RainyDay

Zero. I'd rather go to Yoshi's (and eat sushi while I'm there).

I pay little attention to lables, etc and don't buy much music any more. I do have Nick at Night which is enjoyable. In the past couple of years, he has gone in a new direction since that record. I have seen him a couple of times, once at the SF Jazz Festival in Fall 2002, and last year at Yoshi's and he was cooking! He is playing more out, and it draws more from his New Orleans roots. It's a kind of raucous, kick butt kind of sound. I REALLY like it. I'm looking forward to seeing him again. When I saw him with Ray Brown back in 2001, I guess it was, he was very good but quite subdued compared to where he is now. I'd get something that he has done in the past 1-2 years. I have heard some of Dear Louis and liked it but he's done something since then that is quite good but I can't recall the title. I believe it reflects his new attitude. My 1.5 cents worth.

Jazzbo: Fascinating personal history. Thanks for sharing it.

I think your on the wrong track in trying to understand my words. I don't hear his demons and are then appaled by that. It doesn't go that deep. I simply don't like his tone. I was building up on RockC's remark that it was actually Trane who suggested Wayne and not Miles's choice alone as DrJ suggested. My idea was that maybe a lot of cool stuff is attributed to Miles and often Miles alone, whereas the actual picture is probably much more diverse. A sort of aggregation of action around the central hero. Like watching the Ken Burns documentary This has admittedly little to do with my initial post but much more with the responses in this thread. I don't think people here are uncritical hero-worshippers, far from it! It just occurred to me that there is a lot of stuff that's being attributed to Miles and I wonder whether it's all true, or rather a little spice to the story. It's an extension of the originator/facilitator discussion in this thread I suppose. I dug Miles when I was young and before I knew anything about him being an outlaw, or having a particular couture, or whatever. I dug him because he sounded good to me and to my less trained young ear at the time, he sounded like he was doing something entirely different. It was also what pulled me to Colrane. All that other stuff about both of them filtered into my consciousness years later. For someone who grew up listening to Pops, Al Hirt, Harry James, maybe a little Dizzy, etc, Miles represented something fresh and new. Plus, I discovered Miles on my own, not through my dad who was the major influence on my musical tastes when I was a little girl.

I hope Chris Farley is digging Miles from his trailer down by the river.

The only other thought I'd want to share is one that has been expressed by others and that is Miles' ability to put together the best talent for a given project. I don't think it is any accident that so many musicians that have been associated with him over the years went on to achieve greatness independent of Miles, because so many of them were extraordinary talents. Listening to Miles is not just listening to him playing the trumpet. It's the trumpet and everything else that's going on. And one other thing. Miles was not afraid to take risks with his work, which means he wasn't afraid to fail. I believe he was one of the most influential and gifted artists of the 20th Century.

I see what you mean. It's probably stupid to try to come up for metaphors for or to schematize artistic inspiration, but I've never let the stupidity of a project stop me before . . . I agree with you on the visceral response thing (at least to an extent), but From the perspective of thinking about music as an expression of this sort of life situation: Imagine that that a musical expression of that visceral reaction is pretty much readily available to you--it's on hand often, close to the surface of your consciousness. You don't need to get in contact with your feelings and translate them into music --to a large degree its there as music. The matter of expressing this then is a matter of contriving the music in such a way as it fits into the particular context in which you find yourself. If what you are creating/playing is an expression of who you are, how is that contrived? Maybe I'm misreading you but to me, music isn't "there." Someone has to pull it out of their head. It seems that when you pull something out of your head, it comes with a lot of your baggage attached to it. Martin Scorcese seems to be consumed about themes of damnation and redemption. It's in his movies and he talks about it a lot. It doesn't have a whiff of contrivance, for me anyway. If you are able to seprate out who you are from your art, that seems contrived to me. Or works for hire.

The thing about Miles was that he was a haunted human being with serious demons dogging him his whole life. What I hear in a lot of his music is his visceral reaction to the demons. That's what I've always heard. What I hear is such an honest expression and one that resonates loudly within me. His sound has never sounded contrived to me.

This, gentlemen, is a great thread. I love Miles but it is instructive to hear people talk about why they don't and why do like his work. I'd like to echo comments made by vibes, JSngry and JohnL. I am not a musician or musically trained (not really) and my biggest frustration is not having the musical vocabulary to express how I feel about music. So some of you did it for me. Thanks.

Good enough, Chris. I'm not particularly interested in rehashing merde from another board. I don't take any pleasure that you are no longer friends with the guy. 'Nuff said.

Jeez, I hope you don't think I was talking about you because I wasn't. I haven't followed DEEP's exploits here. I saw this thread and wondered what had happened THIS time. Turns out it's just the usual Then may I suggest that you actually read a few of the threads before coming up with those sweeping generalizations? Example: "How ironic that DEEP's chief apologists have washed their hands of him after he went after them personally." I certainly did defend DEEP's right to participate in this forum; however, I am no apologist for him. I even enjoyed some of his posts. I did wash my hands of him, but he never went after me personally. I saw him go after others with a vengeance. I saw the ugly side taking complete control. I was speaking specifically of Patricia and Chris. There, better, now? I've followed their undying undevotion to DEEP for a couple of years and it's interesting to see them wax righteously indignant about what an ass he is. I could have saved everyone a lot of time and trouble and told you: DEEP IS AN ASS. I have no intention of reading his stupid threads. I'm not that hard up for entertainment. O-fricking-kay?

Jeez, I hope you don't think I was talking about you because I wasn't. I haven't followed DEEP's exploits here. I saw this thread and wondered what had happened THIS time. Turns out it's just the usual

How ironic that DEEP's chief apologists have washed their hands of him after he went after them personally. Previously, when he was going after others (and I don't mean just me), it was considered entertaining and his targets were considered poor sports. I recall him savaging really nice people at JC (that wouldn't be me, obviously, since I fixed his wagon REAL good) and everyone just lapping it up like sour milk then getting just so indignant that the victims didn't have a better sense of humor. The tired excuse that he knew a lot about jazz, which justified putting up with his crap was outrageous. What goes around comes around.

Hmmm. In that context, they have a lot less yummy appeal.

Oh gawd, I just lost 5 measly pounds and those bloody cookies will go on sale in two weeks. I can eat a half a box of thin mints in an instant. They sell them outside the grocery stores on Saturday mornings, everywhere. I'm doomed. Sigh.

i'll take steely dan, thanks. or, preferably, the minutemen, who have even BETTER lyrics. (their cover "doctor wu" is pretty great too.) tastes differ but really, i wanna hear a funny carlos story or joke. it'd make me resent him for filling up the .99 cent bins less. out, clem That's how Steely Dan got here. I never said SD couldn't play, I said that they play boring music. In the Bay Area, find SD on the smooth jazz channel and "soft" rock stations. In the Bay Area, find Santana on nearly every channel except classical and jazz. That's how much Santana stinks. I never said SD was only played on smooth stations. I wasn't the one who raised SD as an issue. I agree, the comparison is weird. Like I said, not liking someone's music is a person's perogative. But SOME of the comments here seem to be directed at him personally. Miles Davis was a little skinny wife beating asshole and I still like his music.

i'll take steely dan, thanks. or, preferably, the minutemen, who have even BETTER lyrics. (their cover "doctor wu" is pretty great too.) tastes differ but really, i wanna hear a funny carlos story or joke. it'd make me resent him for filling up the .99 cent bins less. out, clem That's how Steely Dan got here. I never said SD couldn't play, I said that they play boring music. In the Bay Area, find SD on the smooth jazz channel and "soft" rock stations. In the Bay Area, find Santana on nearly every channel except classical and jazz. That's how much Santana stinks.

I posted this at AAJ: Wow, what a slap in the face of people who participate on this board. Apparently membership with privileges is limited to "core" members? Everybody else can go to hell? For the record, I'm equally put off by the carping over at the other board that's directed at Mike and AAJ. But at the end of day, it seems that all parties in this mess deserve to be in the same festering sore together. There has to be a better way for a jazz fan to participate in the jazz community than this stuff. The jazz community is too small for this kind of pettiness. This is like sports or some other sort of team loyalty crap. ****************************************************************** I think the events of the past couple of days reflect poorly on the jazz community. With every thing else going on in the world, this just doesn't seem worth it.

I must be missing something here. I am a big, big fan of Steely Dan and I think Santana is great. I especially love his tone. So, where do I fit, if I like them both?? Where you fit in is that you have good taste some of the time. Nobody's perfect. (It's a joke, okay?) RE The superficial crap comment: How can you pre-judge a piece of work that hasn't even been created yet? Wouldn't you have to be a fortune teller to decide today that a piece of work that may still be in Carlos' head is going to be superficial crap? I just love it when people pre-judge something they haven't seen, heard or read. In this case, it doesn't even EXIST YET.

I must be missing something here. I am a big, big fan of Steely Dan and I think Santana is great. I especially love his tone. So, where do I fit, if I like them both?? Where you fit in is that you have good taste some of the time. Nobody's perfect. (It's a joke, okay?) RE The superficial crap comment: How can you pre-judge a piece of work that hasn't even been created yet? Wouldn't you have to be a fortune teller to decide today that a piece of work that may still be in Carlos' head is going to be superficial crap? I just love it when people pre-judge something they haven't seen, heard or read. In this case, it doesn't even EXIST YET.

I played Sacred Fire this morning. It is one of my favorite recods because it is such a showcase for his talent. Not only is Carlos a brilliant guitar player, he is versatile and has the ability to assemble the finest musicians in order to create a kick ass band. There are reggae beats, rock, Afro Cuban and African rythmns, jazz, solid vocal work and even some Yoruba chanting. I can see why folks who dig Steely Dan wouldn't necessarily like Santana. In these parts, Steely Dan is found on the Smooth Jazz station, and rightfully so. I don't dig SD. It doesn't mean they can't play, it just means I find their music boring. Some of the commentry aired here seems to be more personally directed at Santana. Just because you don't like someone's music doesn't mean they can't play. This he-peaked-in-the-1960's stuff is pretty funny. The man is still growing and exploring as an artist. Frankly, I'm glad he's not stuck in the 1960's.

Doesn't a piece of music become "reinvented" every time it is performed? Unless jazz belongs in a museum in which case no one should ever touch it and it should be kept in hermetically sealed display cases, why not turn it inside out?. The worst that can happen is that it will sound awful. It wouldn't mar Coltrane's original work. I wonder if Coltrane would be so hard on Santana if he were still alive. I thought Coltrane was all about breaking the rules.

Thanks for the tip. I'll add that to my buy list.

I almost bought a ticket but I shot my wad with Tyner again this year. Probably going to see Cobham later. Let me know how it goes with the "Project."

Every year, McCoy Tyner does a two-week "residency" at Yoshi's in January/February. One week he plays with a trio and the other week he plays with a quartet or quintet. Last week he played with Jeff "Tain" Watts and Christian McBride. If was an inspired and very satisfying hour of music. Watts is a mutha on drums. A friend went to see this trio and the night he went, Watts sort of went "out." He started playing a solo and McCoy couldn't get him to come back. It was apparently a very long, very wonderful solo. At some point Watts "came to," and they finished the tune. At the beginning of the next song, McBride walked over to Watts and whispered something in his ear. My friend said Watts looked all over sheepish. As nice as that was, seeing McCoy this week with Pharoah Sanders, Ravi Coltrane, Charnett Moffett, and Eric Harland was just breathtaking. First off, I've been going to the "residency for the past four or five years. This run is as inspired as I think I've seen McCoy play in a while. Pharoah with McCoy is simply pure magic. Coltrane is a very fine player, but whenever Sanders would play, it was just on a whole other level. Sanders went "out" during the middle of one song and the further out he went, the better it got. They played one sentimental tune "Say It (Over and Over Again," which he had previosuly recorded with John Coltrane and one of my favorite Coltrane ballads, and the first few notes brought sighs of "ahhhh" and "ohhhhh" from the crowd. A crowd, I might add, that sat in rapt silence for the 75+ minutes they played. Typically McCoy plays a tight hour set but the crowd really connected with him and he just kept playing. They played one down and funky blues tune with Sanders doing his usual cut-up when he plays the blues. He'd blow one long note then bend over and scream, blow a note, scream, pretty cool. I see Pharoah just about every time he comes to Yoshi's and I'm amazed at his strength and control even after all these years. He is really amazing. Sanders plays more in this run than he does when he's playing with his own band. McCoy lets the others take the time to do long and intricate solos. McCoy's own playing is masterful. He is quick, powerful and soulful in his playing. My friend saw him on another night and we both agreed that we were incredibly lucky to see these two giants play together. McCoy remarked about how special it was to be playing with old friends and the offspring of old friends. It was a very touching moment. The other treat for me was Moffett. That man made the bass, walk, talk, cry and do the funky chicken. I appreciate McBride (and yes, it is really unfair to compare) but he's never moved me as a stand out player. Moffett is, again, on a whole other level. Moffett and Harland engaged in a dialogue on one tune that had everybody clapping and shouting. Man, what a night.