Christiern

Does this thread not belong in the Flatulence forum? Or are we keeping it here because it has not brought down the wrath of Gould? As we say in Denmark: Den som fisen først er var, han er fisens egen far. It does not translate well.

"just trad jazz" Please explain that inherent ignorance.

Berigan: "Perhaps he was the one I saw hiding under a Burka a few years ago in Wal-mart!" First thing that came to my mind, Conrad.

Might as well post Terri's piece on Bob in its entirety: Producer BOB WEINSTOCK, who was a 20-year-old jazz collector and fan when he founded Prestige Records in 1949, died last Saturday (1/14) in Boca Raton, FL. He was 77. Weinstock parlayed his passion for jazz first into a successful retail operation and then, in short order, his own record label, which became one of the major jazz indies of the 1950s and '60s. (It was sold to Fantasy, Inc. in 1972, and acquired by the Concord Music Group in 2004.) Prestige's first recording session was held on January 11, 1949, when Weinstock cut four sides featuring Lee Konitz and Lennie Tristano that were issued on 78s on New Jazz, the original name of the company. He had an early hit with King Pleasure and "Moody's Mood for Love" and solid sellers with records by Gene Ammons and Sonny Stitt, but arguably the label's most important affiliation was with Miles Davis, who came on board in 1951. In a 1989 interview with James Rozzi, Weinstock recalled how he came to sign the trumpeter: "Miles had vanished after he did those Capitol sides with the nonet [1949]; nobody knew where he was. Somebody had said that he may be at home in East St. Louis, so while I was in Chicago on business, I tracked him down. His father was a dentist, so I knew that his number would be in the phone book. I called information, got the number, called, and Miles answered. . . . I said that I was interested in doing a series of recordings, and that I wanted to sign him to a contract. He said alright, just get him to New York and we'd talk about it then." Weinstock also revealed three that got away: Harry Belafonte, who offered him some calypso sides that the producer turned down, only to see Belafonte become "the hottest vocalist in America"; Jimmy Smith, who went on to success at Blue Note after Weinstock told him "Man, I can't put that out. That's not what I'm doing" ("After that I signed the next best six or eight jazz organists I could find"); and--what he calls his biggest blunder--Bob Dylan, whom Weinstock met around the time he was starting up the Prestige/Folklore label. "I asked [this one dealer at the Folklore Center on Bleecker Street] if Dylan had ever recorded (which he hadn't), and was told not to bother recording him, just listen to Woody Guthrie instead." Here are a few of the artists Bob Weinstock did record: the Modern Jazz Quartet, John Coltrane, Mose Allison, Sonny Rollins, Eric Dolphy, Booker Little, Jaki Byard, Thelonious Monk, Red Garland, Dexter Gordon, Etta Jones, Ron Carter, Pat Martino, Phil Woods, Roosevelt Sykes, King Curtis, George Benson, Charles McPherson, Andy Bey, Curtis Fuller, Art Farmer, Tom Rush, Stan Getz, Benny Golson, Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis, Jimmy Witherspoon, Harold Mabern, Shirley Scott, Rev. Gary Davis, Eddie Jefferson, the Holy Modal Rounders, Jack McDuff, Lightnin' Hopkins, Tadd Dameron, Booker Ervin, Illinois Jacquet, Yusef Lateef, Oliver Nelson, Houston Person, Jerome Richardson, Lonnie Johnson, Jackie McLean. . . .

Good, then perhaps we can avoid homophobic hysteria!

I think you are stating the obvious, BM, when you point out that it is education, not intelligence that has brought on this sorry state. If you see this thread as "bullshit," I think it is because you misunderstand it.

It goes hand in hand with the unimaginative music. That brings us to the concurrent deterioration (read, corporate takeover) of the music industry.

Catesta: "I hope you know I was just kidding." Of course! I was hoping you knew that I knew.

Catesta: "By the way, Castro is wrong? " Sorry, but, yes. To see how uninformed many Americans are today, one has only to watch Jay Leno's occasional street interviews--more sad than funny--truly pathetic. Makes me wonder if much has changed in public schools since 1941. If grandparents and parents didn't learn much, I guess we can expect the ignorance to be passed on to subsequent generations.

I just recalled a pertinent scrap from my memory. Between 1941 and 44, I attended P.S. 101 in Forest Hills, NY. Since I knew only three words in English, I was placed in a class that was way below the one a 10- year-old should have found himself in. Well, it didn't take me long to learn the language, so I regularly skipped ahead and finally landed where my age bracket belonged. The problem was that we hardly learned anything meaningful. Much of our time was spent weaving patches that were to be assembled into a wool blanked, making paper maché heads for puppets, and rehearsing for a patriotic or safety play (BTW, I was a pencil before I became a marine). In 1944, when I returned to Iceland and was placed in an age-appropriate class, I was so far behind that it became embarrassing. A year later, the war in Europe ended and my mother sent me on the first boat to newly liberated Denmark. Well, I had completely forgotten how to speak Danish, so there was a period when I again found myself the oldest in the class. My grandfather wisely sent me to private tutors in Danish and math. My Danish came back to me rather quickly, but I never got the hang of math. Failing several entrance exams in Denmark, was sent to school in Canterbury, UK. That improved my English and gave me a stronger incentive to fake it (knowledge, that is) until I no longer had to. Still, when I returned to Copenhagen, I was so far behind, academically, that they enrolled me in a school for commercial art--that was something I had shown a knack for. All this to say that I was 14 or 15 when my formal education ended and I think that is largely due to the woefully inadequate schooling I received in the U.S. BTW, the principal (Mrs. Gertrude Lutz) and all the teachers at P.S. 101 were women. I was told that this was so because the men were at war. I was also told that one could not expect female teachers to be as good as their male counterparts. So, in some ways, we live in more enlightened times.

Another thing is the fact that--in some areas--American kids know a lot more today than they did when I was a European boy. Kids know more about politics, the so-called "facts of life," etc., but they still think Danes come from Holland, Africa is a country, and algebra is something old-fashioned women wear. There is something to be said for youthful innocence, even naïvité, but I recall a poll taken about 30 years ago where one of the questions was: "Who was the first to conquer space?" Far too many kids answered" "Castro"* *As in Castro Convertibles (fold-out sofas)

Noj: "At one point I could name all the presidents, vice presidents, and the years they were in office. WTF good does that memorization exercise do for me in the world outside of school?" Reminds me of a time when I was staying with my grandparents on a small island in the Baltic Sea, and attending the school there. One day, I came home with an assignment: to memorize the words to a Protestant hymn (the island's teacher was a Lutheran minister). My grandfather erupted and told me not to waste a moment on such nonsense. The following morning, he accompanied me to school and told the teacher that his grandson was not going to waste his time learning something as meaningless as a hymn, adding that I should be memorizing something that will be of use to me later in life. The poor pastor apologized, and I was never again asked to commit a hymn to memory. The funny thing is that I still remember the opening words: Den velsignede dag med fryd vi ser.. Translation: With joy we see the blessed day...

I think Betty Carter became a grotesque joke when she forced her "style" away from Sarah Vaughan's.

Nice of you to share the credit, Lon, but we know better.

Unless he condemns Rod Stewart for his assaults on standards, I think my old colleague must be losing it.

I wonder why I like your new avatar, Jim....

Shouldn't that be "Dizzy on the Liberty Riviera"?

Sorry to hear about your father's Mac problems. I have used Macs exclusively since 1984 and that probably includes whatever model your father has, but I have never experienced the grey screen. The way to get out of a screen saver is to hit any key or move the mouse; if the sleep mode is on, the space bar will bring the machine back to life. How is your father able to activate the printer when his Mac is essentially dormant? Do you know which OS is installed? It would be helpful if you could tell us details like that. Go to System Profile (perhaps via "About this Mac," under the Apple icon--depending on the OS). That will give you all the details. You might post the details and a description of the problem in the "Genius Bar" forum at Applenova, a dedicated Mac BBS. Applenova

Yes. I think that single car planted in the hallway at the recent auto show is an ominous seed.

I remember--and it was not so long ago--a time when my PC-challenged friends gleefully told me that Apple's days were over and that the Mac would be history. I hope they like the taste of crow.--CA January 20, 2006 Deal Could Offer New Disney Role for Apple Chief By LAURA M. HOLSON and JOHN MARKOFF LOS ANGELES, Jan. 19 Steven P. Jobs could be considered the Walt Disney of his era, breathing new life into animated movies with hits like "The Incredibles" and "Toy Story," and reinventing Apple Computer as a media darling with its popular iPod. Now Mr. Jobs is in negotiations to join forces with the Walt Disney Company itself. A deal would involve the sale of Mr. Jobs's Pixar Animation Studios for more than $6.8 billion to Disney, according to three people apprised of the negotiations. The sale, whose terms are still being negotiated, would make Mr. Jobs a major shareholder and director at Disney, which has been trying to find its footing in the changing world of animation. And the merger could give Mr. Jobs a pivotal role, if he wants one, in helping shape the convergence of new media and old at Disney. "He's one of the handful of people who has shown the ability to guide both technology and entertainment companies and that might be quite useful to Disney," said Bran Ferren, a former Disney Studios Designer and technologist, who is now co-chairman of Applied Minds, a technology consulting firm based in Glendale, Calif. "What he has that is rare is taste, and that's a very valuable commodity if you can focus it and harness it." But the move is also potentially risky for Mr. Jobs, because it ties his fortunes to an old media company that, like other entertainment giants, is trying to navigate a difficult course these days. For Disney, the acquisition would help by lifting the company's lagging computer animation ambitions. But it would also bring on board a visionary who has already done what Robert A. Iger, Disney's chief executive, has been trying to do in his first year running the company - be a major player in the entertainment world while using technological advances to distribute movies, music and TV shows through multiple sources. "Investors may hope that Mr. Jobs's successful track record at Pixar and Apple will rub off more broadly on Disney," said Richard Greenfield, a media analyst at Pali Research in New York. Disney's board is expected to meet this weekend to discuss whether it wants to proceed with a merger, according to the people apprised of the talks. Two of those people said Disney and Pixar executives had not agreed on a price, and the deal could still be scrapped. The merger discussions were first reported on Thursday by The Wall Street Journal. But if the two sides are able to agree on a price, something that those involved say is likely, Mr. Iger will recommend to the board that Disney buy Pixar. An announcement could come early next week. Many of the terms have been worked out. The new animation division would be overseen by John Lasseter, Pixar's chief creative officer and a former Disney animator, who would work with animators at Pixar's headquarters in Emeryville, Calif., and at Disney in Burbank. It is not yet clear if there would be layoffs, although they would be likely. While Pixar under Mr. Lasseter has thrived, Disney's animation division has floundered, burdened by its past and its inability to adapt to an environment where pens and paper are being replaced by computers. Analysts say a Disney-Pixar combination would be successful only if Pixar took the reins of animation at Disney, because the cultures are vastly different. "John Lasseter's role in any new incarnation of Pixar will be crucial," wrote Katherine Styponias of Prudential Equity. Mr. Lasseter's involvement at Disney may end up contributing more to the merger's success than Mr. Jobs's, since it is likely that Mr. Jobs sees more of a future in Silicon Valley than in Hollywood. Mr. Jobs, said friends and associates, deeply believes the counterculture worldview that he articulated in Apple's "Think Different" advertising campaign. A child of the 60's counterculture, even though he arrived at the tail end of the movement, Mr. Jobs has told reporters that he has never felt close to the Hollywood moguls he does deals with. In his commencement speech at Stanford last year, after a bout with pancreatic cancer, Mr. Jobs told the graduating class: "Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice." If he decides to sell Pixar - and Disney agrees to buy it - it is likely Mr. Jobs would be doing so because his inner voice remains closest to Silicon Valley. And there would be a lot of money in it for him. His 50.6 percent stake in Pixar would give him roughly $3.4 billion worth of Disney stock if the deal is priced at $6.8 billion, making him the biggest individual Disney shareholder. Those who are close to Mr. Jobs have said that despite his success in Hollywood and with animation, his heart has remained with Apple Computer, the quirky company that has established a loyal user base over almost three decades. Moreover, executives in the consumer electronics industry widely believe that Mr. Jobs is now positioning the company to repeat the iPod phenomenon in two markets: Internet TV and wireless smart phones. These projects, which would extend Mr. Jobs's computer base into new industries that he could potentially transform as thoroughly as he has the music industry, may not both be introduced this year. Mr. Iger began mulling a potential acquisition of Pixar last November when he concluded that distributing Pixar's movies was not of much value to Disney, according to a person who has discussed the matter with Mr. Iger. At the time, Mr. Iger and Mr. Jobs were talking about whether Disney would extend its agreement to distribute Pixar films past 2006. (The two are in a joint venture, which ends with the release of Pixar's coming "Cars.") Mr. Iger, according to one Disney investor, was in a difficult spot. Since being named chief executive last year, he had told Wall Street that his No. 1 priority was reinvigorating Disney's animation business. But in saying so, said one Disney investor, "Disney had boxed themselves into a corner." Pixar, in recent years, has been a steady supplier of new characters and stories for Disney, which were adapted for use in Disney's theme parks and consumer products. Mr. Iger did not make Mr. Jobs an offer then. Price was an issue: Mr. Jobs wanted far more than $60 a share. Disney, for its part, wanted to see how its first foray into computer animation, "Chicken Little," would fare when it was released in November. (It performed well, but not as well as Pixar movies.) "We suspect Disney was increasingly concerned with its upcoming internally generated animated films," said Mr. Greenfield of Pali Research. Indeed, last year Disney postponed one of the four computer-animated films it was betting on, "Rapunzel Unbraided." In December, Mr. Iger and Disney's investment bankers started to think about buying a stake in Pixar instead. But by January, the person who talked with Mr. Iger said, the Disney chief was anxious to acquire all of Pixar. Wall Street reacted positively to news of a potential merger. On Thursday shares of Pixar increased 2.8 percent, to close at $58.87. Disney shares rose 4 percent, to $26.24. "Perhaps Steve is selling at the top of the market," Mr. Greenfield said. "He is finally ready to take a victory lap at what has become a successful company." Laura M. Holson reported from Los Angeles for this article and John Markoff from San Francisco. Andrew Ross Sorkin contributed reporting from New York.

Times sure have changed. In 1960, when I went to Copenhagen for my grandparents' 60th wedding anniversary, Cannonball gave me a list of camera equipment to buy--it had to be German, because the Japanese stuff was crap!

MG: "But I suspect that what you saw may have been a local phenomenon, because as I've read more biographical material on these guys (almost none on Bob Weinstock, however), I found out that at least as many of them were not fans as were." There is a reason (and you nailed it) why I did not mention Lubinsky, the Chess brothers, et al. Sure, there were absolute bastards in this business, too, people who saw an opportunity to make money. Altruism is a wonderful spark, but there often comes a time when reality has to chip away at it. I don't believe that artists were ever "treated as shit" at Blue Note, Riverside, Prestige, or Atlantic--at least not from what I observed first hand. Sure, they rarely received more than the minimum union fee and royalties were something most artists never saw, but neither were the independent jazz labels raking in the money. It was r&b, not jazz that gave Atlantic its financial boost, and we all know that Creedence Clearwater Revival turned on Fantasy's fortune and enabled them to eventually acquire Riverside and Prestige. Now, of course, Archie Bunker has all that! BTW, you mentioned Arthur Rupe--here's a piece from yesterday's LA Times that brings you up to date on him. I placed it in the political forum to avoid a nasty scream from Florida Rupe in the news

It is interesting to note that the people who founded the record labels we so rightly revere started as fans and record collectors. Bill Grauer and Orrin Keepnews (Riverside), Bob Weinstock (Prestige), the Ertegun brothers (Atlantic), Wolf and Lion (Blue Note), etc. ...and they all knew each other, bought and sold 78 rpm discs among themselves, etc. Those little labels (and they all had a humble start) grew out of love for the music. Now, sadly, the amazing harvest has been swallowed up by corporations that have little or no interest in the music beyond recycling what they acquired and watching the profit margin grow with each re-release. Of course, many of the people who founded the independent labels did quite well when they let go, but I think they earned that bonus. I also think they deserved to see their efforts respected and in some ways perpetuated. As we see, lawyers and accountants won't do either.

"St. Louis Boogie," to be correct.

Keeping it close to nature--never known any of those modern things y'all talk about.