Milestones

I thought there might already be a thread on this, but if so I have not found it. My main source of downloads for several years now has been e-music. I've gotten some greats deals, such as five records by the Great Jazz Trio and some of the music by Clark Terry/Bob Brookmeyer. And a a lot more, often at prices that could be considered real steals. It's been cool to see them add many more choices, such as Blue Note albums--even current releases. But their pricing sure bumped up just recently. They no longer serve as first choice in terms of cost. Any thoughts?

Getting into Ornette's music was pretty effortless for me. So what does the box version of On the Corner add?

I found #2 and #3 to be excellent.

I'm still not sold on On the Corner, and I'm a huge Miles Davis fan. But I have not heard it in ages, and for me it never made it to CD or digital files. Eric Dolphy is an interesting case in point, and I'm especially with those who had trouble with Out to Lunch. I always loved his flute work (unparalleled), but otherwise he was tough to get into--though I had my share of hearing him with Mingus, Trane, Oliver Nelson, etc. I've since become a true fan of Dophy in general--and Out to Lunch must be considered a classic (aided by the phenomenal young talent on it). Where would Dolphy have gone in his playing/composing? Consider that he had a peak period that lasted only about four years.

Is it true that Ferrante has never released a solo record? What's up with that? This man should be releasing his own solo projects.

I have to agree I have been missing out by paying almost no attention to The Yellowjackets.

Let me add that I also like Stern's contribution to the album Life Cycle by The Yellowjackets. I haven't heard much by the group, but this must be one of their best records--largely because of Stern.

I'm finding myself with quite an interest in Mike Stern. I did once seem him live in person when he was playing with Miles--yes, many years ago. He was good, but I would not have guessed he would go on to become a major talent, which I now believe is the case. I had heard the standards records and one called Play (which featured some guesting by Frisell and Scofield). Again, good records, but was Stern really in the same category as Frisell, Scofield, and Metheny? I know he's been putting out some eclectic records and surrounding himself with tons of great players. I have been listening to the well-named All Over the Place, and I find that it's just great. You better do some things really well if you're hiring Garret, Holland, Foster, Potter, Wooten, Richard Bona, etc. I can't even begin to talk about how wonderful this record is. The 2nd track is "Cameroon," and it's dominated Bona; and this is the catchiest and most exuberant track I've heard in age. Maybe Bona steals the track, but you're deaf it you don't groove to Stern's guitar work on the track. Throughout the CD (which is very lengthy) Stern expertly changes mood, tempos, and settings. Like another highly electric guitarist John McLaughlin, he has no trouble shifting from rock oriented fusion guitar to the gentlest stuff imaginable on acoustic. Mike Stern seems to be in the midst of something like a 10-year golden run. I notice his records run long (but not over-long), that he writes almost everything on them, and that he hires the best in the business. His music is perhaps best called fusion, but in the very best sense of the word. I began to get into jazz through fusion, and Stern's work--along with McLaughlin's last few records (reminiscent in many way of Mahavisnu)--show that's it's in good hands these days.

I'm also one who is not much into the whole technical end of things, although you would have to be deaf if you couldn't hear that Benson has chops galore. But the big things are distinctive voice and distinctive feeling. So you get that with both George Benson and with Grant Green, who is arguably a less gifted player (technically). I'm not a musician, so that explains why I'm not about to wax on about technique. Now, if you want "voice" on a Forum, go with Steve Reynolds. I'd recognize him in the first sentence even if the name were removed.

Where exactly is this "Mood Indigo" found? I've never heard (nor been aware of) such a lengthy and unusual version of this great tune. Is this Ellington himself, or someone else performing it?

I think the key is to have a balance. God knows w'eve seen plenty of work by artists like Michael Brecker and Herbie Hancock in pop and rock veins, sometimes in fairly anonymous session roles. But they have devoted more than enough time and energy on real jazz. Benson can do whatever he likes; he is certainly entitled to it. But I have to go by my own taste, and I just haven't found much of his stuff that truly appeals to me.

Dan, Yes, I have heard several of these tracks, and certainly they are good. It looks like for nearly everyone here, Benson lies beneath jazz consciousness!

Basie had some long small-group jams during the Pablo years, such as "Bookie's Blues" (but maybe that was live). I do like a lot of what Miles did in the early fusion years. Bitches Brews was my first jazz record, and In a Silent Way and Jack Johnson were not far behind. Very much dominated by long tracks. Second after "Bitches Brew" (the track) is "Spanish Key."

I really like how this thread has taken off. I haven't seen much mention of avant garde stuff. I do have some minor interest in avant garde, but pretty minor indeed. On another Forum altogether I found there was a bit too much raving over avant garde artists. The long, long stuff by these artists is something I rarely find compelling. But that's me.

I'm sure that many would agree that Benson is a fine jazz talent who has never played enough jazz--or at least not in a long time. Nothing wrong with his singing; I sometimes find it appealing. It's more the over-produced records and the inevitable pop orientation. Even when he has seemingly tried to return more to jazz, the results are uneven. Case in point is the new Guitar Man. The title alone suggested it might satisfy those who want to hear Benson play jazz. The guy has chops galore and sounds so smooth....in a good way, when he gets into a stripped down situation. But this record is a pretty advanced production, with plenty of vocals; and do we really need more versions of "Don't Know Why" and "Lady in My Life"? Still it may be worth while just for "Tenderly," "Naima," and a swinging "Paper Moon." The only Benson record I've heard that verges on a masterpiece is Beyond the Blue Horizon. Man, does he burn on "So What," and plenty of good stuff follows. I have heard my share of 60s tracks with Ronnie Cuber, which are good but perhaps too basic and limited. I know that another poster had posed a "what if?" here--what if Larry Young played on those sessions. In any case, I will continue to listen to Benson, but so far I'm having trouble finding 60-70 minutes of first-rate stuff I could listen to over and over again.

For Coltrane, I'd go with "Africa": 16+ minutes. Of course, there is a lot of long stuff by Trane, especially if you get into the live recordings. I'll grant that Ascension is monumental, but also very challenging.

A few of you are going under 15 minutes and some are offering live tracks. But that's fine...a little rule breaking is fine. I apologize for what seems a dismissal of blowing sessions, mainly from the 1950s. Some of these are quite good, such as Burrell's "All Day Long." True, these long jams are generally not my thing. But for those who find them excellent, they are just that. This topic is all about favorites. "Walkin" by Miles is pretty much a blowing tune, and it creeps near 15 minutes. I absolutely love that track.

Yeah, Mingus was one of the great ones is this area. Of course, I've broken my own rule, as all the versions I have heard of "Meditations on Integration" are live. I also like "Parkeriana," which showed up at many of the same concerts (also "Orange").

I'm thinking of at least 15 minutes. A jazz tune doesn't even really merit "long" when it's at 10 minutes or so. But I would put on restrictions here. One would be live performances, where tunes are often stretched to twice (or more) their studio length. Another would be jazz suites. For example, A Love Supreme could be considered a suite. Also, I would personally avoid long jams. I know there was a period when Prestige would put out side long jams every now and then. Only a few of these have merit, and very few could be considered genuine classics. I think of tunes that are unusual and complex in structure. Here are some that come to mind: Free Jazz--Ornette (about 36") "Meditations on Integration" (about 24")--Mingus "Bitches Brew" (27")--Miles Concierto de Aranjuez" (about 16")--Miles "African Sunrise" (about 20")--Randy Weston "Search for the new Land" (about 15")--Lee Morgan Two Folk Songs" (about 20")--Pat Metheny

I think one of the best early albums was The Cooker, a quintet with Pepper Adams.

"Tagi" is an interesting piece, but it's not on my copy of Mirror.

I've heard about (more than heard) Lee's work near the end. I'm guessing he was moving toward a sound something like Bitches Brew. I don't know the case with Lee Morgan's late music, but I don't usually go for really long tracks (15-20 minutes) unless they are structured very creatively. "Search for the New Land" is a long piece that certainly works.

I'd say his two most beautiful ballads are "Ceora" and "Twilight Mist."

And "Monk in Wonderland" as well.

I do have the title track of "Evolution," and I like it a lot.