Big Al Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 With the recent Concord sale, it seems a lot of us picked up these two titles. These titles were chosen because they feature the same lineup on both albums and were recorded at roughly the same time. I chose these albums because I've lately become a huge fan of Jimmy Heath's arranging skills. These two stand out because both albums are in a sextet format, but the three-horn lineup contains the unusual choice of a french horn, and the sound of that horn, coupled with Heath's magical arranging, makes the ensemble sound a lot bigger than it is. In fact, letting the french horn take the lead during the opening head of "Gemini" is a master stroke, IMO. The voicings of all three horns are gorgeous throughout both albums. Freddie Hubbard is as outstanding an accompanist as he is a soloist, never getting in the way, but sounding forceful and confident all the same. And then there's Heath's playing which also falls in the same vein; he's the leader, but he cedes the spotlight to his other bandmates so well that this could easily have been credited to a band instead of just one person. Hopefully, the discussion of these two albums (and Heath in general) will last a month. So get to it, y'all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) In a recent thread on jazz highlights of 2007, I named The Quota as the best album I bought during the year. And there were about fifty others! Edited January 2, 2008 by BillF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 If we can talk about Jimmy Heath in general this early on, and his composing/arranging skills in particular, I'd like to sing the praises of his writing for the first Coulmbia Heath Brothers album. Yeah, the "commercial" one. Whatever. Slick, "groove"-based, yeah yeah yeah. Listen to the tunes - they got meat abundant, and the arrangements enhance their flavor, not detract from it. Is there a little "contemporary" influence in there? Hell yeah, but oh well about that. If all such music was made with such subtlety and nuance, it wouldn't be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 If we can talk about Jimmy Heath in general this early on, and his composing/arranging skills in particular, I'd like to sing the praises of his writing for the first Coulmbia Heath Brothers album. Yeah, the "commercial" one. Whatever. Slick, "groove"-based, yeah yeah yeah. Listen to the tunes - they got meat abundant, and the arrangements enhance their flavor, not detract from it. Is there a little "contemporary" influence in there? Hell yeah, but oh well about that. If all such music was made with such subtlety and nuance, it wouldn't be a problem. What's it called? When did it come out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Passin' Thru 1978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyo Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Great choice, I love those two albums! Which reminds me - I got Heath's Landmark albums not too long ago, I should really listen to those now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) Heath's entire Riverside output is worth hearing. Except for one album, all of his albums for the label were in a group no smaller than a sextet. THE THUMPER is similar to the two albums at hand, with the difference being a trombone being in place of the French horn. Then there's REALLY BIG which lives up to its title, both literally and figuratively. All of these albums showcase Heath's expert arranging skills. The lone exception to these is ON THE TRAIL, a quintet album with Kenny Burrell as the other lead instrument. This one's the loosest of the bunch, but no less lovely. Heath blows his ass off all over this album. I was fortunate enough to find a vinyl copy of this cheap recently, green-label original I think. The sound is wonderful. Edited January 4, 2008 by Big Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 A real pleasure to be spurred on play these again. There's not much to add to what's be said above. Maybe some of the tracks could be a little longer but in the main they are just about right as they are. Hubbard sparkles on all his contributions and the rhythm section is exemplary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 FWIW, these two albums fit perfectly onto one CD for maximum listening pleasure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I only just ordered some more Heath. Got a japanese edition of The Quota sometime last summer when the US version was gone (seems it was there again for the Concord sale? Not so "Swamp Seed", that one's impossible to find...). Anyway, I liked "The Quota" a lot, looking forward to hearing "The Thumper", "Triple Threat" and "On the Trail" (no hurry on the big band one, that should be around for a while...) Other than that so far I only have one Heath album, a disc on Prevue, "Picture of Heath" - a very fine quartet album with Barry Harris, Sam Jones and Billy Higgins. Heath has a notably beautiful and controlled sound on soprano as well! Is he actually still performing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) He places ads regularly in down beat that he's available for clinics, concerts etc. I have Triple Threat and like it very much, a copy of The Quota is on its way, as is The Thumper - I recently found the latter two on ebay for good prices. I started late on Heath, as I didn't like his solos phrases that much, but his spirit, the quality of his writing and his choice of musicians is of the finest. And for a dedicated Julius Watkins collector, those two are a must! Edited January 21, 2008 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 And for a dedicated Julius Watkins collector, those two are a must! Yeah they are! Watkins truly shines as a soloist and an ensemble player on these! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 My favorite Jimmy Heath album is The Gap Sealer (Cobblestone). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Heath's entire Riverside output is worth hearing. Except for one album, all of his albums for the label were in a group no smaller than a sextet. THE THUMPER is similar to the two albums at hand, with the difference being a trombone being in place of the French horn. Then there's REALLY BIG which lives up to its title, both literally and figuratively. All of these albums showcase Heath's expert arranging skills. The lone exception to these is ON THE TRAIL, a quintet album with Kenny Burrell as the other lead instrument. This one's the loosest of the bunch, but no less lovely. Heath blows his ass off all over this album. I was fortunate enough to find a vinyl copy of this cheap recently, green-label original I think. The sound is wonderful. Yeah, On The Trail is a doozy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) The Thumper and The Quota finally hit my mailbox this morning - the latter turned out to be a pristine sounding Japanese copy! Both are great albums. Heath's writing is so great, he deserves a place among jazz' best arrangers, IMHO. If The Quota and Triple Threat fit on one CD, why didn't Fantasy release them as a twofer CD in the first place? It might have given that music wider exposure than two high-priced Limited Edition OJCs. As I noticed there are no covers pics, well, here we go, all of Jimmy Heath's Riverside albums, some of the best the label ever released: Edited January 23, 2008 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 The Thumper and The Quota finally hit my mailbox this morning - the latter turned out to be a pristine sounding Japanese copy! Both are great albums. Heath's writing is so great, he deserves a place among jazz' best arrangers, IMHO. If The Quota and Triple Threat fit on one CD, why didn't Fantasy release them as a twofer CD in the first place? It might have given that music wider exposure than two high-priced Limited Edition OJCs. Totally agree! It probably also didn't help that they were both (along with all the other Heath titles) released as Ltd. Edition OJCs! As I noticed there are no covers pics, well, here we go, all of Jimmy Heath's Riverside albums, some of the best the label ever released: Thanks for posting those! Totally agree with your comment above! AFAIC, these and most of Blue Mitchell's output define what I like to call the "Riverside sound:" nicely arranged small group sessions that sound a lot bigger (ie. more personnel) than they really are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) The Thumper and The Quota finally hit my mailbox this morning - the latter turned out to be a pristine sounding Japanese copy! Both are great albums. Heath's writing is so great, he deserves a place among jazz' best arrangers, IMHO. If The Quota and Triple Threat fit on one CD, why didn't Fantasy release them as a twofer CD in the first place? It might have given that music wider exposure than two high-priced Limited Edition OJCs. As I noticed there are no covers pics, well, here we go, all of Jimmy Heath's Riverside albums, some of the best the label ever released: You convinced me! I've just placed a pricey order for a used copy of Swamp Seed. I already have the rest of of your selection, with the exception of On the Trail, and they're truly excellent. I was also helped to part with my money by Cook and Morton, who come on very strongly for Swamp Grass in their Penguin Guide. Edited January 23, 2008 by BillF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 People who like the Jimmy Heath albums we've been discussing will certainly go for OJC/Riverside's A Sure Thing. Although under the leadership of Blue Mitchell, it has the stamp of Heath all over it: he plays tenor on it and is arranger on six of the seven tracks. Personnel from the Heath albums reappear here too, most notably Julius Watkins and Albert Heath. The greatest resemblance is to Really Big!: both feature a nine-piece group playing Heath arrangements. Last but not least, it's a superb record; like the Heath albums, a somewhat forgotten masterpiece! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 People who like the Jimmy Heath albums we've been discussing will certainly go for OJC/Riverside's A Sure Thing. Although under the leadership of Blue Mitchell, it has the stamp of Heath all over it: he plays tenor on it and is arranger on six of the seven tracks. Personnel from the Heath albums reappear here too, most notably Julius Watkins and Albert Heath. The greatest resemblance is to Really Big!: both feature a nine-piece group playing Heath arrangements. Last but not least, it's a superb record; like the Heath albums, a somewhat forgotten masterpiece! Yes! I find a lot of similarities between Blue's mid-size (sextet & greater) sessions and Heath's albums. Both men's Riverside albums are extremely enjoyable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) The Thumper and The Quota finally hit my mailbox this morning - the latter turned out to be a pristine sounding Japanese copy! Both are great albums. Heath's writing is so great, he deserves a place among jazz' best arrangers, IMHO. If The Quota and Triple Threat fit on one CD, why didn't Fantasy release them as a twofer CD in the first place? It might have given that music wider exposure than two high-priced Limited Edition OJCs. As I noticed there are no covers pics, well, here we go, all of Jimmy Heath's Riverside albums, some of the best the label ever released: You convinced me! I've just placed a pricey order for a used copy of Swamp Seed. I already have the rest of of your selection, with the exception of On the Trail, and they're truly excellent. I was also helped to part with my money by Cook and Morton, who come on very strongly for Swamp Grass in their Penguin Guide. Swamp Seed arrived today, a U.K. dealer managing to get it to me in less than two days - and it's great! Can't resist bop bands that include French horn and tuba as I'm a devotee of the Miles Davis nonet. Perhaps it was the presence of Donald Byrd on Swamp Seed , but I was reminded of the Byrd/Gryce Jazz Lab when they added four horns including French horn and tuba. Edited January 25, 2008 by BillF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 (edited) I once had a Japanese LP copy of Swamp Seed - I was a big Herbie Hancock fan, still am, and bought it for him and the french horns in the first place, but I sold it later, even before the OJC CD came along, and never got around to buying the CD. In retrospect I find it the weekest of the bunch - the arrangements are not as brilliant as on the Really Big or Sextet albums, IMO, and the tunes not as strong - but maybe that's just me or my memory fools me. It seems Orrin Keepnews used Jimmy Heath quite often - there even is a tune written and arranged by Heath on a Riverside Mongo Santamaria album, Live At The Village Gate - "Mongo's Groove". Any other Riverside sessions he contributed arrangements to (*) or just played on? Already mentioned or in my collection - have to check later for details: Blue Mitchell - A Sure Thing* Mongo Santamaria Live At The Village Gate* Nat Adderley & the Big Sax Section - That's Right!* Blue Mitchell - Blue Soul Sam Jones - The Soul Society Sam Jones - The Chant Sam Jones - Down Home Edited January 26, 2008 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 (edited) But the rarest Jimmy Heath appearance on Riverside is: - A Jazz Version of Kean -: The Riverside Jazz Stars: Clark Terry -1 (fluegelhorn, trumpet) Ernie Royal -2 (trumpet) Blue Mitchell (trumpet) Melba Liston (trombone -1, arranger/conductor -2) Julius Watkins (french horn) George Dorsey (alto saxophone) Jimmy Heath (tenor saxophone, arranger -4) Arthur Clarke (baritone saxophone) Bobby Timmons (piano) Ron Carter (bass) Albert Heath (drums) Ernie Wilkins (arranger -3, conductor -1) New York City, October 31 & November 1, 1961 Chime in! -1,3 Elena -1,4 The Fog and and the Grog -1,3 Inevitable -1,3 The Look Upon My Love -1,4 Sweet Danger -1,4 Penny Plain -2 Willow Willow Willow -2 All tracks on Riverside RLP (9)397 This was never reissued, not even on LP, not even in Japan! Edited January 26, 2008 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 I once had a Japanese LP copy of Swamp Seed - I was a big Herbie Hancock fan, still am, and bought it for him and the french horns in the first place, but I sold it later, even before the OJC CD came along, and never got around to buying the CD. In retrospect I find it the weekest of the bunch - the arrangements are not as brilliant as on the Really Big or Sextet albums, IMO, and the tunes not as strong - but maybe that's just me or my memory fools me. It seems Orrin Keepnews used Jimmy Heath quite often - there even is a tune written and arranged by Heath on a Riverside Mongo Santamaria album, Live At The Village Gate - "Mongo's Groove". Any other Riverside sessions he contributed arrangements to (*) or just played on? Already mentioned or in my collection - have to check later for details: Blue Mitchell - A Sure Thing* Mongo Santamaria Live At The Village Gate* Nat Adderley & the Big Sax Section - That's Right!* Blue Mitchell - Blue Soul Sam Jones - The Soul Society Sam Jones - The Chant Sam Jones - Down Home Yes, I accept the points you make about about Swamp Seed. It isn't quite the album that Really Big! is - or Triple Threat or Quota for that matter. But I personally prefer it to Thumper, which is much more of a blowing session. (I'm very much into arranged modern jazz.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 I once had a Japanese LP copy of Swamp Seed - I was a big Herbie Hancock fan, still am, and bought it for him and the french horns in the first place, but I sold it later, even before the OJC CD came along, and never got around to buying the CD. In retrospect I find it the weekest of the bunch - the arrangements are not as brilliant as on the Really Big or Sextet albums, IMO, and the tunes not as strong - but maybe that's just me or my memory fools me. It seems Orrin Keepnews used Jimmy Heath quite often - there even is a tune written and arranged by Heath on a Riverside Mongo Santamaria album, Live At The Village Gate - "Mongo's Groove". Any other Riverside sessions he contributed arrangements to (*) or just played on? Already mentioned or in my collection - have to check later for details: Blue Mitchell - A Sure Thing* Mongo Santamaria Live At The Village Gate* Nat Adderley & the Big Sax Section - That's Right!* Blue Mitchell - Blue Soul Sam Jones - The Soul Society Sam Jones - The Chant Sam Jones - Down Home Yes, I accept the points you make about about Swamp Seed. It isn't quite the album that Really Big! is - or Triple Threat or Quota for that matter. But I personally prefer it to Thumper, which is much more of a blowing session. (I'm very much into arranged modern jazz.) Respectfully disagree with you guys about Swamp Seed; I think it is almost the equal of REALLY BIG! However, like BillF, I also really dig arranged jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 But the rarest Jimmy Heath appearance on Riverside is: - A Jazz Version of Kean -: The Riverside Jazz Stars: Clark Terry -1 (fluegelhorn, trumpet) Ernie Royal -2 (trumpet) Blue Mitchell (trumpet) Melba Liston (trombone -1, arranger/conductor -2) Julius Watkins (french horn) George Dorsey (alto saxophone) Jimmy Heath (tenor saxophone, arranger -4) Arthur Clarke (baritone saxophone) Bobby Timmons (piano) Ron Carter (bass) Albert Heath (drums) Ernie Wilkins (arranger -3, conductor -1) New York City, October 31 & November 1, 1961 Chime in! -1,3 Elena -1,4 The Fog and and the Grog -1,3 Inevitable -1,3 The Look Upon My Love -1,4 Sweet Danger -1,4 Penny Plain -2 Willow Willow Willow -2 All tracks on Riverside RLP (9)397 This was never reissued, not even on LP, not even in Japan! WTF is "Kean"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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