robertoart

Ding. I think we have a winner. Actually you might be right in terms of the amount of construction and invention in his longer solos. The Vanguard stuff (the LP selection of tracks, I mean) is a benchmark. A lot of his records don't really show what he can do though. Yes. Admittedly, most of my understanding of the inexhaustible invention of Rollins is anecdotally validated by the opinion of others. Usually from his live performances. I haven't listened to nearly as much Rollins as I have Coltrane. Indeed the 'legend' of Rollins seems based on these very qualities in performance. I never really think of him as a speedy player though, the way I do Griffin. Even if there's probably a ton of recorded evidence that he is if he wants to be. Tal Farlow is another one notorious for his tempo's, but I don't consider him a master of melodic invention so much, same way early Benson wasn't. Who are the Piano players that embody these qualities? I suppose Oscar Peterson is yet another that falls into the fast but generic category as well?

From All Music Guide. MG Yes indeed. He used to tour Australia a lot a few years ago. Very renowned for being just as skilled at organ and guitar. I didn't know he was a child prodigy though. Or should I say - a near infant prodigy.

Ding. I think we have a winner.

So anyone heard this yet? So what else is out there circulating amongst 'collectors'?

The Hobsbawm 'diary' link is a great read. So Marlowe Morris is definitely on the Jazz side of Blues? Wild Bill Davis like perhaps. And here's the sound itself - to use an old Australian colloquialism - 'shit hot!" I totally get where Hobsbawm was coming from hearing this.

George Benson and Ronnie Cuber in that ridiculously hyperactive band with Lonnie Smith? Although I suppose the music is driven more by energy and fast chops than by nimble 'ideas' based improv? It's an interesting distinction though. Coltrane? But then people say even Coltrane is relying more on the Harmonic concept and the patterns and scales that go with it, rather than 'pure' melodic invention. I love hearing Braxton play at fast tempos, also on standards and modal stuff. That 10foot saxaphone slows him down though

That's very interesting. That passage you highlight from the liner notes stood out and remained with me as well when I first read it (albeit via the early 90's cd issue ). I often recall it in my mind when I think about things related to the music. Certainly the music isn't ambitious in the way so much Jazz was/is, but it ain't easy to learn to play either. It's still really the earthy side of Be-bop (or at least Babyface is - the music Hobsbawm had in mind might be from closer to the R&B spectrum perhaps? Who is Marlowe Morris MG?) Hobsbawm seems to be from an earlier generation of Left wing thinkers that I know not much about, but I am getting the feeling he was like a 60's Slavoj Zizek perhaps, in terms of being a kind of Left wing public intellectual.

0-0 No Eric Clapton or Sting either.

My link

Just found this video on youtube! A nice recent snippet of Mel Rhyne and Calvin Keys.

Me too. Me too

That's an interesting mix of soul and jazz on those labels. I only knew of it through the Larry Young album. But knowing the Tyrone Washington love on this board l'm sure many will be familiar with it. RegrettabIy, I don't know enough about the Soul music of the time to be too familiar with a lot of the artists . But it was interesting to see Lucky Peterson being recorded as a 5 year old? I know of the great tradition in Black music to record and celebrate the talents of the very young ie., little Georgie Benson, Stevie Wonder etc. but 5yo seems to be pushing it

Australia's funny like that. But it's becoming more circumspect with regards to larrikins like Rex. My link It will be interesting to see if Hawthorn make the Grand Final again next year. If they do, I don't think they'll lose it a second time.

It looks like this guy made the move straight from country football (I think that translates to Minor Leagues in the US at least), to Canada. But the other Aussies in the story (playing in the US) are all well known ex-AFL stars. I think this trend will only get bigger. And now with the success of Mike Pike it might be a two way street. Cross cultural sporting exchanges like this might be good for these blokes. Knock a bit of Cosmopolitanism into them

Well I don't quite know how to begin to tell you about good old Rex Not retired exactly, more kind of 'moved on' by his network 3AW and Channel Seven. Or maybe he changed networks and it didn't work out. But I heard recently that he commentates still for one of the AFL in-house affiliates. Rex was/is an interesting character to say the least. He was a moderately successful Footballer of the Sixties/Seventies, who had quite a long career despite not being a true champion. He was around the periphery of the Sports-media world here for a long time - until somewhere along the line he started a fishing show on TV and became kind of a cult figure. As you know his commentary style, this will make sense I guess Anyway, with the combination of the fishing show and his Football commentary, he went from cult figure to a very big mainstream celebrity, for quite a while. Eventually age and over exposure got the better of him. As he began his footy career at my team Richmond, and he remained a Tiger supporter all the way, I have a soft spot for him despite the fact that he was a very conservative right winger outside of football, very much like a shock jock kind of personality. 3AW is the king of the shock jock airwaves here in Melbourne. His professional demise also may have been hastened by being blackmailed by his long term 'mistress', which was all over the media at the time, and Rex did not handle it well. My link On his fishing program, he was famous for kissing the fish and throwing them back in the water, as a gesture of respect and good conservation He was fun to listen to as a footy commentator, and he has quite a few disciples who now try to follow his 'gonzo' style of calling. Grand Final this year was a classic. Glad you got to hear it. Will it be played on TV at all over there?

Yeah, I've been buying from Tom at Jazz Record Revival for many years. I just got an email from someone called Adrien telling me Lawrence Of Newmark was already in the mail. That's fast service. I just did a quick google and found out Tom Burns runs the business and they also have a record label called Capri. Anyway, I hope the $10 re-issue is not a better sounding vinyl than this original But I've rarely heard a digital sourced vinyl trump an original pressing. And it will be pretty special to have a first pressing of this. I doubt there are many copies of the original that made their way to Australia back in the day. Anyone know much about the history of Perception as a label? Sounds short lived.

Que significa "tube cut"? Pressed on the London underground between Maida Vale and Kilburn Park MG Isn't Kilburn associated with Ian Dury in some way. Very Dubious Re-tube cuts. Basically all Beatles original UK vinyl up to Abbey Road was cut to vinyl using tube/valve equipment. Giving it that spacious warm sound. Same as we usually expect from Jazz recordings of the same era. With US Beatles records, tape copies were sent to America and re-mastered by Dave Dexter to beef up the sound for radio. They also incorporated the UK ep's into the LP's to create more product. That's why the UK originals sound so good and are the ones to listen to. In the UK, they continued to use the tube cut lacquers on Beatles re-issues up to the early Seventies. Apparently, although I have not heard it, the only US Beatle album that is comparable sound quality wise, is the Mono Magical Mystery Tour LP. Unless you find a charity store copy.or something like it, you probably won't get that one under $150 these days. In Australia, being part of the good old Commonwealth, we got sent the same lacquers, or metal masters, to cut our Beatles vinyl (except for a few Lp's). So our Beatles vinyl sounds mostly just as good, and sometimes better, than the Uk counterparts Having said that, I've got a UK Stereo Revolver first press I scored for about $30 off ebay a few years ago that sounds exquisite. I learnt all I know from the Hoffman Forums

Anyone that might appreciate a Liberty Stereo Larry Young Into Something should look here. My link It's $40US. It's been sitting there unsold for over a year I think. I just scored an original NM Lawrence Of Newark here for $60. About two years ago I got a NM Liberty Idle Moments for$20. They price very reasonably and their grading is accurate.

Not bad, to say the least ! Yes. That's a nice run Pity about the light ticks on Full House, I'll take it off your hands for a fiver

Great story about Mike Pike. There is a bit of history with overseas players coming to the AFL. It is kind of a continuation of the connection some visionary Football thinkers made between Australian Rules and Irish Gaelic football. Because of similarities between the games, during 1980's some Irish Gaelic football stars were encouraged to give Aussie Rules a go. One player in particular, Jim Stynes, became a champion. Several Irishman have since become successful players, and now recruiters have broadened their scope towards other sports. I guess the logic is that exceptional athletic skills can be transferrable with the right attitude and good coaching. Many AFL players now also extend their careers by going to the US as Gridiron kickers and have some success. The weather will have an impact on the game today. It will be windy and possibly wet. So kicking for goal will be more difficult. Good foot skills and getting first use of the ball will be important. I think the last time it rained a bit on Grand Final day was 2008, that's when Hawthorn won their last flag

And their were any number of Brits who shared the views espoused by Hitler and Wagner etc. all. Including the abdicating King and Mrs Simpson. It wasn't just isolated to the Germanic thing. There was also the emergent Vitalist movement that was popular in certain circles across the Western world during the rise of the Nazi Party, which also had affinities with Fascist ideas of 'the body'. And was probably also connected in some way to antisemitism.

My link Here's an interesting series of exchanges on this topic by 'Barry and Mark', exploring the relationship between Wagner's antisemitism and it's textual presence in in his music. I find the arguments by the writer Barry - that because Wagner's antisemitisim and scapegoating of the Jews was intrinsic to his subjectivity, it was also intrinsic in his music - an interesting one. And I think this is one of the pivotal points to think about in these kinds of discourses. Also, I have never researched or known about the actual ways Wagner publicly organised his antisemitism into ideology, as others here so obviously already know, so regarding the 'normative question', I think it swings on the space between the intrinsic antisemitism of history, and it's incorporation into cultural ideology. As the normative position of non-Jews was anti-Jew, so I would say the manifestation of this into systematic antisemitism - by those with the cultural and ideological agency to do so -(ie, Wagner), was also a normative position. The history of Christianity -from every perspective - also follows a similar path, it just didn't play itself out in the holocaust (in name at least), although as a belief system and ideology of it's own, it was as normatively reprehensible and responsible as the 'teutonic purity' push was. At the end of the day, the 'listen to Wagner - don't listen to Wagner' choice is a purely subjective one, that will eventually be normalised culturally - one way or the other - by weight of numbers, which appears to be happening in Israel now, if the overwhelming majority stayed and didn't leave.

Well perhaps on the radio and ipod Wagner is somehow distanced. A part of the disembodied digital world. In the concert hall the music takes on a certain kind of psychic-corporeality perhaps. This really is another tangent on how you deal with the dilemma of separating the art from the artist. And where do you draw the line. In the case of antisemitism - and the 'European canon' - who out of anyone that wasn't a Jew didn't harbour deep seated and ingrained cultural and personal aversion to Jews as a people. Probably not many. It was part of the collective consciousness, far beyond just the Germanic culture. That Hitler loved Wagner, and Wagner had a known social text of antisemitism, made him the perfect fit to be the musical poetry for the Holocaust. It also makes him a good symbol for contemporary Jews to use as a cultural focus to 'maintain the rage'. Hitler also loved Rembrandt, who, chances are, may have been just as antisemitic as Wagner.

He would if he accidentally dropped his baritone on one. I've got a vinyl of SOS. I haven't listened to it in so long I can't remember much about it. I know I love Bluiett every time I hear him though. That's a BIG sound. I used to have a Black Saint one that I lent to someone and never saw again. It had a guitarist on it with the coolest name, 'William Spaceman Patterson'. There's a Music Revelation Ensemble Lp with Bluiett on, it's some of the heaviest music I've ever heard.

Yes and that is beautiful man. But whatever playing you have developed over a lifetime, however eclectic, is still going to represent the principles you valorise in music. And I can't imagine from reading your posts here, that not a little of that must seep into your 'business' gigs. All the people on here that are open about their own music activities and opinions have a streak of the musical-polemicist about them. I think I was being conscious that all the great movements in Jazz represent more than just the changing of aesthetics for it's own sake. polemical  [puh-lem-ik, poh-] Part of Speech: adjective Definition: argumentative Synonyms: belligerent, combative, contentious, contrary, controversial, disputatious, eristic, factious, fire-eating, having a chip on one's shoulder, litigious, opinionated, polemic, pugnacious, quarrelsome, salty, scrappy, spiky, touchy