JSngry

1968 and 1969. I like Warm a lot better than Cool, but that's just me. Sebesky's fully formed here, and there is Rhodes. It's pretty much like Freddie Playing "Uncle Albert" only a few years earlier and with shorter tracks. And, of course, with Jack Sheldon instead of Freddie.

This is still not the 20th Century(!) - "root notions" are continuing to evolve, possibly changing forever (or at least until they change again...). Since we're now beginning to see data/evidence that the tendency towards domestic abuse translates across gender/orientation lines into same-sex relationships, the responsible (i.e. - scientific) thing to do is to look at this thing holistically and not look at it as one of those 20th Century things where if we can just fix straight men, the problems of the world will all get fixed. Not a bad place to start, but no, they won't. I mean: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6113571/ Those are pretty serious numbers, and it either means that LGBTQ people are "naturally" more inclined towards violent behavior (if that's the case, let's just fix the straight men and let the rest of humanity figure it out for themselves since there are different "root natures" involved) or that power dynamics and dysfunctionality of same exist throughout the species and need to be/are best studied across gender/orientation lines to better understand the root causes (can I say "triggers" here?) - and then to meaningfully manage the outcomes for everybody. You tell me - which is the more informed path, accepting the conventional wisdom, or following the data?

Oh my! plus:

TTK - you have been delequent in pointing out the Sheldon/Sebesky albums..

The Wagner album, nice as it is (sic) was a bit of a scam in a lot of ways. All Kenton did was copy from the score, literally. No real "adaptation" at all, just a transcription from one orchestral score onto another one. And the liner notes tell of his big encounter with Ravel, like they had a meaningful conversation and shit. Well, a decade or so later, Kenton cops that they didn't really talk, that it was just an introduction, a greeting, and that was all there was to it, over in the blink of an eye. That's the kind of bullshithypepropaganda that I've had to work to get away (because, yeah, in the beginning I bought into a lot of that, and finding out that it was all lies was a jolt, to put it mildly) from when looking at the body of music released under the name of "Stan Kenton". There was a HUGE buttload of hype and propaganda in real time that turned really vile in the early days of the "lab/stage band" movement, and...if one got mired in all that (and getting you to step into it all sure seemed to be the goal), getting the distance to be objective about the music itself has been, for me anyway, a bit of a journey. And yet, YET, in the middle of all that nonsense, Willie Maiden, telling the truth (when nobody's looking):

I really like the notes to the Hair album in that regard (almost as I like the good parts of the record).

There's also domestic violence by women against women in same-sex relationships. The data is beginning to form. It's a power/dominance thing, regardless of gender.

All I can say is that there were some excellent Kenton albums made after that, the Dee Barton album in particular and then the Redlands & Brigham Young albums on Creative World. The story of how Kenton semi-retired and then put bands together for very limited "tours" and gradually built up from that is a genuinely inspiring tale. I'm sure he perceived himself as wandering in the wilderness searching for redemption (or a water hole...), and for once (maybe the only time), his self-mythologizing was fully accurate. That was the beginning of what I call the "True Believer" era, when none of the players were stragglers in from other bands and other gigs, but were all people who truly believed in The Kenton Concept as The One True Way. When they were in full throttle (and not getting hung up in Hank Levy silliness), their belief was justified. Any band who is "all in" is a wonderful thing. Dick Shearer, you are not forgotten.

A perfect meal for a perfect game!

"Gloomy Sunday" was very effective indeed. From that same album..."Girl Talk" continues to fascinate, it's like Ahmad Jamal if Amahd Jamal had been Stan Kenton. The whole Artistry In Bossa Nova album is a chill listen, I like that one a good bit, actually. My only point is that these arrangements all follow the same conventions in the writing as ever, there's not any real variety or evolution. That's ok, but just saying, I don't think he could have done just that for 30+ years. It's to his credit that he appears to have realized that very early on, and then proceeded accordingly. But I don't know that that makes him a "restless searcher" or whatever as much as it does a good businessman and a smart bandleader. Basie took the same approach, really, just in a different idiom - get a certain sound, and then find guys who would each put their spin on it. Woody Herman too. Hell Boyd Raeburn didn't write anything. The Tommy Dorsey band, hell, that pretty much WAS a corporation, they had staff this and staff that, one guy wrote these things, another guy wrote those things... There are people who were dedicated to actual writing, learning and expanding both the craft and the art, and who actually were "restless searchers" or the like. Stan Kenton was not one of them. Just saying - credit for the business, credit - where due - for the music, but 100% calling bullshit on the "mystique".

Do you remember what was on the menu that day? Or did y'all bring from home?

Domestic violence is not limited in its perpetration to just one gender. The sooner we can get that out in the open, the sooner we can become effective at truly addressing the roots/causes of the behaviors involved.

I don't at all think he was a "great" arranger, or even a "good" one, really, not in any traditional sense of being able to adapt to different bands' requirements. He was pretty limited in that regard, actually. He could do what he could do, period. One can make the case that he set the template for his bands with his arrangements and then everybody else built off of that, and that's a fair point indeed (but only up to a point. But - his arrangements never (and I've by now listened to pretty much the entirety of the bands chronology in reasonable depth, so I can say "never" with confidence) moved past his own basic format/formula. I've said this elsewhere and it bears repeating - left entirely to his own musical devices (as arranger and as pianist), he'd probably not made it too much past Balboa and a few Swing Era novelty hits. This is not a criticism, it's simply an observation based on empirical data. Attempts to defend Kenton as if it were a criticism only lead us back into the land of hype, hyperbole, and insular inanity that surrounded the band in its time. That does a severe disservice to all involved, because, yes, Kenton was a mover and a shaker as a corporate leader, and yes, there was a lot of talent in his corporation, and yes, he had some very good bands to represent his corporate brand. And often enough, the actual music had merit too! But by god, let's appreciate it for what it was, and not try to twist it into something it wasn't (I've heard Kenton equated with Ellington several hundred times in my lifetime, and that represents such a perversely skewed perspective about damn near everything that it frightens me, seriously, it frightens me). That's what killed it for me back in the day, and it's taken me decades to rebuild what for me is an accurate perspective of enjoyment and appreciation about the whole thing.

So Don Larsen = the last person living to play with Bird, if Bird were the St. Louis Browns? That's history in and of itself. Woops, not yet: https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/List_of_living_St._Louis_Browns_players List edited today, no doubt to remove Larsen.

Unless you know exactly how long you're going to live, this is one of those to get - and then listen to - ASAP.

Kenton did this solo album for Creative World in late 1973.I find it sincere but ultimately (immediately?) shallow (and if you think that the duet album is a bore/drag, by all means forget you ever heard tell of this one). The guy was not exactly an endless font of ideas, if you know what I mean. As far as being an "endless searcher", what he was endlessly searching for was arrangers who could realize his "vision" (such as it was). Many of them did so with wonderful results, and I've come to appreciate Kenton's own role as organizer/facilitator on an organizational/corporate model, but as an individual talent - especially as a pianist - he was, again, sincere but ultimately shallow. Not that he couldn't play, just that it was always/only going to be what it was going to be. Always. Those intros, interesting as they sometimes are, never really changed that much. Not that they needed to, but again, this was a guy where "different" really came from within his organization, not his own intrinsic self. Sincere, but... Now having said that, those 70s bands of his, what they lacked in distinctive solo talent, they made up for with a distinct ensemble approach. What Ramon Lopez contributed was significant and more than made up for Kenton's lack of, as the OP described it, He doesn´t seem to play much during the big band sections, at least he does not solo, maybe he´s conducting ? I saw that band a good number of times during this period, and no, he usually wasn't conducting, he was stitting at the piano listening to his band. And it was a good listen. I don't blame him.

Benny Carter was very open about ghost-writing being his gateway to film/TV scoring. Of course, he had to speak up, to say hey, when do I get MY shot? (and lord knows, that was a question asked with no guarantee of a desired outcome), but still, that was how dues go paid in that world in that time. Best as I can tell, all the name arrangers had "staff". None of it (at that level) was a one man shop.

Yeah, "ghost writing" was (is?) standard practice in those days. not a big deal in and of itself, imo, that's just how things got done.

Well, all the albums have, and that's probably what "they" wanted. But this focused collation of just trio tracks,,,I think it's a really good way to hear certain things about Horace as both player and composer that aren't always to the forefront of the band recordings. Just my opinion, though. "They" don't ask me what I think.

His original inspiration was Earl Hines.

I knew him as a more reality-based talent... for the quick minute that him and Ken Johnson were both on the staff, it was an All Star Trivia Fest. RIP, and am now left wondering how many living former St. Louis Browns there are?

You mean we have to hear that damn Al Stewart song again?

Yeah, this is an "essential" set (musically as well as thematically), and has yet to be satisfactorily replicated digitally, afaik,

Diddy Galippy!