seeline

Clave, I listened to the disc again last night, and I was able to comfortably sit through it with ease. I guess it just takes getting used to. I guess that I am so used to laid back sambas from Brazil that I wasn't completely ready for something different. I hear you, because my ears (and brain) have gone through that same process. A lot of Brazilian rhythms are quite intense and driving, but they're not too well known up here. (though that's been changing over the past 25+ years.)

How were the CDs packaged, Bev? In a cardboard box, or in a mailing envelope, or...??? I've had all kinds of trouble with packages from BF being stolen. (Or parts of them being stolen.) It got old pretty fast, and I haven't ordered from them in a long time.

This is really delightful - headed up by Mário Adnet. Singers include Mônica Salmaso, Maucha Adnet, Roberta Sá, Alfredo del Penha and Zé Renato; the charts and playing are top-notch. Has a lot of older sambas (from the late 30s-50s) that most of us know via João Gilberto's singing. It's on Adventure Music. More on the project (includes full personnel list) here: http://daniv.blogspot.com/2006/06/samba-me...gie-l-to-r.html And this album is just outstanding!!! I've held off on buying the DVD of the show (also on Biscoito Fino), but now... gotta have it.

Thanks for the heads-up!

Moacir's music is fantastic! Thanks for the heads-up, GA. Edited to add: I'm not sure what you mean by "irregular rhythms," but it sounds like maybe this has something to do with the arrangements on this particular disc? Some recordings of Moacir's music can be found here and here. The 1st cut has a rhythm that hasn't really been picked up (yet) by North Americans - it's a maracatu. Neither piece has what I think of as an "odd" or irregular meter, though they're certainly syncopated. Moacir grew up in northeastern Brazil and used many rhythms from that part of the country in his music. Some of the musical forms have complex, multiple percussion parts that he was distilling and adapting for concert (etc.) performance. You can see and hear two different kinds of maracatu here: The 2nd kind (during the 2nd half of the video) is one of the things Moacir drew on. * Note: I listened to samples on Mark's site, and I think some of what you're hearing is the slight Afro-Cuban twist he brings to these pieces, in the percussion arrangements and some of his piano vamps. (Judging from what I could tell from the samples.)

i have no idea! i think it's crazy.

Dan, you were extremely rude to the OP. That's the bottom line. You could have phrased what you had to say in a non-attacking way. [i'm out; the mods have already had their say on this.]

I'm amazed that this thread is still going. What's so hard about "hey, I see that you've got Carlos Garnett and Ravi Coltrane on your list. I'm wondering why you were putting Dave Koz in with those two?" (etc. etc. etc.) Of course, the opening graphs of the article plus the fact that it's pitched to general-interest readers make it pretty clear that it's *not* meant to be some sort of definitive list for people who love "real" jazz only. Pop critics cover everything but classical by default. Record sales are divided up in the same way, for ease of categorization. Everything that's not classical is pop, and vice versa. Anyone who covers music for a general interest publication (or web site) is going to likely end up reviewing at least *some* shows and CDs that aren't necessarily their personal cup of tea. It's just the way things are. I think those here who've done some writing and publishing on music (or the rest of the arts) are very aware of that, but it bears repeating for those who might not the way non-specialist publications and sites tend to run their "arts" sections. (And likely a lot of other sections, too.) In other words: please cut the OP some slack re. her work for that site. Writing for general-interest audiences is often a "Damnned if you do, damned if you don't" proposition for those doing the writing. Fans of particular genres (not just jazz fans) tend to get angry because said writers aren't giving what they believe to be proper attention to their music of choice. And *if* the writer adds a lot of detail/minutiae that hard-core fans like, then they risk losing general-interest readers after the 1st couple of sentences. I'm all for people who are trying to write well about music, no matter what kind of music it is that they're covering. I've had my own go at it, and found out that it was a lot more complicated than I'd thought.

You might want to check out the situation a bit more carefully, GA. The proposal also included "real," printed books.

I agree completely, Jim. But most BBs are very much "guy" hangouts, and that can make them somewhat difficult to break into. Respect (etc.) should take care of more than 90% of those problems, though.

You can always choose *not* to read something, eh? I think the whole issue of "smooth jazz" is beside the point, really. The issue is about treating other people with respect, even when - no, especially when - you disagree with them.

Oh c'mon Jim, I think you're messing with my posts for no good reason. The point is: there's no reason to act hostile.

I thought I was clear in my previous posts - yes.

I have to say that I thought I'd seen it all when I (along with several other people) was banned from another jazz board for so-called "disrespectful" behavior, but the hostility shown by some posters in this thread is just as bad - if not worse - than that was, and every bit as unwarranted. It really is enough to make me reconsider whether I'll continue to post here - absolutely not meant as a slam at Jim A or any of the mods. I think there's a baseline for civility, especially when the people posting are supposed to be old enough to know better than to attack out of sheer pique (or whatever). It's very unfortunate all around.

Absolutely (what Jim said), and I hope you do at least read the board, if not post. I hope things will get easier here, for all newcomers, but (can I just say it) especially for women who are interested in talking about jazz? Also, there's an "ignore user" function built into the board software. It can be a life-saver!

I agree about it being kind of genre-defying, but I also think a lot of those genre labels are extremely flexible. One of the big things (to my mind) in all of Baden's "afro samba"-type pieces is the way he incorporated Afro-Brazilian religious music and Bahian samba and capoeira music into ... well, I'm hard-pressed to find words to describe what he did, except to say that the synthesis is pretty incredible! But equally, it's the pieces themselves that contain the essence of that, not (to my mind) any single recording. And there are a lot of *great* interpretations of those pieces out there.

What indestructible! said... I just don't see any reason for the reaction she got. It was way out of control, and very (IMO) unfair (as well as rude and disrespectful). it also makes me - as one of the few women posting on this board - feel pretty discouraged about the way women are received here. It's as if there's a big "Boys Only" sign, in some people's minds, at least. I'm all for a more laid-back, friendly vibe, and I think it's doable. But you gotta work at it. And (kind of a separate issue) there certainly are some talented musicians working in the "smooth jazz" arena. I think it's important to acknowledge and respect them - and their musicianship - even when we (you, me, anyone) doesn't especially care for the type of music they're playing. To my eyes, that's what thejackchick3's column was addressing, in part. Trying to find one's path as a writer for a general-interest publication isn't easy.

I like the recording, but I came to it after hearing other kinds of Brazilian music - and recordings - that captured my imagination in the same way this album did yours. So we have different reference points, I'm thinking. For me personally, the compositions themselves are more important than Baden and Vinícius' original recording of them.

There are tons of clips of Bahian-style samba (samba de roda, with dancing) on YouTube - here's one. TTK, I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at re. the Afro Sambas.... but maybe checking out some Bahian samba will help? Rio-style samba is different.

Someone referenced Daniella Thompson's article on the Afro Sambas a bit earlier. I'm gonna second them: http://daniellathompson.com/Texts/Reviews/Sarava_Baden.htm

I'm not much of a devotee of either Baden or Vinícius' recordings (at least, I prefer Baden's instrumental stuff), so ... you're probably asking the wrong person! It's a samba album; I wouldn't be surprised if they had been doing some drinking during the recording session. I think they wanted that big chorus, call-and-response feel because the songs are mostly sambas with touches of candomblé ceremonial music and a very Bahian feel. They even used a lot of trad samba percussion - like knife and plate - that's something of a lost art today. (Although definitely still played in Bahia.) As for Quarteto em Cy's own albums, I don't care for them. Hope this helps clarify a bit!

Have you listened to much samba? That might resolve it for you. (Not kidding; I think one of the things they were going for there is a "roda de samba" - samba jam session - feel, Bahian style....) At any rate, the lead voice/chorus thing is very much a samba thing.

You might not be surprised to know that I'm not a fan of Quarteto em Cy. I think they're OK, but that there have been far better Brazilian vocal groups. As for listening to other interpretations of those songs, I'd encourage you to do so. They're very highly regarded (revered, really) and have been recorded by many, many people. I can't imagine how other interpretations would take away from the original album, in your estimation, at least.

You got the "rowdy..." part right, I think. Both men had drinking problems. As for "good" voices, I guess that's largely a taste thing. I love Cartola (see link to clip above) and he had a very frail voice by the time that show was made. But I've always had problems with both Vinicius and Tom Jobim's singing - also Baden's.

Good Lord, why are you people so hostile?!!! Get a grip!!!