johnagrandy

I think it was because he didn't empty the spit valve while playing ballads. I'm only joking man ! I love Miles !

"Take It To The Ozone" has got to be one of the most monster burners ever recorded. Freddie used to do that one live all the time. He'd just tear it apart, all over the horn, sometimes starting off way up in the upper register and just keeping the pyrotechnics going for endless choruses. 80s Hub's chops were infinite. I'd pay $100 to see Freddie live play like that again.

If that discography is correct and complete, then looks like "The Cooker" was the first Lee on Blue Note. Unfortunately I don't have it ... but that's probably the place to start to understand the genesis of those breathtaking licks. Although I seem to remember reading somewhere that Diz would have Lee take solos ... ??? "The Cooker" showed up in my mailbox today, and on Night there are only a few brief licks contained in the two aforementioned improvs later in Lee's career. This early version is at a much slower tempo. Lee's solo is absolutely remarkable (especially since he was 19 !) but can't be compared (for better or worse) with his uptempo fire on the later versions mentioned above -- in my opinion purely because of the tempo. Also, no cadenza on this version. As Tunisia was Lee's showpiece number for many years, there's got to be bootlegs out there ......... anyone ??? I wonder if Jeff Hegelsen's can be bribed into transposing these three improvs. Apparently he transcribes trumpet improvs at full speed ... except for Woody where he has to slow it way way down. Anyone know what kind of cookies Jeff favors?

I don't see how one of the hard-bop greats could be the most distinguishable composer. There was so much cross-pollination. Monk is probably the answer, but I gotta vote for Sco in the modern era. He puts a distinctive stamp on every groove, vibe, style, genre, etc. he composes for. I've walked into cafes, restaurants ... "that's Sco !" ... BTW, wanna get unique, what about Woody Shaw ? If he had even 1% the popularity of Monk he'd be up there as an unmistakable composer at the same level. Also: You can never miss a Charlie Hunter tune ... but that's the sound and the groove, more than the composition.

"Freak In" owes a huge debt to Miles 70s of course. But what if you want to listen to that genre but for whatever reason, not Miles himself. Douglas has all the innovative young players playing with him. That's got to say something for him .... Anyway, almost anyone these days can be accused of being non-innovative and derivative. The explosion in forms styles harmonies rhythms etc during the 60s and 70s was almost incomprehensibly vast. Personally I think it comes down to personal taste these days. When a true innovator like Wayne or Woody or Miles or John comes along we'll all know it.

Skerik and Dillon have an antidote for Kenny's Koolaid: http://www.thedeadkennygs.com/ The ONLY "proper jazz venue" show I've been at in easily 10 years where people were actually dancing was Sco's unit a few years back at Kuumbwa. All the deadheads were in the back trippin' and groovin'. The worst I've seen was Brad Mehldau, where he went into a physical tirade because someone sat cross-legged too close to him. What a doofus. A sad statement on jazz as a social music. As for jazz in symphony halls, recital halls, opera houses, etc. WHAT IS THE POINT ???? No one is comfortable, including the musicians. "America's Classical Music" ... do we really need any more of that ? That's why a lot of very talented young jazz instrumentalists are getting into the jam band scene: it's not just the money, it's also the party atmosphere ... it's groovin' with the audience, pass the j's on stage, the pretty girls doing their thing ... whatever ...

I met a couple of the guys working there. Lot of jazz heads on staff. http://eastbayexpress.com/Issues/2006-01-1...ws/feature.html The problem is that their current rating metrics for jazz seem to be too simplistic ... either that or the database doesn't have enough home-brewed or out-of-print jazz CDs in it yet ... for example, for Woody Shaw all they have is what is available on Amazon. But jazz is probably not where the money is ...

Well, I'm getting hooked on Pandora today. The way they connect the jazz tunes is remedial, but it's all high quality stuff. Somebody knew who's who. So what if the only connection between tracks on a "Woody Shaw station" is mostly modern straight-ahead jazz tunes featuring a progressive trumpet. Still a great way to hear a lot of high-quality Blanchard , Roney, Hargrove, Isham I haven't had my ears to yet. People should check this out. It's the future of music -- because (once it evolves) you will be paying for something that would require quite a bit of time to create on your own (even assuming downloading bootlegs) .... and even then you wouldn't get the surprise element of "what's next?" or "what's that?" that radio has always offerred. Plus you can create as many of your own stations as you want and switch amongst them. Imagine switching between an "Art Blakey station" and an "Ornette Coleman station". And it will make it much easier for larger labels to sign smaller local unknown groups ... because they just add them into the overall libs they sell to intermediaries like Pandora who sell them to Sirius or iTunes or whomever. It makes the lib that much more valuable because people need variety and they crave the unknown. The question of losing money does not arise: You don't have to swing for the out-of-the-park shot every time.

If Savage Beast ... uhh, I mean Pandora adds more jazz into their music genome database then potentially that won't be a problem anymore. They certainly have the talent to pull this off. Currently however they have to spend lots of time figuring out how to rate various Eminem and 50 Cent raps for obsenity on a scale of 1 to 5 ... "let's see ... three 'm/f', two 'bitch slaps', one 'cap his ass', one 'fuck the police' ... that's about a 3, eh?" Looks like some effort has gone in the jazz direction : dialing-up Greg Osby Radio gives Steve Lacy "Hornin' In", Wayne Shorter "Valse Triste (Live)", Chris Potter "Star Eyes (for Charlie Parker)", Greg Osby "Visitation (Live)", Steve Lacy "Four In One", Dexter Gordon "I Was Doing Allright", Gregory Tardy "Forgiveness", William Parker Quartet "Sound Unity (Live), Terence Blanchard "My Only Thought Of You", "Nick @ Night" by Nicholas Payton, Eric Reed "Cosa Nostra (Our Thing)" ... dialing-up Kurt Rosenwinkel Radio gives Kurt Rosenwinkel "Heartcore", Chicago Underground Quartet "Tunnel Chrome", Kurt Rosenwinkel "The Kloister", Enrico Pieranunzi "My Old Flame", Kurt Rosenwinkel "Zhivago", Terence Blanchard "Sidney", Myron Walden "Like A Flower Seeking The Sun", Robert Walker "El Cuervo", Curlew "Sensible Shoes/Proper Fit", Brecker Brothers "Song For Barry" ... .... uhhh .... this making sense to anyone ? Are there really definite musical connections between these selections or is it more like all the modern jazz in their database being randomly distributed across whatever modern jazz musician stations you create ? Well, it's actually kinda a workin' for me ( ! I'm glad I got hipped to William Parker and Robert Walker ! , the latter of whom must be pretty obscure because I had to Google for 5 mins to find metion of him: Martin Johnson of Jazz Times has his CD #10 for 2005 ) ... I think nothing beats having your own vast collection of music ... but how to keep up? I guess I'll try Pandora at my workplace or in the car where I'm not paying as much attention to what I'm listening to. Most of the jazz I listen to at home makes it impossible for me to get any work done. If any Robert Walkers sneak in then my company's productivity loses. CD sales have been falling for years, meanwhile hrs/wk radio/web (and soon cell device) listening has been on a steep upward trend ... so clearly Pandora is onto something big ... but whether it can ever really apply to jazz is another question ... In theory, Pandora could steer those knowledgable of big jazz names to underground names. Level the playing field ??? But would anyone actually stop and buy anything ? Or would they just use Pandora more and more , creating a "station" for each one of their favorite jazz musicians , including the obscure ones they just found out about? Another possibility is that jazz listeners are just too hip and knowledgeable to have their tastes grocked by a AI algorithm. But also know that lots of folk are hard at work on poker bots that pattern-analyze even the better poker players and look for weaknesses to be exploited. It would be terrible for me to find out the my love for WS and Dex is based on some numerically quantifiable metrics that excite my brain ... It's gotta be BS .... uh, right ? Ok, I created a Robert Walker "El Cuervo" station : Nicholas Payton "Captain Crunch (Meets The Serial Killer)", "Right Now!" by Jackie McClean, John Coltrane "Resolution (Altenate Take)" ... oops I don't see a good connection on any of these ... especially when the spiritual Trane comes on .... but I didn't mind it, at all, but it's supposed to be an "El Cuervo" station ...

All I'm saying is "Who knows?" (Personally, seems to me maybe Dex was alcohol influenced more than any other substance.) Who am I to say? (I didn't know any of these guys.) But from what I've read, many of the substance-loving greats (specifically) often got their doogie fixes before the sessions. Seems like maybe heroin had no effect , or a positive effect , on some % of their playing , to a degree , for a time ...

I remember getting into some sort of vague psuedo-argument with Jim about drugs and Woody Shaw. Looks like WS was way more messed-up than I knew (and I knew all about the heavy smack addiction starting from his early teenage trips to the city) ... but where can you find a single recording where it sounds that way?

If that discography is correct and complete, then looks like "The Cooker" was the first Lee on Blue Note. Unfortunately I don't have it ... but that's probably the place to start to understand the genesis of those breathtaking licks. Although I seem to remember reading somewhere that Diz would have Lee take solos ... ???

I think we'll have to find a serious Lee afficionado to figure this one out ... Here's all the "Night" recordings listed on http://www014.upp.so-net.ne.jp/lee/lee/leedisco.htm Of course it's probably Diz on the solo on the first 4 ... SESSION 005 1956-11-?? Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra SESSION 017 1957-06-14 Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra SESSION 017 1957-06-14 Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra SESSION 018 1957-07-06 Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra SESSION 024 1957-09-29 Lee Morgan Quintet (1) [The Cooker/Lee Morgan] (Blue Note BLP-1578) (2) [Lee Morgan Memorial Album] (Blue Note LA-224-G) (3) [The Complete Blue Note Lee Morgan Fifties Sessions] (Mosaic MD4-162) (4) [blue Trails - The Rare Tracks] (Blue Note [Japan] Toshiba EMI TOCJ-1601) SESSION 034 1958-11-19 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers SESSION 038 1958-12-21 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers SESSION 047 1959-07-04 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers SESSION 051 1959-11-05 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers SESSION 055 1959-11-15 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers SESSION 056 1959-11-23 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers SESSION 057 1959-11-29 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers SESSION 059 1959-12-18 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers SESSION 066 1960-04-23 Art Blakey - Buddy Rich SESSION 072 1960-08-07 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers SESSION 073 1960-08-14 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers (2) [A Night In Tunisia/Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers] (Blue Note BST-84049, CD: B2-84049) SESSION 079 1960-12-08 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers (1) [Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers Lausanne 1960, Part I] (TCB02022) (1) [Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers Lausanne 1960, 2nd set] (TCB02062) SESSION 080 1960-12-06 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers (1) [Live In Stockholm 1960/Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers] (Dragon DRLP-137) (2) [A Jazz Hour With Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers - Blues March] (SPA JHR 73539) SESSION 081 1961-01-02 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers (1) [A Day With Art Blakey 1961/Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers] (Baybridge [Japan] UPS-2148-9) (2) [A Jazz Hour With Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers - Blues March] (SPA JHR 73539) SESSION 082 1961-01-11 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers (1) [TOKYO 1961/Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers] (Somethin' Else [Japan] CJ32-5503) (2) [TOKYO 1961/Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers] (Toshiba EMI [Japan] Video: TT80-1271, LO80-1120) SESSION 086 1961-05-06 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers SESSION 087 1961-05-13 Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers (1) [Paris Jazz Concert/Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers] (Europe1 710373/374) Actually, this can't be the complete list ... can it ?

Almost totally randomly, today I listened back-to-back to the historic Blakey "A Night In Tunisia" live date and then the same tune from Unforgettable Lee !. I was kind of tripped out to hear the same licks , revised and re-ordered , on both of Lee's solos (the former is better, in my opinion, despite Lee's chops being somewhat inferior). This reminded me of all those alt takes where Fats does the same kind of thing. But I didn't know Lee did this much ... Does anyone have the full roster of Lee "Tunisia" recordings on the tip of their brain? Did he permute on every single one?

I recently got addicted to medium-level dosage "hospital heroin" (Dilaudid) in the months following surgery. Coming off it abruptly was tough. I don't think nicotine or caffeine can compare. I was going out and walking miles in the middle of the night. Interesting medical fact: what the specialist told me was that people almost never die going cold turkey on opiate addictions (and that's why they didn't taper me down). What people can and do die of, though, is going cold turkey on alcoholic-level alcohol consumption (~10+ drinks/day). Very interesting to me. Maybe that's why alcohol is the most dangerous of all. Alcoholics try to stop, but the jones is so easy to satisfy, few ever get there.

I have no clue what you guys are talking about. This is thread is going off the deep end.

I got into Sex Mob from the very beginning (at least as much as I could from the wrong coast) ... Anyway, at first I didn't get it, but then I got it. Recently I loaned all my mob CDs to a musician living in a household of young musicians either with masters degrees in electronic music , or who play professional jazz or classical gigs (one is a decent jazz organist, I know that from hearing him). These guys are heavy into all sorts of avant garde stuff I've never heard of. So the feedback that comes back to me is that they gave it a listen and they all hated the mob's music , all five of them ! I couldn't even get a clear idea of what they thought wrong with it except one guy said it sounded like they were trying too hard. They didn't even listen one tune all the way. So, if these guys aren't getting what Berstein etc. are up to , I'm wondering who out there is ?

Could some of you professional players answer this for me : As far as I know, Dex played almost all his eighths straight. And he played behind the beat most of the time. Yet (to my ear) he swung as much as any player I've heard. Seems there might be some intrinsic connection between the straight 8s and the slight delay in rhythmic resolution versus the rest of the band. (Like it wouldn't have swung as hard if he had played on or ahead of the beat.) I know he knew a thousand little rhythmic motifs so it's probably rather complex how he swung so hard. I'm listening to Homecoming "Gingerbread Boy" right now, and from 00:42 to 02:20 it seems like he doesn't get into anything tricky rhythmically, but from there on I think there are a few decent examples of Dex displaying his unique (?) concept of time. Of course, after Dex starts up WS ... and that's another world. I don't even try to figure it out !

Wasn't "Mulva" Jerry Seinfeld's last guess at remembering her name that blew his chances with "Delores" ?

Hi Tom ! I probably should add a few things: Dex played well that night, not great, but quite well, especially on the ballads. I saw Dex maybe 6 times at KK in 79,80,81 and I don't think he was ever much later than the club's usual 9:30-9:45PM start time, except for that one night. One reason I prefer those days to today's scene though, is that it was WAY more unpredictable back then. Today, many jazz shows can be like a well-documented vacation package: you know pretty much what you're going to experience before you even get there. (For example: I see no reason to see Arturo Sandoval twice). Substance abuse is definitely not the way to go in life, but seems like it was almost an intrinsic part of the lives of the most of the really interesting musicians of the latter 20th and 21st centuries. Kurt Cobain is sort of a good example, except that for the time-period of Nirvana's earlier albums they were too broke to get into horse. And while I now despise Guns 'n Roses' music, reading about their massive booze, coke, and heroin abuse is fascinating. They had a chartered 707 (remodeled as a lounge) that they flew around the world in and basically they did speedballs the entire time up in the air. Slash drinking 2 5ths of Jack a day since his mid-teens ... his tongue stained totally black. Eddie VH waking up each day and drinking vodka non-stop, all through his twenties and thirties (and ultimately ending up with two hip replacements). Scott Weiland (Stone Temple Pilots, Velvet Revolver) might be the most interesting addict to keep an eye on in recent years. I mean it's sick and it's sad, but it's fascinating nonetheless. I guess I'm willing to admit that I'm more interested by these type of musicians than pure and clean musicians like Wynton. (Not to say that I think the world should work this way.)

I saw Dexter at KK on, I think it was, the Homecoming tour, 79 or 80 (I could be wrong on this). For the 9PM set, at somewhere around 9:30 PM (typical start time at KK) Barkan announced the band as they walked on stage. Then he announced Dex, but in walked Dex -- not. The band members joked and played a few riffs for about 10-15 mins, at which point it became apparent that Dex was not in the house. The players left the stage. People started getting restless. Todd made a number of announcements -- the one I remember most was maybe at 10:15 PM. Barkan said that they were out about town looking for Dex and were confident that they'd find him shortly. Time passed ... people had dinner (KK had this tunnel to a Moroccan (?) restaurant), people got drunk ... very few people left (I would say only a handful). The band actually came back on stage at one point but at least one of them got disgusted and walked off, and then the rest did. At 11:00 PM, I think, they let the 11PM ticket holders in, SRO, so it got really packed. It actually was quite an atmosphere. So much expectation. Finally at 11:15 PM the band came on stage, more restlessness, maybe a little piano thing, but nobody stopped talking -- it was loud in there! But no Dex. Then at (at least) 11:30 PM (!) Dex staggers out onto the front of the stage. He was so drunk and/or high that the swaying was downright scary -- we we were nervous that he would fall on us in the first row. Seriously ! But he had this amazing presence: not apologetic, supremely confident, fully in character, as if this was all planned, and 11:30 PM was indeed the right and only time to begin a 9PM set. Just the sight of him made me (and I think most others) forget about the outside world and the concept of time. When he first made eye-contact with the audience it brought all the noise down to just about nothing, and, of course, the audience's forgiveness all came down to his first words. "The following story ... involves a lovely restaurant bar ... at which I was a most welcome guest this evening for many hours ...... actually ... there is more than one bar in this story ...... but only one woman ... a very beautiful woman ... whose acquaintance tonight I am most grateful for." It just cracked everyone up. I mean it was too funny. He'd let us all sit there in anticipation for 2 1/2 hours while he was out bar-hopping with some girl he'd just met. So, I guess I might say that if you think what Dex did that night is not at all funny then maybe that's an indication that his playing is not for you. I don't know. Just throwing the thought out there "for your consumption" ....

But take it up into a larger context. The context Sun Ra illuminates when he speaks of this world as a university where most spend their lives learning to punish themselves. When he speaks about "human potential" as being "beyond the truth" what Sun is referring to is the the destructive nature of a cold and desolate society that destroys belief systems, destroys culture, destroys community, destroys the human soul. What Sun was talking about is waste. Wasted thoughts. Wasted hopes and dreams. Wasted lives. Wasted time on this planet. We live in artificial environments that are initally externally generated, but ultimately self-concocted to make us feel comfortable ... sedated ... in a society gone mad. Others suffer the lonliest and cruelest of fates but in response we just watch and quietly empathize. It's no good. What this world needs, what this country needs, now, is revolution. Peaceful revolution, but revolution nonetheless. People must speak the truth. Musicians must speak the truth because they are among the few who can tap into the mass consciousness. The word has to get out, somehow. We are hated throughout the world. Our leaders are perceived as frauds, our institutions suspect, our culture mocked, our "interventions" in world affairs but a twisted and perverted effort to prop up our selfish and greedy "lifestyle". Some force has to rise up against this wave. This wave of hatred that has gripped strongly ahold of what America represents to the universe. Disaffected exhibitions of musical prowess, archaeologic reconstructions of anachronistic societal contexts with only very indirect relevance to the present, purposeful creation of distinct boundaries between the listener and creator ... none of this will do. Those with the power to communicate on a deep level must meet the challenge and seek to reach out to as many as possible. The music is the message. The message is the music.

Nomenclature might be getting in the way here. It's been called "tape trading" for a long time. If I could re-name it, I would call it "music giving". In my earlier post I talked about the possible ways I could provide music to someone who is interested in an artist, or whom I think would benefit from an artist's music, without either of us spending any money and without breaking the law. I believe that if you can do this, then (on avg , over time) it inevitably increases that artist's income. But my belief has a premise: The premise is that the artist whose music I give has the potential to meaningfully change the life of the recipient for the better. This is why I was talking about "partner-fans". I believe this because it happenned to me. Specifically, the music of Woody Shaw, John Scofield, and Art Blakey permenently changed my life for the better. More than that: this music helped me get through enormously tough times when few other "lamps to guide the way" were around. When speaking of serious artists and serious music I see these persons as tapping into positive forces present in the universe that are extremely powerful. They channel that positive energy to others. They provide clues on understanding and figuring out how to deal with complex, confusing, and self-contradictory value systems. I believe that anyone who is seeking and finds evidence that what they have inside their soul really does exist somewhere out there ... anyone who is inspired by music to better realize their potential ... anyone who because of an artist's music is able to hook-into the universal forces upon which are based positive understanding of oneself and others ... all of those people will support the artist. They will support the artist because the artist has the ability to express what is going on inside that person's soul as they react to a harsh life in a harsh world. And that's incredibly valuable because (if you're like me and write software code all day long, and sometimes all night long) you're never going to have time to figure out how to express this kind of stuff yourself. So, for me, it's a question of how does an artist find his true partners in the endeavor, those who similary perceive the world, and those who similarly "solve the world" on a complex internal level. Now ... if an artist believes that it's "their music" and I'm just "appreciating it" ... then I doubt I would be interested in that artist's music. Ideas belong to the universe because only the universe can figure out if they're any good or not.

But how does that imply guaranteed success hooking up with a 70s rhythm grooves master and early 20-something kids from jam-bands, who while well-known in their circles, and who all proved themselves to be great musicians, had only maybe .01 % of the stature of MMW ? Why not just do another MMW album ? Or start collaborations with rock bands as he later did ? He had to write all that new music, figure out how to play with those younger guys who were coming from another genre and point-of-view, figure out how to sell it to the jazz clubs and the jam-band scene, had to make his old fans happy while winning over the new, deal with all the potential criticism ... AND ... he had to confront his own relative old age and do the whole thing totally sober for the first time ? Not only that ... but maybe he wasn't totally into some of those grooves had get to get into for the music to be so hip. It's sounds like a weird thought , but those were sophisticated improvs he was playing on top of grooves that weren't and couldn't be that cerebral. I think it took a lot of work to find the right balance. This kind of move is two-way risk. If it fails, it has negative repercussions for his business relationships with labels, for his reputation within serious jazz, for his image outside of jazz. It's a calculated risk, not a cash-in on a sure thing.

And if anybody is naive enough to think that somebody like Scofield is doing what he's doing entirely for some abstract, altrusitic reason(s), I've got an autographed copy of the Bolden cylinder that you can have for a very reasonable price. ← Fast reverse back to March 2000 when "Bump" was released and Sco hit the jam band circuit ... At that time, Sco was already well-established as a major league jazz artist in the upper echelon: big audiences, Fri Sat sellout, almost anywhere. Even without the financial responsibility of leading a band, he could have done studio work for high-selling artists, played all-star jazz groups and festivals forever. Already done the fusion thing for years, huge crowds in huge venues. Many recordings under his name with nice royalties. So, it's very clear to me that Sco had the luxury of making a decision NOT based on money. Certainly only a few have that luxury, but it's still a decision to make. I believe Sco wanted to be more relevant to youth. And it was a decision not without risks: Sco almost always puts into his improvs a friendly, down-to-earth vibe, ingrained with a deep understanding of the human condition ... a sort of "How do I get from this day to the next without compromising who I am and continue to be a positive person?". That vibe isn't necessarily what's going on in the jam-band scene. More importantly, at the time of "Bump" Sco decided to go completely sober. He even put it on the CD liner notes: he said it was a personal decision that everyone must make on their own, but he had decided against all drugs and alcohol. He said in interviews that smoking weed was an obsession that he believes would have eventually killed him. Somewhat of a radical statement to make if you're going to play for jam-band audiences. That scene is full of party drugs and hallucinogenics. A lot of the music is derived from and is meant to mesh with altered states. With the above in mind, I don't see how what Sco did can be viewed as financial opportunism.