David Ayers

Only have the Japanese LP of Urge which has the Marte Roling cover.

I think the issue here is that what's good for the label may not be best for the artist........ Also, it's a model that is once again okay for the Pop stars, but not good for more niche performers - like Jazz artists. In this case the artist owns the label.

The first time I saw Gergiev was in 1991 when he brought Khovanshchina to Edinburgh with what was then called the Kirov, with Olga Borodina. At that time here we had no real idea who he was, and we had barely heard of Borodina. It was fantastic.

That's a lot of concertos!

I am only guessing. The judges' final comment seems to imply that hitherto sound recordings have been treated differently. So in part I wonder whether it is in practice late to set a precedent. I am totally guessing of course. I also think that there are major interests tied up with this form of music distribution which will start to weigh in if it looks like still-fledgling businesses which they support are going to be bankrupted - which it seems would happen quickly if this copyright challenge stands.

Interesting. I am guessing this won't go down. But interesting to see how it plays out.

I have heard Gergiev conduct many times, more than I can count. I have heard him in Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Debussy, Ravel, Tchaikovsky, Scriabin, Szymanowski, Brahms, Mussorgsky, Balakirev, Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, Mahler, Messiaen, Berlioz, Tishchenko (!), Bartok, Mozart, Dutilleux, and probably a few more that I can't bring to mind right now. I am also familiar with a good number of the recordings. It's fair to say I have followed him closely, for better or worse. I know there are different opinions out there, and I am interested to hear what others think. I shall attempt not to reply.

FYI, Ligeti, the BBCSO is performing Alice in Wonderland in March, in a multimedia staging. Not sure what that means. It might interest you. http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/eb3g9r

In an attempt tp get back on topic, I went to look for a Barry Guy title which I had listened to before on Spotify only to find that (most of) the Maya catalog has now been removed from that service. Every label will make its own calculations, which is why I think that the question of payments will find its own level over time. I think the real risk is that streaming might falter. Edited to add: after a more careful look it seems that only SOME of the Maya catalog has been taken down...

Mad Dogs on the Loose! http://nottwo.com/PelnaPlyta.php?Id=490&W=0&Od=&Off=

Not jazz, but Øystein Baadsvik has made quite a solo career, including tuba concertos and recitals recorded for BIS. Several of the concertos appear to have been written for him.

PS if re. Marsh/Konitz, Brubeck/Desmond and MJQ anyone can spot me specific examples I'd be very appreciative. I don't have time for a trawl...

Keep the examples coming folks. It will take me some time before I can work it all out.

It is whether people are doing it over complex changes that interests me. Weren't Holland groups likely to be doing modal stuff?

It is an allusion to NO, in style, and the chords are 20s chords not a bop progression - that's what I mean. I think. These examples will take some working out, I guess.

Looking into these slowly. The Pepper-Marsh track is a 20s song and the joint improv is a bit of probably cod period mummery - so that one doesn't count!

I took my copy to the charity store but they didn't want it.

Just to help me with something I am trying to think about, can anyone think of examples of two bop lead instruments soloing simultaneously? By which I mean, we are used to simultaneous soloing over simple structures, as in early jazz, and we are used to simultaneous soloing over modes, chords, or over no set harmony, as in free jazz, but are there examples of joint soloing over highly complex chorus structures?

Ligeti, you haven't got your facts right. Downloads cost less than physical product and you can play any music file on iTunes, it doesn't have to come from the iTunes Store. Also, iTunes Store purchases are .aac not .mp3. I don't use iTunes that much but I see it as a perfectly ethical enterprise.

I think it is pretty clear that the combined take of the retailer AND the distributor of CDs is greater than the 30% taken by Apple. The general consensus is that most of the yiled on iTunes is reinvested, but I am not making any sort of case about that. I don't feel excited about the issue. As far as can be deduced by browsing around, the general yield to artists on $10 purchase price of a CD at the retailer is maximum $1.00 but usually less, maybe $0.30. On $10 spent at iTunes it is said to be about $0.94 (though conceivably less). It seems to me that iTunes yields to artists are similar to CDs with the advantage that there is no need to manufacture and hold stock. Weirdly, this discussion takes no account of that fact. See, for example, the extensive releases from ICP and Sun Ra which have recently appeared on iTunes. I'd say it is certain that these catalogues are making money for the owners that they simply could not make when the material was - in the main - OOP on CD. Now anyone can find it easily. Not sure how a discussion about streaming morphed into one about iTunes.

My understanding was that the iTunes store is a loss leader for the devices.

On the topic of the advantage to musicians and labels of exposure on Spotify, it is worth remembering that many independent labels, jazz and classical and no doubt all genres, have massive chunks of their catalogues on Spotify. Of course the labels can add or withdraw material at will - ECM were on for a time but plainly thought they were losing money and did a Taylor Swift. When ECM were on Spotify it stimulated me to buy their stuff. But I may be one if a minority using Spotify as an extended sampler, and of course I only bought a few of the many titles I audited. But now I have moved on to Intakt and NotTwo, same principle. Similarly in classical I investigate BIS and Ondine.

Although I don't order from Crazy Jazz in the UK, I always look at his carefully compiled monthly list of UK distributed titles. Many jazz titles have no UK distribution, but it is nevertheless useful information about what is going on. For classical I look at Europadisc which, as well as its web listing, has a PDF of monthly releases in the UK. Since most classical titles make it here, that is useful. I wonder how you guys keep up? Also, in terms of the economics of the business, I constantly marvel at the flow of marginal releases which it is hard to imagine that very many people will buy. I find it interesting to look at the overall pattern of releases. Take a look at December classical releases on the Europadisc site to see what I mean.

Yes it's true. That is what your average punter spends. Of course that includes everybody who buys music, not just collectors. That said, the average spend is probably less now than ever. Few young people pay for music under any circumstances.

Spotify's fees are based on research showing how much the average purchaser spends per month on music. So they reckon that's the tipping point.