AllenLowe

AHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGRHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH- now it's dead. I euthanized it -

well, there's no nice way of saying this - screw the kids, they've got plenty of outlets and they're kids, after all, and don't know as much as we grownups - let's not forget what they did on their own in Lord of the Flies, when they had the chance -

Isn't he also on one of the Max Roach/Candids?

that's nice - but I prefer to accept my tribute in cash -

there's also one up in Montana - but he's a Baptist -

he figures quick prominently in David Amram's autobiography -

actually, I wasn't really acting the troll - apparently, the troll wants to evoke an angry, scattershot response. I want everyone to say: Allen, we see the light and do humbly agree with you.

the bell trolls for me...

no, I think it's a different Larry Kart - the one from St. Louis -

I'm sorry I missed the idiott festivall. When shall next year's festival commmmence?

well, as Tom Waits once said, I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy - of course, with OP I'm uncertain -

youy know it's weird - but I hate that damned instrument - I love the older players, and Lacy, Bechet, etc - but I cannot listen to the instrument post-1970 no matter who's playing it or how well it's played. I'm not defending myself, as a matter of fact I throw myself on the mercy of the organissimo body, but it's come to be like the jazz flute for me - I hear it and go on to the next cut - anybody else like me here?

well, I only drink when I'm alone or with someone else -

just to let everyone know - I believe I have shipped all orders, as of yesterday - I did get a little confused as some orders I shipped out in advance and some I did not - my apologies in advance; if you do not get your Percy Franc CD by, say, next Monday (and it should be sooner as everything went out first class) - shoot me an email at alowe@maine.rr.com - thanks!

well, I hate to let this thread die, when there's so much money at stake -

just to add, I actually don't think Byas sounds that modern on those early Dizzy Recordings - he plays great, but is clearly from another generation - the tenor in those years is largely caught as an in-between instrument stylistically, thinking also early Gene Ammons with Dizzy's big band. Than there's Don Lanphere with Fats Navarro, more purely modern sides (maybe 1948) - and at this point we have Moody and Sonny R. - hey other old guys out there, are there any other early modern tenors I'm missing (also maybe Ray Abrams) -

well, I think you're reversing cause and effect - I think the Byas we're hearing in 1944-1946 is, at this stage, reacting to the boppers - hence the slight modernization of his sound. Lucky Thompson also first recorded early 40s (I think, or maybe 1939), with Jonah Jones (Commordore I think) and he is also, at this point, primarily a swing tenor, but than a few years later is changed by the modernists - but neither was, out of the gate, a modernist. If we had to pick one, I would say Dexter Gordon, though (and I don't want to start a separate fire storm here) I never found his playing very compelling at any period - given the Savoy recordings, maybe the first bebop tenor player was Bird -

well, I really would not call him a bebopper at this time, but someone who had effected and was effected by beboppers - better to look to Moody or Dexter Gordon or Sonny R. for early beboppers. Byas's tone and rhythm and associations (and repertoire) really hold him apart. And by the way I don't think that Byas/Webster album is really all that good. Webster sounds tired and Byas sounds tense -

I hope all this new publicity doesn't go to his head -

Actually it's not the first time; he used to co-host a children's show, Saturday mornings, with his mother Moms Mobley -

HANK AARON HANK THOMPSON HANK KINGSLEY HANK HANK HANK HANK HANKERHANK WILLIAMS, HANK WILLIAMS JR. HANK WILLIAMS III I GOT A HANKERING FOR HANK HANKHANKS HANDKERCHIEF HANKIETOM HANKSHANKS TOMTOM HANKS HANKSTOMTHEHANKS ARE COMINGTHE HANKSARECOMING THE HANKSARECOMINGHANKENSACK

well, yes, if by second chair you mean everyone after Hawkins -

I think that Max's problem was not just substance abuse, thoug I'm sure that made it worse - as I believe he was clean when he was married to Lincoln -

look, Max has a real history, and he cleaned himself up considerably after the 1940s-1950s (a quote from a pianist I know: "when you were walking down the street and you saw Max coming, you crossed the street.") Still, I think we jazz people tend to overlook some of this stuff, and I don't think that's right. And yes, he did beat up Abby Lincoln.

I will say, respectfully, that to consign Don Byas to "second chair" is utter nonsense - he is one of the GIANTS of the tenor, and you are looking at the wrong period to realize this. Listen to the Savoy's from middle 1940s - some with Max Roach. Amazing stuff, influenced Sonny Rollins. Harmoncally very advanced, predicting bebop clearly. The 1960s stuff is interesting, but has an odd tension that is never really resolved - I think his problem was that like a lot of ageing musicians, he was worried about keeping up with the times and was trying to change his whole rhythmic approach. I even recall remarks he made about Coltrane which indicated a clear jealously, based on the fact that, as he knew, Coltrane was very influenced by him, as were hundreds of tenor players -