get out of this?

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Looking at it from other perspectives, there are people who are posthumously recognized by other halls of fame, as well as some military veterans recognized for their acts in battle. In addition, as another example, the New York Times is currently a series of obituaries about notable women who were never recognized during their lifetime but made notable contributions.  Why can't it be about recognizing a person's place in history rather than "what do I get out of it."

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32 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Is there a real Jazz Hall Of Fame, and if so, is it the Down Beat Hall of fame?

I'm really not sure what "overdue recognition" looks like to a dead man with no heirs. Hell, it was overdue while he was alive.

Again I have to ask - what does Hank get out of this, exactly? I see people who vote for him getting to feel good, I see Down Beat maybe getting a feature article about  him, I see Blue Note maybe selling some more records, but what does Hank Mobley himself get out of this?

I don't understand where you're going with this exactly but I'll answer anyway... Hank Mobley is dead. He gets absolutely nothing from here on out. Ashes to ashes and all that. This is true for anyone who is already dead. Posthumous honors are for the living, in this case, his fans. I am one of them and as such, I would really like to see this underappreciated artist finally get his name listed there. If you don't think he belongs there, don't vote for him.

I started this thread after searching for the DownBeat Hall Of Fame and found that quite a few here never voted at all. I saw this and thought I would ask if my fellow board denizens would do me a favor and click through a few screens to help get Hank the honor I believe he deserves.

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It's Down Beat, that's why. The only currency that Down Beat has is that which it bestows itself. It's a "Hall Of Fame" that only exists on the magazine's pages..

People say they don't take the DB Critics Poll seriously. Hell, I don't even take the DB Readers Poll seriously. I stopped taking Down Beat really seriously around 1978, and stopped reading it regularly maybe 10 years later. I doubt I've bought an issue in the last five years.

I learn more about music, musicians, and records from the choice posters here at Organissimo than I do in Down Beat.

There ya' go - lets have an Organissimo Hall Of Fame, let's do that.

6 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

 Posthumous honors are for the living, in this case, his fans. I am one of them and as such, I would really like to see this underappreciated artist finally get his name listed there. If you don't think he belongs there, don't vote for him.

I'd love to see his name "listed there" if I knew what the significance of it was. I really don't see any other than hey, Hank Mobley's on this list.

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12 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I'd love to see his name "listed there" if I knew what the significance of it was. I really don't see any other than hey, Hank Mobley's on this list.

That's exactly what I want. "Hey, Hank Mobley's in the DownBeat Hall Of Fame," would suit me just fine.

And no matter what you & I think of Downbeat's Polls, Artists of the Year, Album of the Year and, yes, even the Hall Of Fame, the Jazz world (artists, labels, critics, etc) generally eats it up and let's face it, the DownBeat Hall of Fame is, by default, the Jazz Hall Of Fame. As such, it will be around a lot longer than you & I and if I can say that I saw Hank Mobley listed there, I will be happy.

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If you think that Hank Mobley's legacy is most properly honored by seeing is name in a trade publication list, then by all means, do this thing.

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I don't think he said its properly honored, just that its honored in some new way.

Jim is a DB HoF nod an improper honor?

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No, it’s not improper by any stretch. Jim is just in pain in the ass mode. Ultimately I get where he’s coming from, but I get where Kevin’s coming from more. 

Let the living honor the dead. It’s a tradition as old as the first honorable dead dude. Who cares what the fuck it means, or who gets what. 

Edited by Scott Dolan

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Hey - I started reading Down Beat in 1970. I ran the whole cycle with them and all they've done, all the angles they've presented themselves to their readers through their advertisers, and how they handled the Great Seismic Shift of the Neo-Con Con game.

They no longer impress me, they no longer compel me to even look for them on a newsstand. I think they're a joke, really. Jazz (and/or) other is not their focus - Down Beat is their focus. The days of them even being a token "forward looking" mag are long over.

This Hall Of Fame of theirs is a sham - they have no building, no room, no nothing, just a list of names, that they print when it's time. Glenn Miller & Stan Kenton were in before Duke Ellington & Charlie Parker. When Jimi Hendrix made it, there was a massive revolt. There for a while, you got in when you died. It's a joke, now, and it's a joke then.

Plus I see that they've added a "veteran's committee" (did not know this until looking at wikki just now) whoe sole function seems to be to pick giants from the past who today's people are too ignorant to recognize.

Look - there's no cash, not sure if there's even a plaque (and if so, who would get it on Hank's behalf?), there damn sure ain't no money in it. It's not an honor, it's a self-serving game for the magazine and a serf-comforting deception for the fans.

If you really want to honor the memory of Hank Mobley for generations to come, put up a statue of him, a nice noble statue of thinking man with a tenor and a thoughtful look on his face on a base that's big enough to hold a band. Put that statue and that base somewhere in the middle of Philly or Newark and schedule regular events there.

Make it nice, make it right, and call it Hank Mobley Circle.

Circle, not square.

Or go ahead and vote him into the DB Hall Of Fame, if that's the best to which we aspire. Tony Bennet & Wynton Marsilias will perform at the induction dinner, what an honor for Hank Mobley that will be.

 

 

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How the hell could a Veteran's Committee skip over Hank?

Your idea of a proper remembrance is great, when I hit the lottery I'm good for it. I'll even endow a Hank Mobley Jazz Festival to take place at the Circle every year.

But in the meantime we have this.

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People still read DB, or care about their polls?! I subscribed once 15 years ago, and didn't renew. 

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In case you're wondering, here are the DB HOF members as voted in by the Veteran's Committee:

Gene Ammons (V 2012)

Eubie Blake (V 2017)

Jimmy Blanton (V 2008)

Hoagy Carmichael (V 2016)

Harry Carney (V 2008)

Paul Chambers (V 2011)

Bing Crosby (V 2014)

Tadd Dameron (V 2009)

Baby Dodds (V 2010)

Billy Eckstine (V 2010)

Erroll Garner (V 2008)

George Gershwin (V 2017)

Robert Johnson (V 2013)

Jo Jones (V 2008)

Philly Joe Jones (V 2010)

Jimmie Lunceford (V 2008)

Herbie Nichols (V 2017)

Oscar Pettiford (V 2009)

Sonny Stitt (V 2012)

Dinah Washington (V 2014)

Muddy Waters (V 2015)

Chick Webb (V 2010)

1 minute ago, Dmitry said:

People still read DB, or care about their polls?! I subscribed once 15 years ago, and didn't renew. 

I read it cover to cover almost every month. I still discover some new music by reading it so it has value to me. I don't like their polls a whole lot nor do I agree with their HOF, due to some serious omissions, like the great Hank Mobley :), but it has value for me.

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I agree with Kevin. DB is far from perfect, but they've done articles on Roscoe, Wadada, Threadgill, etc.

The other "jazz" magazines are worse (IMO) & DB is the only one I still read.

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3 hours ago, JSngry said:

The days of them even being a token "forward looking" mag are long over.

Hey, let's have some fun with that line, shall we? 

"The days of Jazz even being a token "forward looking" musical genre are long over."

And why? Because Jim Sangrey said so! Look man, HE was THERE! And he doesn't much approve of anything that has happened since he left. So shove your little Hall Of Fame, whether the fans want it or not. I mean, what the fuck do THEY know?! THEY weren't THERE! 

Switch back into philosophical mode, or free association mode, or whatever (hey, I'll be glad to join you since I'm not working today). This has already gone beyond absurd, and is now teetering on mindless curmudgeon bullshit rambling. 

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Another bizarre discussion, to rival the departed donation one. 

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Not so much a bizarre discussion as it is one person attempting to shit on a time-honored tradition of fans wanting to express posthumous gratitude and honors to an artist whose work they admire and respect 

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DB Hall of Fame is not even at the level of a non-American postage stamp (of which a surprising many have featured jazz musicians!).

At least Metronome made records with their poll winners. And at least down beat made compilation albums from their poll winners way back in the day (and less back in the day, one great and one ok PBS shows featuring their poll winners. At least.

But is there now, or has there ever been, at least as much as a local dinner to celebrate anybody's selection into the Down Beat Hall Of Fame? If there is/has been, I'm not aware, and will gladly be corrected.

But even if that, yeah, Hank Mobley, you know I love him, always have always will. But this DB HOF thing, there's no there there, it's just another list, made by list-lovers for list-lovers. Not to say that you can't be a jazz lover and a list lover, but you know make that list, check it twice, go to the grocery store and buy some rice.

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Like Mozart or Bach need to be in some kind of hall of fame to be appreciated. Or Coltrane, Hank...or anyone else.

I'm w/Jim. "Back then" the poll winners were alive and these polls mattered, or at least it seems that way to me. This DB Hall of Fame is just a bunch of bullshit. IMHO.

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It's not bullshit for those who care about such things, but what kind of a thing is being cared about?. It's meaningless in any tangible way. There's no money, no career enhancement, no plaque, no wall, no building, no dinner, no dance, no VIP back room with drugs of choice, no bridge, no street name, no park, no historical marker, no special GPS coordinate, nobody to feel the love except for the list-makers, and nobody to look at the list except db readers and Wikipedia users.

If it makes somebody to feel good to get involved in this thing, go ahead. Just don't expect anything other than to be able to open up a copy of Down Beat, look at the HOF results, and then say, hey - I helped put him there, right there, on that page, ME! And then....nothing.

Enjoy!

18 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

75B8C5CD-B881-4BC1-BDA7-4F1FA31CB14C.jpeg

Sometimes I need a cell phone to find a gas station so I can take a poop, close enough.

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http://downbeat.com/archives/detail/downbeat-hall-of-fame

DownBeat Hall of Fame

A–B

Muhal Richard Abrams (C 2010)
Cannonball Adderley (R 1975)
Gene Ammons (V 2012)
Louis Armstrong (R 1952)
Albert Ayler (C 1983)
Chet Baker (C 1989)
Count Basie (R 1958)
Sidney Bechet (C 1968)
Bix Beiderbecke (C 1962)
Tony Bennett (R 2015)
Ed Blackwell (C 1993)
Eubie Blake (V 2017)
Art Blakey (R 1981)
Jimmy Blanton (V 2008)
Lester Bowie (C 2000)
Michael Brecker (R 2007)
Clifford Brown (C 1972)
Ray Brown (R 2003)
Dave Brubeck (R 1994)

C–D

Hoagy Carmichael (V 2016) 
Harry Carney (V 2008)
Benny Carter (C 1977)
Betty Carter (C 1999)
John Carter (C 1991)
Ron Carter (R 2012)
Paul Chambers (V 2011)
Don Cherry (C 2017) 
Charlie Christian (C 1966)
Kenny Clarke (C 1988)
Nat “King” Cole (R 1997)
Ornette Coleman (R 1969)
John Coltrane (R 1965)
Chick Corea (R 2010)
Bing Crosby (V 2014)
Tadd Dameron (V 2009)
Miles Davis (R 1962)
Paul Desmond (R 1977)
Baby Dodds (V 2010)
Johnny Dodds (C 1987)
Eric Dolphy (R 1964)

E–G

Billy Eckstine (V 2010)
Roy Eldridge (C 1971)
Duke Ellington (R 1956)
Bill Evans (C 1981)
Gil Evans (C 1986)
Maynard Ferguson (R 1992)
Ella Fitzgerald (R 1979)
Erroll Garner (V 2008)
George Gershwin (V 2017)
Stan Getz (R 1986)
Dizzy Gillespie (R 1960)
Benny Goodman (R 1957)
Dexter Gordon (R 1980)
Stéphane Grappelli (R 1983)

H–J

Charlie Haden (C 2013)
Jim Hall (C 2014)
Lionel Hampton (R 1987)
Herbie Hancock (R 2005)
Coleman Hawkins (C 1961)
Roy Haynes (C 2004)
Julius Hemphill (C 1995)
Fletcher Henderson (C 1973)
Joe Henderson (R 2001)
Jimi Hendrix (R 1970)
Woody Herman (R 1976)
Andrew Hill (C 2007)
Earl Hines (C 1965)
Milt Hinton (C 2001)
Johnny Hodges (C 1970)
Billie Holiday (R 1961)
Freddie Hubbard (R 2009)
Milt Jackson (R 1999)
Ahmad Jamal (R 2011) 
Keith Jarrett (R 2008)
Antonio Carlos Jobim (R 2002)
James P. Johnson (C 1992)
J.J. Johnson (R 1995)
Robert Johnson (V 2013)
Elvin Jones (C 1998)
Hank Jones (C 2009)
Jo Jones (V 2008)
Philly Joe Jones (V 2010)
Thad Jones (C 1987)

K–M

Stan Kenton (R 1954)
B.B. King (R 2014)
Rahsaan Roland Kirk (C 1978)
Lee Konitz (C 2015)
Gene Krupa (R 1972)
Steve Lacy (C 2005)
John Lewis (C 2002)
Abbey Lincoln (C 2011)
Jimmie Lunceford (V 2008)
Wynton Marsalis (R 2017) 
Jackie McLean (C 2006)
Pat Metheny (R 2013)
Glenn Miller (R 1953)
Charles Mingus (R 1971)
Thelonious Monk (R 1963)
Wes Montgomery (R 1968)
Lee Morgan (R 1991)
Jelly Roll Morton (C 1963)
Paul Motian (C 2012)
Gerry Mulligan (R 1993)

N–P

Fats Navarro (C 1982)
Herbie Nichols (V 2017) 
Joe “King” Oliver (C 1976)
Charlie Parker (R 1955)
Jaco Pastorius (R 1988)
Art Pepper (R 1982)
Oscar Peterson (R 1984)
Oscar Pettiford (V 2009)
Bud Powell (R 1966)

Q–S

Sun Ra (C 1984)
Django Reinhardt (C 1971)
Buddy Rich (R 1974)
Max Roach (C 1980)
Red Rodney (R 1990)
Sonny Rollins (R 1973)
Pee Wee Russell (C 1969)
Artie Shaw (C 1996)
Woody Shaw (R 1989)
Wayne Shorter (C 2003)
Horace Silver (R 1996)
Zoot Sims (C 1985)
Frank Sinatra (R 1998)
Bessie Smith (C 1967)
Jimmy Smith (R 2006)
Sonny Stitt (V 2012)
Billy Strayhorn (R 1967)

T-Z

Art Tatum (C 1964)
Cecil Taylor (C 1975)
Jack Teagarden (C 1969)
Clark Terry (R 2000)
Lennie Tristano (C 1979)
McCoy Tyner (R 2004)
Sarah Vaughan (R 1985)
Joe Venuti (R 1978)
Fats Waller (C 1968)
Dinah Washington (V 2014)
Muddy Waters (V 2015)
Chick Webb (V 2010)
Ben Webster (C 1974)
Randy Weston (C 2016) 
Mary Lou Williams (C 1990)
Tony Williams (C 1997)
Teddy Wilson (C 1987)
Phil Woods (R 2016) 
Lester Young (R 1959)
Frank Zappa (C 1994)
Joe Zawinul (C 2008)

 

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What would be cool would be to empower the music of Hank Mobley outside the increasingly incestuous world of "jazz fans".

Put Dippin' in a commercial for Scoops, hell yeah, somebody asks hey, what's that badass song on the Scoops commercial, some internet hipster will say, oh that's Hank Mobley. Oh wow, Hank Mobley is cool, he's that Scoops guy. He maybe downloads that song for free someplace and then forget about it sooner or later, but the name and the music has been heard. Mission accomplished.

Tell me - how many people are going to read either online or in print that Hank Mobley has been elected to the Down Beat Hall Of Fame and say huh? who is Hank Mobley? Anybody? So, it's kinda like, hey, I'm talking to myself, and boy do I sound GOOD!

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Wow. 

OK, so let me make sure I’ve got this straight. It would be more of an honor for someone to download a Mobley tune, listen to it, and eventually forget it than it would be for him to be entered into a Hall of Fame? 

Am I reading that correctly? 

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Again Jim - if you don't believe in it and (clearly) don't care one iota about it, can't you just ignore us here and let us have our fun with this? I really didn't expect my simple request to fill out a survey would break out into this. It's going off the rails.

My wish was simple really.

Image result for vote for hank

It certainly wasn't to start a debate about the benefits to those elected nor to debate the usefulness of Downbeat and/or their polls.

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5 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

Wow. 

OK, so let me make sure I’ve got this straight. It would be more of an honor for someone to download a Mobley tune, listen to it, and eventually forget it than it would be for him to be entered into a Hall of Fame? 

Am I reading that correctly? 

No, but thanks for playing!

5 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Again Jim - if you don't believe in it and (clearly) don't care one iota about it, can't you just ignore us here and let us have our fun with this? I really didn't expect my simple request to fill out a survey would break out into this. It's going off the rails.

My wish was simple really.

Image result for vote for hank

It certainly wasn't to start a debate about the benefits to those elected nor to debate the usefulness of Downbeat and/or their polls.

Might I suggest that if differing opinions are not what you want to deal with, perhaps pursue your quest in other places than an open, public forum.

But you know, if you gonna talk about how The Down Beat Critics Poll Don't Talk About Straight-Ahead Jazz, then the answer is the same there as it is here - it really doesn't matter.

I mean, bring up down Beat & Polls,...there are multiple opinions there, have been, and from long before I was born. And there was exponentially more real-time weight to all that then than there is now. Hell, there was more weight to them 20 years ago than there is now. The landscape of music awareness has changed, and down beat is really not relevant except for those who can't break a habit. And yes, there are many habits I can't break myself. But down beat is not one of them.

Hey, if it'll make you feel better, if I get some free time, I will go ahead and vote for Hank. No harm, even if no benefit. If I get that much free time.

No promises, though, ok? :)

 

 

 

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