jabird

Potential Undocumented Charlie Parker Recording

34 posts in this topic

Hi everyone!
First time poster here looking for some assistance.  I recently came across the following record and it looked interesting:
https://imgur.com/z52h9G7
https://imgur.com/Mu5gCod

The title says "Relaxin at Camarillo".  This was originally recorded by someone named Charlie Parker but there is no artist name on it.  Dayton Recording studios is in Kansas City and I couldn't find any record of Charlie being there except in 42-43, while "Relaxin" was released in 47'.
The only other labels I was able to find was the following:
https://www.discogs.com/Big-Bob-Dougherty-And-His-Bobcats-Ramblin-At-Random-Trees/release/9253378

Though this one is blue and has the artist's name, it was released in 1944.

This morning I got the record digitized and found out it had a Side A and B!
Here are some clips from them:
A - https://clyp.it/4o131e0e
B - https://soundcloud.com/jake-k-553205636/clyp-side-b

The person who digitized it says it's a 78 RPM Acetate.
Are there any Jazz aficionados out there who could help identify the artist on here?

Thanks!

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i say no way it sounds at all like Bird, although it is bebop music of some sort. And yea the city/timeframe seems off.  This is absolutely bebop though and something interesting.

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Youre welcome my guy, the Charlie Parker tone and style just isnt there when I hear it, esp for something from '47- peak bird.

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I don't think there's anything saying this was created in 47'.  Is there a chance this was recorded in his later years with some pickup musicians while he was really started to be affected by his addiction.  Are you able to identify the B side at all?

I was finally able to identify the B side!  It's another Charlie Parker song called "Stupendous"

 

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Have you just become interested in jazz?

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The potential of having a piece of history has made me research jazz for the past 16 hours! :) (and possibly all night)

 

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Posted (edited)

I listened to the clips and that’s not Bird. Can’t tell you who it is but I can tell you who it isn’t.

Contrast your clip with this and you can probably hear the difference.

 

Edited by Brad

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The Relaxin version sounds way more sloppy than this but the B side Stupendous sounds really close to his style?  At least to my ears.

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16 minutes ago, jabird said:

I've decided to post the full recording of Side B for your consideration.

This version of "Stupendous" is nearly 5 minutes long while the released version is around 3 minutes.  Let me know what you think!

https://soundcloud.com/jake-k-553205636/jk-album-side-02-raw?in=jake-k-553205636/sets/fools-gold-raw

Can't play it. Seems to have been removed ...

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Stylistically and strength-wise It's not Bird, although it's quite a good alto solo. Who else is on it I can't say. I like the first trumpet solo (sounds like there are two different trumpets), maybe even 2 altos - the second alto solo seems to differ from the first and could be a young Sonny Criss (?). The tenor reminds me a little of early Alan Eager ... nah, impossible. And why is it a Damon acetate? Bird made those great Vic Damon acetates in KC in 1942 ... Same place/ company? Stranger and stranger ...

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Posted (edited)

I just listened to part of the file Jake (jabird) most recently posted and it does sounds like Bird but I’m wondering if it’s an air check (recording from the radio, for Jake’s benefit).

Re: Quasimodo’s post, what little I can find about the Damon label, is that Damon was Vic Damon’s company. 

Here’s information about the 1943 Damon session from Peter Losin’s site.

Charlie Parker Session

Who knows, maybe it’s an undiscovered session. 

Edited by Brad

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the info guys!

Here's some more for ya.  

Here's the full side A: https://soundcloud.com/jake-k-553205636/jk-album-side-01-raw-1?fbclid=IwAR3tz7MH0vJQLV3hcYjV278NCtlCHti5UtFAufzNWYvqajSEGjfpXuX3be4

 

What's interestering is there was a release by Dial featuring this exact same front and back side in 1948.

 

Charlie Parker All Stars* ‎– Relaxing At Camarillo / Stupendous

Label: Dial Records (3) ‎– 1030

 

If this isn't Parker, I would love to know where it came from and why someone recorded their own version of an A and B side of a released single?

 

Also Vic Damon (Owner of Damon Studios) kept a logbook of all recordings: https://library.umkc.edu//Manuscripts/Collections/Digital/damon-logbook.pdf

 

The Dial matrices for the release were D 1071-A and D 1074-A. If you go to Vic Damon's journal on page 33 and look at those matrices, you will see both of them are crossed out, along with "above not destroyed, marked in error" under 1074-A . the dates for those recordings are Jan 24, 1947. Relaxin was recorded for dial on Relaxin recorded Feb 25 1947.

 

Pg 31 - D-1040 thru D-1045 For Cadet Record Co. Hollywood. Another Hollywood label above that, theres a connection to hollywood around the timeframe of camarillo...

 

 

Could all just be coincidences though since they both would've used the same D- format I think?  Still strange those exact numbers are right around the same timeframe...

Edited by jabird

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5 minutes ago, jabird said:

Thanks for the info guys!

Here's some more for ya.  

Here's the full side A: https://soundcloud.com/jake-k-553205636/jk-album-side-02-raw-1

 

What's interestering is there was a release by Dial featuring this exact same front and back side in 1948.

 

Charlie Parker All Stars* ‎– Relaxing At Camarillo / Stupendous

Label: Dial Records (3) ‎– 1030

 

If this isn't Parker, I would love to know where it came from and why someone recorded their own version of an A and B side of a released single?

 

That’s also Stupendous.

I realize you aren’t a jazz fan so please don’t take offense but we all know about the Dial sessions. They are quite famous.  They’ve been released in various forms.  I’m sure you can find them on YouTube. 

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43 minutes ago, jabird said:

Thanks for the info guys!

Here's some more for ya.  

Here's the full side A: https://soundcloud.com/jake-k-553205636/jk-album-side-01-raw-1?fbclid=IwAR3tz7MH0vJQLV3hcYjV278NCtlCHti5UtFAufzNWYvqajSEGjfpXuX3be4

 

What's interestering is there was a release by Dial featuring this exact same front and back side in 1948.

 

Charlie Parker All Stars* ‎– Relaxing At Camarillo / Stupendous

Label: Dial Records (3) ‎– 1030

 

If this isn't Parker, I would love to know where it came from and why someone recorded their own version of an A and B side of a released single?

 

Also Vic Damon (Owner of Damon Studios) kept a logbook of all recordings: https://library.umkc.edu//Manuscripts/Collections/Digital/damon-logbook.pdf

 

The Dial matrices for the release were D 1071-A and D 1074-A. If you go to Vic Damon's journal on page 33 and look at those matrices, you will see both of them are crossed out, along with "above not destroyed, marked in error" under 1074-A . the dates for those recordings are Jan 24, 1947. Relaxin was recorded for dial on Relaxin recorded Feb 25 1947.

 

Pg 31 - D-1040 thru D-1045 For Cadet Record Co. Hollywood. Another Hollywood label above that, theres a connection to hollywood around the timeframe of camarillo...

 

 

Could all just be coincidences though since they both would've used the same D- format I think?  Still strange those exact numbers are right around the same timeframe...

If these were recorded in KC in January of 1947 I don't think it was Bird. He was in Los Angeles that whole time I'm pretty sure. 

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Not saying they were recorded in KC or the exact time range.  If you look through the logbook, you can see Vic was doing many different press runs for various Hollywood Record labels right around that time.  

 

EX: On Pg 31 - D-1040 thru D-1045, he was doing a run for Cadet Record Co., a jazz-based label located in Hollywood, Date - Oct 1946

12 hours ago, Quasimado said:

Stylistically and strength-wise It's not Bird, although it's quite a good alto solo. Who else is on it I can't say. I like the first trumpet solo (sounds like there are two different trumpets), maybe even 2 altos - the second alto solo seems to differ from the first and could be a young Sonny Criss (?). The tenor reminds me a little of early Alan Eager ... nah, impossible. And why is it a Damon acetate? Bird made those great Vic Damon acetates in KC in 1942 ... Same place/ company? Stranger and stranger ...

Quasi, very strange you say this!   I found a list of Parker's tour dates at in 1948 at http://plosin.com/milesahead/Bird/Charlie%20Parker%20Chronology%201948.html.

He was in kansas city april 27-28 and nov 25th,

His tour group in November was: Howard McGhee (tp); Tommy Turk (tb); Sonny Criss, Charlie Parker (as); Coleman Hawkins, Flip Philips (ts); Al Haig (p); Tommy Potter (b); J. C. Heard (d); Kenny Hagood (voc)

And in April was: Red Rodney (tp); Charlie Parker (as); Dexter Gordon, Flip Philips (ts); Duke Jordan (p); Barney Kessel (g); Tommy Potter (b); Stan Levey (d).

Sarah Vaughan (voc) acc. by Jimmy Jones (p

 

If you take a gander at the November group, you'll see two different altos, the Bird and Sonny Criss..... :o

 

 

 

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Who's the bari player?

And what's the red # at the top of the acetate's label?

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No idea who any of them are.  That's what im trying to figure out.  The red says "orig." which im assuming stands for original.

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Posted (edited)

15 hours ago, Quasimado said:

Stylistically and strength-wise It's not Bird, although it's quite a good alto solo. Who else is on it I can't say. I like the first trumpet solo (sounds like there are two different trumpets), maybe even 2 altos - the second alto solo seems to differ from the first and could be a young Sonny Criss (?). The tenor reminds me a little of early Alan Eager ... nah, impossible. And why is it a Damon acetate? Bird made those great Vic Damon acetates in KC in 1942 ... Same place/ company? Stranger and stranger ...

I was about to say this; sounds to me like there are two different altos; the first solo is older-styled, has some Benny Carter-like feel to it; 2nd seems more of a bebopper.

Edited by AllenLowe

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