ep1str0phy

Man, I was sleeping on the Fela, MG. I'll go check it out. This entire thread has made me want to go back it rifle through my R&B/soul sides (which are in a different part of the state, I'm sad to report). As far as Sonny is concerned--the cat always knew how to move into a free/funkish bag, even without Herbie. The results, however--in proportion to his tremendous talent--were pretty inconsistent. Paradise is pretty flaccid--some nice Sonny spots, but the dichotomy between the two parts--the groove-laden backing band and the free excursions--is a little too jarring for my tastes (it often sounds as if Sonny was dialed in from nowhere). Then there's Last Exit, which could get pretty funky at times... hell, No Material (with Ginger Baker) grooves like a mother--Brotzmann and Sonny doing their amplified sheet metal thing over some heavy beats. With the best sides, though, I always get the impression that Sonny is coming squarely out of the Coltrane/Sanders/Ayler tradition--it's a pity when those influences are obscured. And JSngry--has the Melvin Jackson been reissued on CD?

Frank Quitely Jim Lee Frank Miller Miller Barber Ali Baba The 40 Thieves Remington Steele Lowe, Rob Tom Petty Roy Orbison Bob Dylan George Harrison

Funky Donkey was the first thing I thought of to post about, and I see you beat me to it. Worth another mention, though. Absolutely funky groove + avant-garde. PLUS, having been recorded (and live, no less ), in or about 1973 -- this is proto avant-funk, if ever there was!! (At least in terms of having a James Brown-type groove goin' on.) Dorky cover, but the music is sublime. Isn't there another UMS album with tracks culled from the same sessions? Banana or something? Seems as if Thomas has a penchant for weird album cover art. I haven't heard it, but I'm very interested. Thinking about Funky Donkey got me thinking about Lester Bowie, who really, really knew how to cut this stuff. Brass Fantasy could groove with the best of them. Come to think of it, the Art Ensemble really innovated in this area--'Theme de Yoyo' was proto-proto free funk, if there ever was any. It's still one of the most thrilling (and compact) entries in the 'genre.'

Practically all modern rock/blues guitar soloists owe AK de facto royalties... tho no one will ever sound that bad. Albert got his sound through exigency; we (guitarists) copped it 'cause we wanted it. I have boundless respect for that man.

Frank Quitely Jim Lee Frank Miller

First off: free funk is a semantic nightmare. Are we talking funky 'free' music, 'free' funky music, or some odd middle term? Moreover, is so-called 'free funk' a subcategory of the avant-garde, or merely free-wheeling fusion? Worst of all: what counts? When it comes right down to it, we're dealing with functional terminology. Part of me thinks that the label is pure invective--'cause if good 'free' can be funky, aren't we getting a little redundant? And deeper into the issue: the music is mired in the same etymological/categorical nightmare that plagues all music, jazz (as a classic example) included... we're left with a gross oversimplification of a series of diverse sounds, approaches, and philosophies. Even if Ornette's Prime Time is the paradigmatic free funk band, we're dealing with multiple continuua: Prime Time is as much a piece with Ornette's less 'backbeatish' material as with any other 'free funk' music. And it goes on, and on, and on (infinite regress). That being said: by free-funk, mean whatever you like. Me? I'm taking this to mean any backbeat-heavy, groove-inflected music ostensibly descended from early 'free jazz.' Most of this music is 4/4 with a minimal-to-nonexistent harmonic framework. Prime Time is, again, the prime example: harmony is at the service of melody and, in this case, (occasionally overlapping) four-square rhythm(s)--not the other way around. Vocalistic effects, strained timbres, and severe metrical liberties are juxtaposed with cleanly identifiable meter and, often times, an extremely simple chordal backdrop (a context and not a guide to action). But these are base qualifications and, in the end, I don't think the tenets are that strict (at all). Electric Miles sort of counts, no? Favorites? Of the top of my head: -Luther Thomas's Human Arts Ensemble: Funky Donkey-Reissued by the UMS and bad, bad, bad. This one's got Charles Bobo Shaw and the Bowies--and it cooks beyond belief. James Brown but stone gone. -Joe McPhee: Nation Time-also on the UMS. Fairly conventional in a harmonic sense, but the leader is clearly versed in the avant vernacular. There's definitely a sense of openness to this--really sort of a funk/rock band stretching out. Coltrane and Booker T. in equal doses. -Don Cherry: Brown Rice-Actually sort of 'world groove' in the quintessential Cherry sense (and pretty controversial, from what I gather). Some tracks just move like crazy--in a rare groovish way--with a sense of liberty that only well-versed 70's avant cats could provide. Frank Lowe is all over this puppy. -Others: work by Prime Time, Sun Ra, Larry Young, etc. Fill in the blanks?

Lana Lang Sonny Stitt Mary Magdalene

The 'official' and quartet recordings aren't even in the same league, IMHO. But--there's a certain zeal about the larger group that just doesn't come across on the original version. There's a sense of vigor and struggle about Davis and Shepp's lines that counterpoises Trane wonderfully--a youthful sense of spiritual wonderment that Coltrane, for all his severity and gravitas, couldn't express. Ultimately (and for the same reasons), I don't think that Shepp and Davis belong on ALS--but it's nice to hear their alternate perspective... reckless, restless, somewhat immature, but honest.

This basically summarizes my view. It's difficult to affect one's aesthetic sensibility, but a little friendly intellectual pressure can go a long way. It's shocking what an open mind can do--especially in the company of the learned. In a way, it's a constant process of restoration--of renewed faith, so to speak, knowing that there's always something else to listen to, that can bring (and has brought) enlightenment, joy. Certain board members have been kind enough to send some joints my way--and hell, it's made all the difference. Viva community.

IG-88 Bossk Boba Fett

I'm deeply, deeply interested in both the Waldron and the Globe Unity Orchestra. Both are fairly atypical sessions (for the performers), correct? I have heard neither.

It's actually pretty shocking how many undergraduates will sweat at questions like this. But really--can't we like eggs? Is that so wrong?

Late Coltrane is one of those things that transcends the 'kick'--I can listen to him up, down, stone focused or shot... the sense of elevation, of 'height,' is the same. I can always enjoy the earlier material, but there's something about those '64-'67 sides ('60+, really) that really burrows down to the human core--something supra-emotional. It's the quintessence of soul, and somehow it surpasses mood, abstracts the humanity. It's not quite 'the form', but it's definitely orbiting the spheres. Think I'll spin Sun Ship later. First time I heard it, the sound drove me nuts (not a Van Gelder project, right?)--the band setup is so poorly balanced. But that power is so intense, so bright, brutal, and free, that it really doesn't matter. What's the point of quibbling at this level?

Caan, James Fuschia Swing Song Seay, Bobby Bobby Hutcherson Khan Jamal Walt Dickerson

Herbie, Chick, McCoy -- What do these three guys have in common?? They all spent some significant time in band for horn players who were REALLY big. So, then, is that an almost necessary requirement for becoming "big" enough to play your own solo and trio gigs, withOUT any horns?? - and drive some real volunte of people into your shows, despite the absence of horns??? I know, I've only cited three examples - probably not enough to make such a sweeping generalization. Still, it did work for them - so I think there's probably something to it. (Sure, it didn't hurt that Herbie and McCoy, and to a lesser extent, Chick -- were all sidemen on TONS of dates, for LOTS of people all through the 60's. But I'd still maintain that it was their affilliation with Miles and Trane that ultimately makes the difference today, and has done so for the last 20 or 30 years.) I wouldn't say that it's a necessity for 'successful' trio/solo work, but it certainly seems to help. At the same time, Herbie, Chick, McCoy (etc.) were instrumental in forcing the innovations of the 60's to their logical, mutual conclusion--integration into the commercial mainstream. I don't think that they're canonized (necessarily) for being in these 'big name' bands; it's just that these bands were successful, (generally) approachable acts--the stuff that the college cats and academics (our fair-weather crowd) are willing to dabble in. Regardless of the technical capacity/emotional severity of a Mulgrew Miller, he just doesn't have the same sort of iconic appeal--not enough to pull the layman into the theater. But hell, I'd just as well listen to MM or John Hicks as well as Tyner (etc.) on a good day--Cecil Taylor, too, for that matter. The cat's got a niche market thing going, but no one is giving him the high end gigs. Interestingly, even for some of the most idiosyncratic improvisers (who've more or less monopolized the market on their respective styles), it is still difficult to rake in the big cash. Cecil, Mulgrew, and Hicks may have the credibility and capacity to take in the money, but there is certainly something to the 'sideman phenomenon.'

Jim--my old PMs, attachments, everything--it's all back. Everything but the post count is back in order (and that doesn't really matter, does it?). Thanks so much. I'm a 'he' by the way (at least I hope so). Epistrophy looks like he/she re-signed up yesterday, member 1451. Are his old posts going to be added to his new account, or are you trying to tie his old posts back to his old account? This is confusing to me. edit - never mind. I think I understand... He actually signed up and was assigned member number 1333. I manually set his member number, in three different tables in the database, to 1451, which was his old member number. The only way I am able to determine what a deleted member's original member number was set to is by cross-referencing one of the member tables that did not get deleted using their old email address. Unfortunately, this particular table does not contain the member name, only the user ID number, email address, and specifics about passwords, PMs, etc. Another question for felser and ep1str0phy... are your old PMs still there?

Jules Verne Jules and Jim Jeanne Moreau James Moody Jack and Jill Joe Venuti

Christ, this is for real?

(Hey! My old posts are linked up.) For the aforementioned reservations--I think a lot of it has to do with the edits--some of which are startlingly prominent (especially on the first cut). This sort of music demands extended treatment, although temporal restrictions kind of prevent things from simmering... and it's all very high energy. As a result, there isn't a lot of breathing space--it's consistently explosive (in contrast to, say 'Point of Departure'--which has those quiet moments). The 'compressed' quality of the sound doesn't exactly lighten things up, either. But that's the album's charm, in way... it's a lot more ragged, brutal, and 'rough' than your 'average' inside/outside Blue Note album (for example). What it does have, however, is passion to burn.

Rashied Sinan Thurman Barker Muhammad Ali

General question I thought someone would know the answer to: The rubato intro/very fast solo version of 'Round Midnight' is--by now--not entirely uncommon among post-bop groups. This 'type' of arrangement is distinguished by a free-flowing, (often) soloist/keyboard accompaniment introductory section, directly succeeded by a breakneck--not just double-time, but deadly fast (in contrast to the more famous classic Miles quartet recordings)--improv portion. The 'Lost' Miles Quintet registered a version at Juan-Les-Pins in '69, Joe Henderson recorded a version at the Lighthouse in '70, and Charles Tolliver has been throwing it into his live sets for ages (I'm thinking of the Music Inc. version from '73, in particular). Who was/were the first to use this arrangement (with some form of documentation, even if it wasn't set in wax)?

No joke. The undergraduate music deparment presently has only two improvisation-oriented classes (neither is a history class), only one of which is a jazz course. This is due to expand in the coming year (Myra Melford just got approved to teach full time), but I'd be surprised to see a history course in the works. It irritated me to no end back when I was trying to get an interdisciplinary major together. It's been in the course listing for ages, but nothing comes up. The graduate program (ethnomusicology) is also relatively spartan.

I sat in on a UCLA introductory jazz history course with Gerald Wilson a while back (concentration was pre-bebop--mainly a primer for some stuff that had been slipping past me). Wilson was congenial, nurturing, and thorough--without coming across as didactic. As far as I'm concerned, it was his personality that put him across--a spirit that had lived/is living with the music, tempered in mind but high in spirits. Unfortunately, the brevity of the course (it was a summer session) prevented one from taking too much away from it--things just whizzed pass, some skipped over. Regardless, it was a joy watching the professor 'phantom' cue his old orchestrations, spinning interesting (if tangential) yarns about some of his old running partners. I talked to him before class on quite a few occasions--real kind, with a regard for the avant cats. My favorite moment: talking to him about Eric Dolphy. On the never-assembled Ayler/Cherry/Dolphy/Peacock/Murray quintet: "That would've been a tough band." Compare this to Berkeley, where there hasn't been a real jazz history course for years.

I'm a fan of Ming--more so for what it is than what it promises. There's no doubt that this crowd could produce one hell of an avant blowout; what we get, instead, is a well-arranged, temperate set of free jazz-inflected post-bop. As beautiful as Ming is, I have to wonder what a riskier direction would have produced--and with these cats... it's nice to see so many adventurous faces excelling in this context, though. Great compositions and some phenomenal blowing over a set of choice charts... nothing that'll blow my mind, but I'll take it over a good 99% of whatever's eating up the bins these days. On Wynton--could it really be done? And--even then--would it matter when we have so many forward-looking improvisers--hell, trumpet players--so well versed in the entire history of the music? WM would be a virtual nonentity in a scene comprised of Lester Bowie, Olu Dara, Raphe Malik, etc. This is a music of ideas as well as chops; last time I checked, Wynton was severely lacking in the former. It's truly fantastical to imagine that WM could stake an interesting, unique claim in the David Murray world where he hasn't even succeeded in so much in his fairly parochial, backasswards, real-world musical sphere. We shouldn't give Wynton too much credit either way; the conservative revolution would've happened without him--not in the same form, perhaps, but damn if it wasn't the 80's and damn if the powers-that-be wouldn't have thrown everything into reverse sooner or later. Like a lot of icons, he's 99% hype, 1% chops--and the cat has killer chops. Thanks for getting me to pull out Ming again, by the way.

Man, I wish I had the discipline to do that... Frankly, I don't think I've (in any salient way) absorbed a good 90 or so percent of my music collection. Sometimes the connection is immediate and powerful, sometimes it just doesn't come. If something doesn't work, I just move on (usually buying stuff along the way)... 'Bitches Brew' collected dust for years before I finally worked up the nerve to tackle it. Conversely: Andrew Hill's 'Point of Departure' had me at second number three. At the same time, some great albums just take a really, really long time to settle in--and that's part of the thrill, really... 'getting to know' some of this stuff (the Cellar Door material included) can be a lifelong endeavor.