couw

catesta, buddy, I see you and I have tastes alike. Pity you couldn't make it to my BFT party. I betcha wouda liked it there. I myself actually started with Miles when a friend of mine made me a tape of KoB. I guess I must have been thinking that that's the way you're supposed to be play a trumpet; I don't remember my initial impressions really. I do know that after a while, dipping my toe deeper in the jazz pond, I got Out to Lunch w/ Hubbard and then I heard Lee Morgan (started with the Procrastinator) and DAMN! That was definitely something different and definitely more to my taste. I have been buying Miles albums every now & then since, but besides my casually liking some of the older stuff, it has never made *click*

who knows....

your daughter?

and gone again...

he's reading the board at this very moment.

this one I think

I like 'em too

I'm probably not the right one to judge this, but I remember reading a (positive) assesment of Miles touching on this, in which it was phrased more like: Miles was there at the right place & time. Not so much of an innovator himself, but rather a catalyst who picked up on stuff others were doing and brought it to the public at large. As I said, I don't have the knowledge on Miles to asses this, but it does sound more likely in that I find it hard to fathom that any one person can come up with so many innovations all by himself.

No worries Vint! The wife's not at home tonight and I think I can squeeze in another listen and I hope to draw some tracks from my collection. I think I can score 5, maybe 6. My guess is that many of the disks are still underway (?). And what you complainin' about anyway! I got Rhino-Man right didn't I? and Mr. Pontiac as well! If we get some momentum, I'm sure we can clear your fortress before you get a chance to taunt us again!

damn, besides Jim once having online conversations with himself, this must be a new high (or low, it's how you view it) in post-count boosting. Way to go RDK!

Would you have been that much tempted to click on a thread titled "why my Miles cup is half empty where yours may be half full?" Probably you would, but I bet you were a fraction of a second faster with the current thread title. Anyhow, thank you all for a great discussion! and welcome TedR!

thanks lon, I saw that one too....

bezoar! maybe you shouldn't lick your fur that often...

thanks for your post. I hope I managed to bring across my ideas as you were one of the original instigators of this thread. Just to tear a little at your response: from the three levels you listed, I DO acknowledge the first two (as I wrote - or at least intended to do - in my original post), it's the third where the trouble begins and you seem to agree with my stance at least to some extent. As for trumpet players I do like, I'd list Brownie and Morgan for sure, but my favourite is probably Richard Williams. Why? Because he did that KILLER version of I remember Clifford on Lateef's Pep's Vol 2 disk. And no, I don't like Chet either....

normal people hang around sites named suicidegirls.com nowadays? I must be getting old...

I only found some suicidal kids using it as a tag line on some weird chat board...

it's not from some waffle house commercial is it?

Still formulating this for myself so bear with me. Regarding references to technique in describing why we like some artist, there is a certain aspect of awe or whatever. Just read Jim's posts in this thread describing Miles's sense of time. I think we DO use the argument of technique if it fits our tastes to support those tastes "objectively." I think technique is more than just a bag of tools, it's the mechanism through which an artist expresses emotions. Better tools DO allow for better expression, although in the end it's not what counts of course. So indeed, we don't want to go too far down that road. It's just that I have the impression that we may need to wander down it somewhat and to dismiss the argument completely is also not "fair." I believe there has been a thread about craftsmanship vs. art somewhere, I am too lazy to look it up though...

look at the main forum page, where it says: Powered by Invision Power Board(U) v1.3 Final © 2003 IPS, Inc. way way way at the bottom.

I don't understand the point of this thread. Is it to convince others to hear Miles the way you do? I'm new here, so is it perhaps because your ears are so revered around here that everybody is waiting anxiously to hear why you don't like Miles' sound? I hardly think the onus is on anybody to defend Miles at this point. I think that if you read through the responses you'll get an idea of what this is about. In another thread I was sort of "challenged" to address my dislike of Miles. That's why I started this thread, stating that it is as difficult to describe why I don't like it as it is for others to describe why they do. Hence the "challenge." It's not about defense and attack, it's about sharing some thoughts on our respective tastes.

I wonder to what extent this argument of technique being substantial or not in our appraisal of music holds much water. I have the distinct impression that it is seen as a valid argument when discussing why we like Lee Morgan or Brownie's playing, but is dissed as inconsequential when it comes to Miles. IOW: when the technique is there, it is used to support our taste (to objectify it if you will) and if it's not than it doesn't matter anyhow and we stick to emotional impact. Sorry for using your post to make this point John.

never heard that one I'm afraid.

I'm getting more "support" than I expected. How many of us are around here anyways?

thanks for putting "my taste" in there twice. It needs to be stressed. I agree with you 100% (or more ) that it IS all about taste. I was trying to pin it down a bit, to start a discussion. tomym's reaction drives home one point: it is considered brave NOT to like Miles. That to me is a load of hooey, but I understand the sentiment. The reference to the emperor's clothes wasn't there for no reason. Yet, unlike the emperor, Miles IS wearing clothes of course. I'd rather see him wearing something more stylish and to my tastes though. As for Miles's chops: I hear them on albums like the BNs and the early Prestige stuff, and that makes me wonder all the more: Why don't you use your chops man! PLAY goddammit, don't just blow some spit into your horn! And I hear all these aspects Jim addresses, and he is right: It just doesn't click with me. I don't get it. And I don't want anyone explaining me why I should, but do appreciate Jim expressing why he does. And as I said: I hear the things he is referring to and respect the hell out of you all for liking it. The message of vulnerability expressed with minimalist means, for that I put on Monk doing Just a Gigolo solo. Now THAT's timing and THAT's phrasing that IS to my taste. BTW: I am not that much over Bill Evans either...

stick around for a week and you get the idea of who posts a lot and who doesn't even without the post count... give it up, there are no arguments! it's about being the alpha male!