JSngry

Some subtle, all-ACOUSTIC grease:

Ok, I've been wondering about this for quite a while, so I finally sat down & counted/charted bars & chord changes. The two A-sections are consistent at 14 bars (8+6) and follow the same progression (at the same rate) each time through. The bridge is 10 bars (it's on track to be 8 until bar 7, when he opens up the phrasing & makes what would usually be a 2 bar phrase into a 4 bar phrase. That sort of expansion fits right in w/what had been going on in the A-sections. The final C-section, is in two halves. the first is 8 bars, and it's in the second where things get a little slippery. Sounds like Marvin suddenly decides to add a few beats before getting into the "and the home..." line (not a goof, but a spontaneous "feel" thing). That causes this section to resolve on the 7th bar instead of the 6th, which would have been in keeping with the length of the two A-sections, 8+6. So yeah, Marvins' phrases are variable (but then again, Marvin was a phreaking master of phrasing - I've put together a CD of all the officially released versions of the Bobby Scott material, and the differences are RADICAL from take to take, year to year), but there's a symmetry & consistency to the accompaniment that leads me to believe that the arrangement was fixed in advance - and that there was a live keyboardist on hand to cover that extra bar towards the end. It's an amazing performance, & I've known a few people over the years who tear up at just the mention of it. But that's the kind of guy Marvin was. He could do that to you.

Marvin Gaye was one of the best singers of the 20th century. Period. The world is a poorer place without him.

A good goat'll do that for ya'.

Allen - check your email.

Well, ok, it's still a vanity name, but not from the oil company... http://www.cityofhumble.com/history.html

Seems as if he is headed in the Michael Jackson "look at me I'm a clown" direction. I think the Mick Jagger "look at me I'm still rockin' " direction is more a apt of a clown comparison. Prince, as "eccentric" as he is never has been as ungrounded and maladjusted as Jackson. As long as he keeps making interesting records (which is no means a guarantee - Musicology was a bitch, the followup a yawner), he can do whatever he wants/needs to do live. Different animals (on both sides of the peerformer/audience equation) altogether. Besides, does anybody think that Tina Turner is too old to still be doing her schtick?

Oh, don't worry, it's not THAT type of humble. It's this type: Humble was part of the Esso/Enco/Etc group that merged into Exxon. Maybe before your time?

Humble is down around Houston, fwiw.

Yeah, you're right. It was before Bach's time. I'm more than a little rusty on my Music History Memories. and dude, Michelle in The Last Movie is enticing, but Michelle in American Dreamer is DEADLY!

Yes, of course we can. Just not when interpreting Ornette's words.

It's a classic, but I still prefer Dippin', and by plenty.

Well, there's always Money In The Pocket

And I have no problem with any of that, coming from non-musicians. But musicians, even the ones who "stand pat" for whatever reason, should be able to recognize the validity and integrity of musics that they themselves do not necessarily particiapte in. I have a very difficult time with those who can't/don't/won't do that, because if you can't recognize that type of thing as a matter of general principal, then what kind of specific choices are you making for yourself? That was my point. No ill-will towards non-musicians simply liking what they like intended.

No, of course not, but the whole notion of "dated" this close after the fact is one I find, uh...peculiar at best. Depends on whose ears its being heard through, and when. Plenty of times when "dated" sounds come back recontextualized (on widely varrying levels) to become "in" again. Hell, the whole Bitches Brew "sound", long thought to be "dated", is making a comeback, sometimes as mere replication, sometimes as a starting point. Not for me to posit on the "wisdom" of that one way or the other, just to point out that I'd use a lot of words to describe something before I'd use "dated". Stuff keeps coming back around, and I'm hearing echoes of Miles' 80s work in today's "Neo-Soul" movement (along with lots of other "dated" sounds), and that's supposedly an "underground" sound of "today". Remember in the 70s when James Brown was considered "dated"? Who's saying that now? So the whole notion of what does and doesn't sound "dated" is one which I shy away from. Now, "outmoded", that's a term I can sink my teeth into. That goes more to function than to actual sound. But sound itself, how do you put a "date" on it? Once it's been created, it's going to circle around indefinitely and will most likely land at any number of different stops in the process.

Maybe NASA's been doing mind-control experiments on astronauts in outer space.

Well, ya' know, some people's choices make other people uncomfortable because daring to dream, much less acting on the dream, scares the shit out of them...

Could you adjust your signature photo so we can see her ass? Her face is pretty enough, but her ass is more prettier.

In 100 years (definitely 500 years), it's all going to sound dated...

Ok, so the guy wants to be a functional human being in the world he lives in. What does any of that have to do with jazz?

I dug him in those days. The record with Frog, Soulmates, is a m asterpiece. Great Joe, great Ben, Great Thad. To put a qualifier on my earlier comments---I wanted to avoid talking about music (so I won't answer your Barry v. Joe gambit) I have to say for clarification mostly that listening agian Weather Report to me is a bit turgid and pompous. Very little holds up. Also a guy I'm staying with here in Holland played a Zawinul Syndicated world tour CD and it also sort of bored my ass off. Again, I say this for for, er, clarification purposes....yeah, yeah. That's it.... Well there you go. You don't particularly like where Zawinul went. Fair enough, but are you sure that's not coloring your other opinions? I mean, any decent musician (and I stress musician because I don't expect non-musicians to have an interest in too much beyond whether or not they like the way something hits them) should be able to look at Zawinul's post-Cannonball music and recognize that it's not just a bunch of flashy formulaic easy bullshit. There's plenty of meat there, whether or not its a type of meat that's to your liking. Now, if you, as a musician who I'm sure recognizes the various elements that go into a composition, can't at least hear that much, then I just have to say that you got your head up your ass, which would offer a feasible enough explanation of why your ears would be full of shit. Is he wrong? It doesn't mean Barry is a bad player (he's a monster) but there are stylists and there are innovators. Zawinul didn't want to be a stylist, he wanted to innovate and so he did. Simple as that. It doesn't mean Barry's music is any less valid in the general sense, it just means that Zawinul didn't want to go down that route. Thankfully, he lived up to his own expectations of himself! I really don't agree with this. You don't 'choose' to innovate.' You evolve. Otherwise it could very well end up being awfully self-indulgent. To me the proof of and in part the definition of 'innovation' is usefulness to other people. That's why we call them trailblazers, right. I really mistrust this thing of wanting to innovate and then poof it happens. Real individuality is very, very rare. I've known a lot of guys that sang that song and their music didn't hold up. Again, there has to be a use of the innovation because it replaces and improves something that came before and outlived its usefulness. And that, I thhink, is one of the biggest lies of the post-Wynton generation, that one shouldn't "choose" to "innovate" because it's something that you can't make happen. Well, no, you can't force it, but you can seek it by challenging yourself to go beyond what you already know. Remember Miles' dictum to "don't play what you know. Play what you don't know"? Whatever happened to that? No, this whole, "I'll explore what's already known because pursuing my own individuality is going to be a dead end anyway" thing is a cop-out masquerading as "humility". Even if you'll never be an "innovator", you owe it to yourself to at least be an individual. And this fatalism towards accomplishing wven that little bit of not too much is what's allowed a lot of boring people with no ambitions beyond becoming competent craftsmen to kid themselves and the world at large into thinking that it's some sort of major accomplishment to to stand pat and just polish what's already been polished. That's a caretaker's job, nothing more and nothing less. It sure ain't the stuff that makes for progress in music or, more to the point, in life. Of course you can't "choose" to innovate. You either have it or you don't. But you sure as hell can choose to dig inside yourself to see what's in there beyond what's already been put there by history. I mean, sure, it's a "challenge" to perfect one's own abilities in a pre-existing paradigm, but let's be real - pretty much all the questions have already been answered, and the "challenge" mostly lies in getting the fingers to do the work. No small challenge, that, but if you already got a map, somebody else has done the really hard work. Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of craft & craftsmanship (and I have real issues w/people who try to "move ahead" wthout it), but it really pisses me off when I see craftsmanship equated with spirit. They're not at all the same thing, and this implicit contention that they are is nothing but a goddamned motherfucking LIE. A spirit that allows itself to be content with "mere" competence is a spirit that is content to leave things as they are, and that can be for only one of two reasons that I can see - either the way things are are already to your liking and you don't want to be "upset" or else you're at root, a coward who's afraid to find out what's really inside you. (and I'm using "you" rhetorically here, no personal directiveness intended) If you reached the first zone after doing a lot of searching & discovering (like, say, Horace Silver), hey, more power to you then, you've earned it (as long as you (hopefully) continue to evolve through refining and don't just turn into a regurgitator living off your past glories). But otherwise, it's a concession that to one degree or you're "done" as a growing, actively evolving human spirit. And quite possibly you never took the first steps towards even realizing that you could be such a thing. You're just going to be one of those people who accepts your role as defined by somebody other than yourself and who goes about the business of being a happy servant to a master who you chose w/o first exploring all the options (especially the ones that may or may not reside within yourself). Volunteered Slavery. Fuck that. Whatever one's opinions are of Zawinul's music (and for the record, I'm a big fan of a lot of WR, as well as that live Syndicate thing, but find a lot of "failures" along the way as well), I'd think that it must be noted that he was not somebody who chose to accept somebody else's definition of who/what he "should" be, and that alone makes him a hero of mine, as it does damn near every "jazz musician" who's worth a flying fuck in my book. He's stayed treu to his own definition of himself, even when the results weren't what they should have been. And when they were (more than often enoug imo), he accomplished something that the "craftsmen" of the world never can, will, or maybe even be able to conceive of - he built a house to live in that was of his own making. Some people rent forever (and DAMN is the joke on them...). Some people buy pre-owned and leave it as it is (oh well...). Some people buy pre-owned & rennovate (not a bad deal there, if you can pull it off). Some people buy new and either do or don't keep it fresh after they do (America is the land of opportunity, even if the opportunity is to get somewhere and stop). But a few people take up the challenge to design and build what they want how they want it. That's the Old World/Pioneer spirit at its finest if you ask me (especially when no indiginous peoples are exterminated, and I sure as hell don't see Zawinul "exterminating" Barry Harris or anybody else), and to hear all this talk that it's not even a goal worth pursuing in the first place tells me a lot about why the Jazz Cave continues to get mustier and mustier.

This wouldn't have happened under Dr. Bellows' reign.

Well yeah. Even if you throw everything out, what's already in there is still going to be in there at some level. It's just more likely to come out as spirit rather than imitation.

http://britam.org/genealogy/Hebrew-Names.html