robertoart

I'm sure your ears are fine. I was just pointing out that the formal similarities will exist across most ethnic/folk musics and the Blues. Probably lots of musicians and music scribes would be hoping in some way to reconcile their social history with their listening history. Does the author make any big claims beyond just exploring the social connections/oral history of Jewish/Jazz networks? Same for Zorn? How does he talk about the Blues and Jewish music - is it anything beyond just exploring musical homonym's - or does he think it's something more significant. His Post-Modernist free-play seems really old fashioned now.

Letterman! I guess if you've ever wondered what James Brown would sound like covering Exile On Main Street this would be it. Pretty good stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTT-pxOUF08

I don't think Klezmer music sounds like Blues at all. I think the formal elements you highlight as similar, are a part of nearly all (European and other) grass-roots folk musics. Not sure about the connections that Zorn makes either, are these to do with formal structures or word based story and narrative? To me the Blues is the Blues - and its essence is not paralleled in any other music (save for its original African musical-etymology). In fact the thing about the Contemporary zeitgeist with Klezmer/Cabaret and Gypsy type musics, possibly has something to do with their disconnection to the Blues and American music traditions. I suppose it's in a lot of peoples self interest to do so.

Arthur Prysock? Ray Charles/Betty Carter? MG MG, I think SS1 means what's marketed as 'smooth jazz' but is really instrumental R'n'B with all rough edges shaved away and almost no relationship to blues at all. Rippingtons and their ilk. Most soul jazz could be characterised as instrumental R&B. MG But it has plenty of "B". Indeed it does. Its development paralleled that of R&B (most of the people who developed R&B were jazz musicians) and, when R&B went smooth, so did Soul Jazz. (George Benson knows why) MG I don't think GB's really responsible for the Smooth Jazz genre. He had so much energy in his playing they couldn't stifle it. I think it's the Verve Wes Montgomery sessions, and then even more so - his last A&M ones. The A&M ones really smooth it over. Even Grant Green's Easy - is more lush than the Benson albums, before his (Benson's), total crossover to pop. There is a harder Jazz/Funk energy on some of those Benson albums, but I guess ultimately it is all semantics, in that the Benson Jazz-Funk (Body Talk, Blue Benson etc) is still pointing the way towards the 'generic' Smooth Jazz styles we know now. I've even got a Verve Wynton Kelly album that is all 'arrangements' and no playing. Yeah, I've got that Wynto LP, too Benson was, I agree, behind Wes on smoothing jazz out. But I was referring to his vocals. MG Oh yeah. I see. His vocals definitely are smoooootttthhhh though. A beautiful voice.

Not sure if anyone's linked to this yet, but here it is. http://dlf.tv/2011/david-s-ware/#

Try a sermon. Rev Jasper Williams' 'I fell in love with a prostitute' is very good, often very loud, and very long (56 mins). MG Oh dear. What's the story about MG? Old Testament prophet Hosea, told by his god to marry Gomer, a gentile prostitute, and what happened to them afterwards. A wonderful example of how to use entertainment to get the message over. MG Thanks MG and JSngry

A dashiki or two is usually a good sign for me. Just watching a David S Ware clip.

Arthur Prysock? Ray Charles/Betty Carter? MG MG, I think SS1 means what's marketed as 'smooth jazz' but is really instrumental R'n'B with all rough edges shaved away and almost no relationship to blues at all. Rippingtons and their ilk. Most soul jazz could be characterised as instrumental R&B. MG But it has plenty of "B". Indeed it does. Its development paralleled that of R&B (most of the people who developed R&B were jazz musicians) and, when R&B went smooth, so did Soul Jazz. (George Benson knows why) MG I don't think GB's really responsible for the Smooth Jazz genre. He had so much energy in his playing they couldn't stifle it. I think it's the Verve Wes Montgomery sessions, and then even more so - his last A&M ones. The A&M ones really smooth it over. Even Grant Green's Easy - is more lush than the Benson albums, before his (Benson's), total crossover to pop. There is a harder Jazz/Funk energy on some of those Benson albums, but I guess ultimately it is all semantics, in that the Benson Jazz-Funk (Body Talk, Blue Benson etc) is still pointing the way towards the 'generic' Smooth Jazz styles we know now. I've even got a Verve Wynton Kelly album that is all 'arrangements' and no playing.

I often think of Taylor and Green as two sides of the same coin, playing wise. Although as I think most would agree, there was something uncanny about Peter Green's playing. I saw him only about two years ago. Stood about ten feet from him in a crowded pub gig. He was doing his old FM and John Mayall repertoire. His band kind of carried him through, but he still had a tone and instinct that set him far apart from the average Blues-Rock noodler. He was just more subdued, and, I suppose, not very dynamic. You could kind of feel the vibe of his illness, and how it was creating a barrier between him and his music, and it was hard to tell what the experience of playing was like for Green himself. But I felt it was a rewarding experience to hear him play. I spoke to some older guitar buffs after the gig who were essentially making fun of him - and saying they saw him when he was playing slide and doing his Robert Johnson tribute - and they liked that better. They then told me they had seen Joe Bonamassa the night before -and how they thought that was the best thing since sliced bread - so I guess that belies where their musical consciousness was at.

This thread is re-traumatising me. Got a mono NY Let Em Roll (one of my all time faves) off ebay, fairly cheap. Expected the worst. Played great. Can't believe my luck. Get to Shadow Of Your Smile. By now settled into listening nirvana - waiting for the mellowist track on LP to start....whole song from start to finish is groove damaged (I guess). Oh well. I had great luck getting a NM stereo Got A Good Thing Goin

As far as I know, it's still the big mystery. And the European years are the ones everyone's pinning their hopes on.

"we can rebuild him"

Interesting - he also talks about being booted off a Duke Pearson BN date in favor of Kenny Burrell. Ike Quebec gave him $10 and said "go home kid". So the Hank date came along ten years later ... All this is discussed starting around the 20 minute mark of the video Was Kenny Burrell on a Duke Pearson session? I wondered the same thing. Did a little searching ... only thing I could find was A New Perspective which of course is a Donald Byrd record. Interesting - he says '63, but the video "corrects" it to 1959, around the time of the Duke Pearson trio albums (upon which it does not appear that KB appears). He also mentions Israel Crosby and Arthur Edgehill on the date. A little Googling reveals nothing about these guys on record together Makes me kind of curious ... He goes on to say that Lion and Wolff were brothers - he didn't know why they had two last names and that they were from South Africa ... Maybe it was a session Duke Pearson was arranging for BN? But that would have been post 63-64? Who knows? I got excited and thought I'd overlooked a small group session with Duke Pearson and Kenny Burrell

Interesting - he also talks about being booted off a Duke Pearson BN date in favor of Kenny Burrell. Ike Quebec gave him $10 and said "go home kid". So the Hank date came along ten years later ... All this is discussed starting around the 20 minute mark of the video Was Kenny Burrell on a Duke Pearson session?

No it was Anson, he's the culprit.

Love Mick Taylor's playing. I hunted around a lot the last few years to find some post-Stones stuff on youtube. It's patchy - but there's some good stuff out there. Looks like he became a bit of a journyman, almost like a Jazz player. Walking the earth and playing with pick-up bands - or forming loose, short lived affiliations.

Try a sermon. Rev Jasper Williams' 'I fell in love with a prostitute' is very good, often very loud, and very long (56 mins). MG Oh dear. What's the story about MG?

It would be great to hear his reminiscences about playing Free Jazz in the early Seventies. Very interesting life.

I want out.

But the toy instruments subvert the elitism of Jazz. And help break down the barrier between the musicians and the audience

True, that: it's a description rather than a name, but we Canadians DO have a name, so we don't mind our southern neighbours usurping the general as a specific. You can call us "american" if you wish, it's like being British even if you're Welsh or English or a Scot. But I'm still not sure just what "Americana" is... I understood Americana to be a term for a kind of American Aesthetic that I thought started with films like Paris Texas. But I see in some film discussions people talk about movies like Five Easy Pieces. Later filmmakers like David Lynch and Jim Jarmusch are often mentioned. I recently saw the movie The Last Picture Show which was Americana to me. In music Tom Waits is seen as the king of the aesthetic. But I guess the Sixties country songwriters that had counter-culture cred like Kris Kristofferson and Gram Parsons, The Band etc. seem to belong to the same tradition. In the Visual Arts, I think of someone like Ed Ruscha. Captain Beefheart seems kinda Americana. But from afar, aside from dumbed down pop culture expressions, it is possibly the most significant American cultural/stylistic influence on Artists living outside the country. It's like the exotic of America. The town I grew up in, Melbourne, had a big artistic community that cultivated the Americana feel. Though that has probably lessened over time with the change brought about by the digital age. I was just wondering whether it was something as identifiable to Americans as much as it was to people overseas. Jazz seemed to never have a place in it. Though Blues sorta did.

Don't be afraid, my little friend, it will only hurt for a minute... I don't know what I want.

Depends. A lot of music isn't just music, it's words, too. So if you're listening to a musician and band reciting an incident from history, you can get as caught up in it as listening to a play on the radio, or in a church, listening to a sermon. The difference between African historical recitals and radio plays is that there's no music in the play. There's sometimes music in a sermon. But then, when you listen to a story being told, you're using a different part of your mind from the bit you use to listen to purely instrumental music. I think. MG Isn't that a special thing about the Traditional cultures, the word or the narrative has primacy. So the music the dance etc is one part of the whole cultural expression, because the story/words are still there. Is not part of the beauty of Jazz that it tells the story after the explicit connection to the words have been lost. Sorry to say this, but I think your use of the phrase 'Traditional cultures' is highly patronising. Listen to some albums of sermons by black preachers; self-evidently from the same 'Traditional culture' as the jazz musicians you're thinking about. Function makes form. Many of the African peoples whose music I know use that music as part of an environment in which kids growing up are encouraged (doubtless not invariably successfully) to live in an honest, ethical and upstanding way. So words are essential in that endeavour; just as they are in church. In the west we have no similar notion of music providing such an environment; our notions of music are almost purely aesthetic; even when the music is explicitly entertainment. It's Art for Art's sake or entertainment for entertainment's sake. One consequence of the economic and military domonance of the west is that we tend to think that we're best at everything and that therefore other approaches can't be as beautiful as ours. Wrong. MG Yes I can see it might be perceived that way. I use the term in this context - In Australia, Aboriginal people who have been bought up in a more Westernized environment often use the word Traditional to speak about other Aboriginal people that still live on their Tribal lands - and maintain the full unbroken links to 'traditional' ceremonies and culture. It's a form of respect to honour the way those tribes have kept the culture going amongst great isolation and hardships. Other Aboriginal people from tribes that are bringing back their languages and culture, often seek guidance from the Traditional tribes about these things. Your second paragraph though, pretty much sums up what I was getting at - re- the primacy of the word (or stories/narrative).

Depends. A lot of music isn't just music, it's words, too. So if you're listening to a musician and band reciting an incident from history, you can get as caught up in it as listening to a play on the radio, or in a church, listening to a sermon. The difference between African historical recitals and radio plays is that there's no music in the play. There's sometimes music in a sermon. But then, when you listen to a story being told, you're using a different part of your mind from the bit you use to listen to purely instrumental music. I think. MG Isn't that a special thing about the Traditional cultures, the word or the narrative has primacy. So the music the dance etc is one part of the whole cultural expression, because the story/words are still there. Is not part of the beauty of Jazz that it tells the story after the explicit connection to the words have been lost.

Just seeing the great Hank Mobley photo's on the other thread reminded me to post this great GG and Bobby Watley photo that was recently posted on another board. From 1976.