The Magnificent Goldberg

Tiny Grimes Peter Grimes The Dirty Dozen Brass Band

Good. I don't think I've ever heard any of this material. MG

Well, I HAVE been having a fun afternoon and evening so far with Dan Gould's bunch of LPs. So far, it's been Willis 'Gator Tail' Jackson - Funky Reggae - Trip Bobby Bryant - Big Band Blues - Vee-Jay Perri Lee - A night at Count Basie's - Roulette Sonny Stitt - Blues for Duke - Muse Charles Earland - Boss organ - Choice Hank Marr - Live at the Club 502 - King Dave Bailey - Gettin' Into Somethin' - Epic Then, after a break for dinner, now listening to Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson - Hold it Right There! - Muse And, although I greatly enjoyed all the albums I was listening to earlier, this one is RRRREEEAAAALLLLLY turning me OUT! Cor! going on to another from the same gig in a few minutes Buddy Tate - Hard blowin': Live at Sandy's -Muse (Then I think I'll NEED two vols of Midnight slows before bed MG

I thought this was big band stuff. MG

Ah, I think this is also something I've been looking to find out about. Informed discussion will be greatly beneficial. (Ill-informed discussion will, I trust, be very funny.) MG

Oh yes, I know. I should have bought it but I've already had for years all the Aladdin sides and most of the Apollo sides on LP and most or many of the RCA sides on CD. At the time, I just couldn't justify to myself lashing out on a box for the sake of a bit extra, y'know? Same as the Amos Milburn. Should have bought that, but already had about half the material on 78, LP and CD. MG

I received my box of LPs from Dan Gould today. YAY!!!!!!!! Blue Mitchell - Blue Mitchell - Mainstream Bobby Bryant - Big Band Blues - Vee-Jay Perri Lee - A night at Count Basie's - Roulette Sonny Stitt - Blues for Duke - Muse Charles Earland - Boss organ - Choice Hank Marr - Live at the Club 502 - King Dave Bailey - Gettin' Into Somethin' - Epic Buddy Tate - Hard Blowin Live at Sandy's - Muse Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis & Bill Doggett - Midnight Slows Vol 10 - Black & Blue Illinois Jacquet - Midnight Slows Volume 8 - Black & Blue Willis 'Gator Tail' Jackson - Funky Reggae - Trip Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson - Hold it Right There! - Muse Phew! Wow! MG

Surely language doesn't exist UNTIL it's codified. MG Not sure I agree with that... Surely (and don't call me "Shirley") the truth lies somewhere in between -- that is, if we're talking about literal (spoken, then in most cases written-down) verbal languages. The most "expressive" (in itself) sound or series of would-be communicative sounds doesn't really work until others get and agree that that sound or series of sounds means whatever it means or is supposed to mean. In particular, such codification means that, say, what "take my chair" indicates doesn't depend that heavily on my "performance" of "take my chair." Now, if you're talking analogously, and want to bring into the tent other non-verbal languages, like music, their "languageness" is a good deal looser and different than that of verbal languages. We are, at least in my experience, prepared to deal with pleasure and interest with large swatches of music whose principles of order we don't readily detect. Nor is the language of any music that I'm aware of -- even the simplest, most direct, and most familiar -- as enclosed by the "this means that" process as is the case with verbal languages. Musical sounds can always be taken as "just sounds," while the sounds that make up words can always be understood as words, which accumulate into discourse, unless one consciously or inadvertently disguises those sounds, or one is not engaging in discourse (i.e. words are being used but one has no intent to shape them into sentences), or the auditor doesn't know the language. I'm reminded BTW of the brutal running battle in language affairs between prescriptivists (that would be, among others, people who write usage guides and who say that there are right and wrong ways to use the language), and descriptivists (that would be most professional linguists, who say that there are no right and wrong usages, only usages -- e.g. "Descriptive grammar has nothing to do with telling people what they should say." "Languages are self-regulating systems that can be left to take care of themselves"). A wise man on the prescriptive side notes that no descriptivist linguist writes or publicly speaks other than in some version of standard English (or whatever language the linguist is using). You're too damn good at this, Larry MG

Ah, that one's not on Amazon UK. And I didn't include it in the Concord order. Oh well, we'll see. MG

I don't think it's something that's come along because of cover art or even a post-hoc collectors' thing. Back in the early sixties, we all knew Blue Notes were the BIZ. They were the BIZ because they were reliable; you knew you'd be getting something great, whatever you bought. Much though I admire (and indeed prefer) Prestige, you can't say that about that company. The reliability of Blue Note definitely was the result of a certain uniformity of approach. That included paid rehearsals (which Prestige didn't do), supervision by a very competent musician (Quebec or Pearson) and an agreed approach from Rudy Van Gelder. I don't think you can have it both ways, though. The idea that you can have reliably great product by assembling a bunch of guys outside the office, piling them into cars and driving them into New Jersey, and saying, "well, now we're at the studio, play", as you can see on the sleeve notes of Jug's "The happy blues", is really not accurate. MG

MG

He was, but he's seen that we're derailing the thread, so he's pissed off somewhere else MG

"Soul outing" I used to have, and is a bit earlier; never heard the other one. His Trane-type stuff started on some of the things Duke Pearson was doing at BN (I was listening to Byrd's "Kofi" yesterday, which made me think about him) and also his own "Manhattan fever". MG

:LOL Steve Austin Trillion Two Ton Tessie

Not sure about those guys, but Frank Foster was certainly incorporating Trane-isms into his 1967 work. Harold Land a bit later, I think - 1968/69? I'm less familiar with his work. And they were Trane-isms; it seems to me those musicians weren't trying to emulate the spirituality of Coltrane, but incorporate some of the new language into their music. They were, after all, THEMSELVES and didn't need to become what they weren't. MG

And that's even more true of Coleman Hawkins. But he, and others, were "updating" their visions, rather than incorporating the older visions into the new music. MG PS - something similar happened in the sixties, when a lot of bop-related tenor players got Coltrane retreads.

I got cheesed off waiting for the pdf to load and went direct to Concord. Now ordered Ray Baretto - Hot hands Ida Cox & Coleperson Hawkins - Blues for Rampart Street (Chris Albertson's treasures have piqued my interest in her and, with Hawk, how can I lose? (as Benny Carter wrote)) Sweets Edison Live at the Iridium Tito Puente - Hot timbales Tito Puente - Puente caliente I decided to get the Cox, although it was cheaper than the others and so I didn't save as much as if I'd ordered another $13.98 CD, because it's two and a half times more expensive on Amazon UK (shrug). MG

What about all the related industries, though? Should we also be helping out the workers of the parts companies that depend on the Big 3, and will likely go kaput with them? The Big 3 are clearly dinosaurs that have a hot date with the K-T boundary, but is it possible for us to support the 1.5 million (conservative estimate) potential extra people who'd be thrown out of work? Quite right. The suply chain is a LOT more flexible and viable than the manufacturers themselves. But it needs time to change. And the easiest and cheapest way to secure that time is to support the big 3 for a limited period and with strict terms on what can and must be done. MG

Nice post Flurin. I can see where you're coming from. It's as if, during the twenties and thirties, no one was saying "THIS" is what it's supposed to be. In a sense, all jazz - even (much of) Paul Whiteman's music - was experimental in those days. But none of that experimentation aesthetic excluded the results of earlier experiments - because no one was saying "THIS" is what it is. But Bebop, and later on Hard Bop, WERE supposed to be a particular kind of thing, because of the (shared) visions that informed their creation and development. You couldn't DO Bebop with a sax, trumpet and a rhythm section of (say) Avery Parrish, Freddie Green, John Kirby and Jimmy Crawford. Nor could you do it with Otis Spann, Hubert Sumlin, Willie Dixon and Fred Below (though (people we think of as) blues musicians had played in all kinds of earlier jazz bands). MG

Thanks Jim. I'm not going to get any Palmieri in this sale. I compared prices with Amazon UK and "Ritmo Caliente" is on sale here for an absolute steal! So I'll be ordering that later today. While I do, I'll see if any of those others are gettable. MG

Nice report, Aloc. I like Wess a lot. MG

Surely language doesn't exist UNTIL it's codified. MG

I have no Alexander albums, but very much like what I've heard of him on the radio. Which is regarded as the best album? http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...=eric+alexander MG

Last nigh Rev W Leo Daniels - It's coming up again (sermon) - Peacock (ABC repress) The Williams Brothers - Blessed - Malaco Amadu Bansang Jobarteh - Master of the kora - Eavadisc (Amadu is Malamini's father. Eavadisc was Cambridge University's record label in 1978!) MG

Concord have 3 Palmieri CDs and I'm thinking of getting one in the sale, as I really love Harlem River Drive. But which to get? Listen here Ritmo caliente La perfecta II I don't want to start by buying a compilation so, if any of these are compilations, please let me know and I can eliminate them. MG