Why You Need A Jukebox & Jazz 45s To Put In It.

[JSngry]

You need to hear THAT shit coming out loud and proud and nasty and BIG, none of this clean soul-neutral digital shit, I mean that's good for when it's made that way, but THIS kind of thing was NOT made for THAT, ok?!?!?!?!?

Don't let them erase the reality of that sound, and the people it was made to, and WHY. We don't need to forget any of that, and what we don't know is sure gonna hurt somebody. POWER TO THE MOTHERFUCKING 45 MIX!

 

[Chuck Nessa]

My father had a 45 jukebox and I filled it with prime stuff. A few years later I saw the box was gone and he had sold it with my records inside. My brother said "cripes Dad, the records were worth more than the box".

[JSngry]

You know what the deal is, they mixed those 45s to pop and scream as needed, when in doubt make it pop and scream more. People won't respond to that if it's not right to begin with, but if it IS right, they respond to it more.

If you're old enough to have been in a real club with a real jukebox that has plenty of jazz 45s, you know what I mean. And Jack Mc Duff 45s...geez, there was one room that had the OF "Rock candy" in there and it must have been played the proverbial 50 bajillions time, and the more wore it got, the louder it screamed and popped. With not any real imagination, you could smell the sweat and see the asses and feet that all that wore on that 45 induced over decades.

I don't care if "we" don't really do "that" anymore, but dammit, a species that doesn't even know that it can do that is doomed to Borg-dom.

Listen to this, listen to where that bass is in the mix, not pumped up artificially, just put all the way in there, because you want people to get that groove, you but it in the bass. And mix it to pop, if there's pop to be had, you pop it up all the more, them percsussions, Eddie's sound, don't blame people for responding to this!

I've got this on 45, LP, and CD, and I swear to god, nothing pops like the OG 45.

 

[Chuck Nessa]

The lounge of the Student Union in Iowa City had a bunch of Blue Note stuff on it. This would be 1962/3. Some parts one and two. Blakey, Silver etc.

[danasgoodstuff]

I love jazz 45s, wish I had more.  But BN did some weird things - 45s with different takes that were only marginally shorter (Senior Blues), edits of things that weren't that long, and not putting things out as singles that seemed naturals, like Horace Parlan's Heading South:

and this on the B-side:

 

[BillF]

11 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

The lounge of the Student Union in Iowa City had a bunch of Blue Note stuff on it. This would be 1962/3. Some parts one and two. Blakey, Silver etc.

Similar in Leeds University at same date. "Milestones" from the 1958 album was a favourite.

[Dan Gould]

11 hours ago, JSngry said:

You know what the deal is, they mixed those 45s to pop and scream as needed, when in doubt make it pop and scream more. People won't respond to that if it's not right to begin with, but if it IS right, they respond to it more.

If you're old enough to have been in a real club with a real jukebox that has plenty of jazz 45s, you know what I mean. And Jack Mc Duff 45s...geez, there was one room that had the OF "Rock candy" in there and it must have been played the proverbial 50 bajillions time, and the more wore it got, the louder it screamed and popped. With not any real imagination, you could smell the sweat and see the asses and feet that all that wore on that 45 induced over decades.

I don't care if "we" don't really do "that" anymore, but dammit, a species that doesn't even know that it can do that is doomed to Borg-dom.

Listen to this, listen to where that bass is in the mix, not pumped up artificially, just put all the way in there, because you want people to get that groove, you but it in the bass. And mix it to pop, if there's pop to be had, you pop it up all the more, them percsussions, Eddie's sound, don't blame people for responding to this!

I've got this on 45, LP, and CD, and I swear to god, nothing pops like the OG 45.

 

1. Is there an LP transfer on youtube to demonstrate this difference?

2. By your definition, it seems to me that you could attain the same result by digitizing and boosting across the board, so that, if its really at 75% of max db's you could bring it to 98%.  Or does 45 crackle play a critical role in this difference? I am presuming that when you say "pop" you don't mean vinyl pops that most people find distracting or annoying in old vinyl. (And, to be sure, if you had an LP transfer of Listen Here you'd need to get rid of those pops before maximization as the boost is across the spectrum and prominent pops will constrain the maximum boostage. 

(For the record, my digital transfers often include substantial boosting of the signal, after pop removal.  I like my music loud, or louder than it was sometimes recorded.)

[JSngry]

You Tube Adio is never going to be a real thing. It's just a sample of a sample.

LPs will usually be "cleaner" than 45s, but that's annoying sometimes c/f my last BFT where I included the 45 of "Wednesday Niht Pray Meeting", a record I had for years before getting a copy of Blues and Roots. The LP was a  letdown the first few times through because it did not have that pop.

When I say "pop", I mean pop as in POP!, a verb rather than a noun.

Also, as with 78s, higher speed then LP.

I'm sure you could digitize the "effect", but the thing to remember is that 45s were mixed to jump out at you from AM radios and jukeboxes. You'll be able to note a difference between the mixes (or maybe it's masterings, yeah, I think that's it, mastering) really, there's no sensory similarity. It's as much a spatial thing as it is anything, a big boomy juke box in a club with carpeting and tables and bodies (few or many)...that's not something digitally or otherwise reproduced without actually having it physically.

I have heard Art Blakey SCREAMING out of a jukebox in a neighborhood jazz club and I have never heard Art Blakey the same way since, either literally or metaphysically.

It was this one:

 

 

[JSngry]

Oh, if there's any ambiguity, this is not at all about "audio" or "sound quality", it's ultimately about a metaphysical sensory experience. I mean, sure you can "measure" it, but that's already removing yourself from the realm. This will not be science!

[mikeweil]

My wife's stepbrother has a jukebox. It sounds terrific! (Even with the generic German pop stuff he has filled in.)