JSngry

Reading between the lines here: it sounds like all the recording done was legit, and that perhaps even the release of something was discussed and agreed to in principal. I'm reading that everybody's "involvement" was "willing" and that the "recording sessions" were "deliberate and dedicated" and that Ornette's participation in those sessions was "willing" and that these same sessions were done with his "consent". This talk is all about the sessions themselves, though, and it sure sounds like nobody signed anything sanctioning release. However, there were definitely verbal declarations recorded, as evidenced on the CD, so maybe snippets or extended exchanges can be offered up for the defense. But whether or not that matters depends on lawyers and judges. Oh the humanity! Shoe on other foot/devil's advocate, though - let's say that these sessions transpired as stated, finished product given to Ornette as a gift/thank you/whatever, even acquiescence in the face of some legal/other muscle being applied, and are never released by System Dialing due to whatever conspirance of circumstance, and at some point, either prior due or after the fact of Ornette's cessation of existence on the earthly plane, somebody in Ornette's camp decides hey, this is pretty interesting music, let's put it out, and it comes out as an Ornette Coleman album. Who's gonna be suing who then, and for what, exactly? Ornette's people be saying, hey, you gave it to us, System Dialing be saying yeah, but not like THAT, and then, does anybody ever root against Ornette? I know I don't. But from everything I can tell, that doesn't mean that his business stories are always the unfettered objective business truths either. I still want to know, has anybody asked - or tried to ask - Adam Holzman about all this?

I see that Amazon is offering this at various prices in the $20.00 range. If anybody gets it, please post if the deluxe packaging, illuminating historical essays, state-of-the-art remastering, and treasure trove of alternate cover/location photos are worth $20.00. I already have the music.

Still for sale: http://systemdialingrecords.com/ And they are sticking to their story: http://systemdialingrecords.com/headlines-rumors/hey-world-for-the-record/ Now let's see who can afford the best lawyers.

Either a deal cut (certainly not right away, though) or else blatant fucquitousness being displayed, it's been released on CD in Japan as a singe and in he US as a two-fer. http://www.amazon.com/There-Will-Never-Another-You/dp/B000793B64/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/002-2185438-6580831?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1188355117&sr=8-3/sonnyrollinsc-20 http://www.amazon.com/Impulse-There-Will-Never-Another/dp/B0051KFV3U/ref=ntt_mus_ep_dpi_15

unobtainium

Oooo....new word learned here. Thanks!

It all goes back to this, French RCA, 1981: Not sure how THAT got released, but it was the first - and last - vault-dipping into RCA's fairly expansive Rollins holdings (Coda once pulished a discography of all known unreleased sessions, and the list was pretty...mind-boggling). Sonny heard about this, immediately put the kibosh on further sales of this item (a few got imported into the US, but not many), went lawyerball on RCA and the final deal was that the vaults would forever more be sealed, this little bit of leakage excepted. I'm pretty sure that not everything that's still left in there is going to be worthy of release. But the stuff that came out here was such a joyful mindfuck at the time, that I've got to think that there's more of merit to be found, if/when Sonny reassessess his attitude. And funnily enough, watching the material on this set come out on the RCA box and the various individual releases of 60s Sonny that Bluebird did, people who hadn't known any better just assumed that it was all of a piece and so many of them were all holy shit, this is GREAT how did THIS get so overlooked, and the answer is, because it's never really been heard until now, that's why.

The whole recoiling-in-horror-from-the-notion-of-sauce thing is, around here, anyway, a fairly recent foody trend. There's a core area down around Lockhart that has always held that position, they're freakin' militant about no sauce, you wanted sauce, go someplace else. And their point about the meat being the thing was and is valid. But it's kinda gotten "trendy" now, and like all such things, I'm indulging in it to learn the lessons its teaching, but hell, sometimes, like the ribs at The Country Tavern in Kilgore, where the sauce becomes as much a part of the rib as the meat itself, and the sauce is THAT good, hell yeah, trendiness be damned, leave that sauce on there, please! And for the local pits that, uh, need a little help sometimes, pass the sauce, please. What I do like about the no-sauce trend is that it forces the pit-masters to REALLY get it right. The ones who can pull it off, hey, thank you. And those who can't quite pull it off...yeah, pass the sauce, please. And my vegetarian wife, she's made the pork shoulder roasts I don't know how many times, and Monday just up out of nowhere says, "You think you'd like gravy with this?" Uh....YES!

Pretty much stolen liberated straight from the RCA vaults, so, pretty darn good.

sorry, of course i meant the gate maybe this can be corrected. it have done been did

Oh, it's good alright. That top layer of fat on the shoulder roast surrenders so much flavor and so much richness during the course of a six hour slow cooking, I swear, I've never had such fine gravy. And I've been tempted to take that layer off once the roast is done and attempt some kind of cracklin' thing. But that sounds a little too guilty-pleasure-y, if you know what I mean. My wife is a vegetarian (and has been for almos as long as I've known her, 30+ years), but she fixes meat like she's some sort of Queen Meat Sorceress or something. I got lucky on that one.

This last one, we just slow cooked it in the oven with a good rub and pot-roast vegetables, and then Brenda took the drippings and made gravy. Sauce is optional at best here (I've grown to be a bit ascetic about sauce on barbeque, as the smoke and the rub as it has taken hold on and in the meat and its moistness should be the purpose of the taste), but if there's no smoke but there is gravy, it's on. Open-faced pulled pork on wheat bread with gravy (which is full of onions, carrots, and such) that's been bumped with a generous pouring of Sontava Habanero, mmmm....like Monday lunch Sunday pot roast leftovers, only with juicy tender well-rubbed pulled pork, and a richer gravy that a pot roast would ever care to bargain for.

I've been casually picking up McPherson on Xanadu the last few years, and it was a strong, strong run. Much more strong than his earlier things on Prestige. I get the whole "ghosts" things that him and Lonnie Hilyer got when they came on the scene, but McPherson stayed on point (jargon burrrrp) and got really strong. I suppose that's a big DUH for people who came to him fully formed, but other than the epic solo on "The Chill Of Death", I don't know that anything he did early-ish on was really..."griping" for me. The Xanadu stuff, otoh, still bebop, but like somebody said in another thread, the guy's a thinker, and a thinker eventually/hopefully reaches some well-founded conclusions. That's McPherson's Xanadu records, well-founded conclusions.

can`t find the release date of this platter, but must be around 1967 - as the Dells signed with Cadet 1966 and and inter alias became the touring vocal backup group for Ray Charles, it is possible they also were "moonlighting" on the O W Brown release .... their first Cadet LP "There Is" was released in 1967 ...... Yeah, 1967 sounds feels exactly right. The Dells are on just one cut, but they're...obvious, if you know what I mean. Those guys would take the gigs, money in the bank. Hits are not guaranteed, session fees are, math FTW, and ideally, both. As it was for them. I love The Dells, truthfully, just as/because The Dells. Weren't but one The Dells, and they were always them. Also of "collector's interest" on this one is the presence of a Chess/Checker Gospel inner sleeve, one side all C.F. Franklin albums, the other,, not C.F. Franklin albums. I've neither seen nor had one of those before, so...very cool "object", and valuable-ish as document, I might think. A lot of gospel music records just get lost/forgotten about, and that is inevitably a distortion of American Music in general, Great Black Music in particular. Inner sleeves like this are that many that won't be completely forgotten, not just yet. But this O.W. Brown cat...not really happening at all, and on a label where pretty much everybody was happening...not sure what that was all about. But...Sonny Thompson!

Other than Heavy Love, which is a stone classic imo, heavy love, so much soul, all that and then some, I know both of the Heaths & the Harris, and find all worthy of consideration. None are truly "essential" imo, except maybe the Harris, and then because of the mix of player and repertoire, if you want to go there with that, you can do it here. And frankly, the Jimmy Heath is a little "retro" after things like The Gap Sealer, but...that will please many, no doubt. The Dakar thing I've heard good things about, I think it's worth decent money to hear Billy Mitchell side by side with Al Cohn, just to see how much fun worlds pleasurably colliding can be. . Sam Most has yet to really hit my spot, but you can find plenty of others for whom the opposite is true. Still confused as to what is being reissued here...entire albums, "highlights" what, exactly? I see the number 23 but only see six album covers?

This music needed to be made. Whether or not this record did, or even, if it did, if this record needed to be made like this, hmmmm. But I've listened again to the record, and the music needed to be made, I think. If you ask me why, I'll give you some gobbledygook about expanding on the whole Tone Dialing thing, and getting techno-types to consider all the possibilities for going forth, which they/it definitely will be doing one way or the other, and then you can ask, ok, why does that need to happen, and then all I can say is, well, ok, maybe not, but - yes, anyway. So.

If this was your Ellington dream, would you wake up ASAP or keep going just to make sure that it ended?

Pork shoulder roast, yeah, we made one this past weekend. Meat literally pulls off the bone with no resistance whatsoever. It's a thing of beauty, it is.

The pits never bothered me, I mean, I got that part of it. It was the music and the whole "scene" around it. Felt like Emptiness In Search Of Its Loudest Self to me.

Off topic I guess, but what's wrong with Patti Smith? Just curious. Nothing "wrong" with her, I've just had an instinctual revulsion towards her music ever since her first record. I'm sure she's a nice lady, and I know she's meant a lot to a lot of people. I'm just not one of them, never have been, and not really looking to ever be one. My god, Horses droning on for hours on end out of cluelessly stoned peoples' apartments/houses/whatevers...wasted people, wasted noise, the whiny sound of self-loathing too lazy to do anything about itself except play loud and drone on. Just...was not interested in any part of it except avoiding it altogether.

If it is a bullshit move, then it is a bullshit move of epic kill your career and forever be known as The Guys Who Fucked Ornette proportion. That is either totally insane (literally) or else they've gotten some kind of "hey, just do it, you'll be ok" reinforcement at some level they must have taken pretty damn seriously, either out of ballsy naivite or ballsy certainty that the promise would hold up. Gotta be more to the story, and no matter what it is, it's probably unsettling as hell. Still and all, great record. Looking like one of the all-time great moral/business "miscalculations", but great record anyway. Probably better than this upcoming legit tribute album with Patti Smith is gonna be, even with Sonny Rollins (disclaimer - Patti Smith has always meant nothing to me. Like Elvis, I know she's a hero to some, but she never meant shit to me). Has Adam Holzman filed a lawsuit yet?

A press release for a lawsuit. Game on. I do not believe that story "exactly" because of this: I mean, really? Seriously? What kind of idiot is going to be outraged by that at face value? I'll be outraged at most records from the last half-century, then, without even listening to them. There's some "manufactured outrage", as they say. I still have a hard time believing that anybody so small would be so stupid/arrogant as to openly fuck over somebody of Ornette's stature...the trumpet player's with Antibalas, right? He's got to have a least some sense, probably? And what about Adam Holzman,where is he in all of this? He's a known quantity (and the son of Jac Holzman, iirc?). Are these motherfuckers THAT clueless? Are musicians that sociopathic about the business/industry? Could be? I don't see where they have any leverage at this point, so withdraw the release, settle up, and now we have a "collector's item". I'll be rich when I die, so kill me now. Funny thing, though, everybody I have played the record for, everybody, has really dug it. So, whatever the business is/shows itself as being, musical point made, hello 21st Century Herman Lubinsky, if only for this one quick minute.

Wahtever you can come up with would be much appreciated!

Aggressive big bands! (and sometimes a guilt-free pleasure!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1-B4Ihyq-U

Yeah, you can start off any kind of "aggressive" list with Buddy Rich and not be too far off the mark. Then again, Buddy could be aggressive with brushes. Can't say that about everybody!