seeline

Maybe you guys could actually read the book instead of trying to trash what you *think* Wald says, sight unseen ....

Perspective deeply appreciated, S. I know some people have it in for Elijah Wald (in general), and most that I've seen (elsewhere, not here) haven't read a single word he's written. Midas, thanks so much for your post!

I guess not...

Just curious - has anyone posting in this thread actually read Wald's new book?

Bev (and all), you might like some other tango nuevo musicians and composers - most of them kept playing for dancers, unlike Piazzolla. Osvaldo Pugliese would be a good start (a contemporary of Piazzolla's). Piazzolla has been presented as being *the* tango nuevo innovator/demigod in the English-language press, but that's only partly true. I think zanonedelpueblo might have some recs, since he lived in Argentina. I haven't really done much listening to tango for the past number of years, and (with the difficulty involved in finding Argentinean import discs), I've been somewhat discouraged about hunting down new material. (European issues excepted. That covers a lot of the expats in France, Juan Jose Mosalini being one of them. He used to record for Label Bleu and has done a couple of outstanding jazz-tango albums that are pretty hard to find. Some of his other albums are very Piazzolla-like, and I'm not crazy about those, although they're beautifully played and recorded.) I think it's really unfortunate that Piazzolla has been lionized at the expense of some of his contemporaries and successors, but hey - as a former reviewer, I can see how and why that happened here in the US.

zanones - yep! An Argentinean acquaintance who's really into jazz compares Piazzolla's early work to what Miles Davis did with albums like Kind of Blue. I'm not a big tango fan, but it seems to me that it's foolish (at best) to go around pronouncing judgments on music from other cultures without having taken the time to do anything more than superficial investigation (based on 2-3 recordings...). I doubt anyone here would be very forgiving if I made a pronouncement on American music - of any kind - based on this kind of impression. (Y'know, like 1 Clifford Brown album, a few songs by Billie Holiday, and that's it.) Just my .02-worth.

There's much more to tango than Piazzolla... which is where I think we've been a bit misled, here in the US. that said, there are (IMO) some Piazzolla imitators who are much better off doing their own stuff - Juan Jose Mosalini, for example. (And, at times, Richard Galliano.) Tango is a very rich musical form, but you have to dig a bit in order to be able to hear that. And the 1st thing you'll likely need to do is listen to some recordings by *the* great tango vocalist, Carlos Gardel. Part of the problem for us N. Americans is that sung tango is really important and most of us (me included) aren't fluent enough in Spanish to be able to really hear what it's about. People who are into dancing tango - here and abroad - really know the music. There are lots of great tango sites in Spanish (natch); French, too. If you don't want to mess with those, look up some sites for people who dance tango. You'll find some good recs right off the bat, though some won't be traditional. (Lots has happened since Piazzolla came up with his "new tango." ) I'd also recommend checking out the Rough Guide tango comps as well as the RG entry on Argentinean tango. So... like the blues, there's a lot more going on than might be apparent at first blush. I think it's extremely unfair to judge an entire genre based solely on one composer's style and recordings. You folks all have access to Google, so you can check it all out for yourselves. You know, saying that in Argentina could get you killed - or, at very least, into really messy physical fights. (I'm not kidding.) it's an urban "folk" style (like rembetika!) that came into being before jazz, and it's got a very complex history. Whether you see/hear that or not is another thing entirely - and up to you, in terms of searching out the music.

Larry, kh isn't the only person who took your post that way... it came across to me as very dismissive. I have to wonder (seriously, *not* meant as a flame) what Piazzolla recordings you've listened to? Because I agree that some of them are pretty snoozy. But not all. As for the "limited" part, well... he composed and performed tangos and milongas. That's pretty much what he was about, so I'm not sure that he deserves blame for what might be limitations of the form itself. Everything is through-composed. I got to hear him live twice. The 1st show, which was with the personnel on Tango Zero Hour, was amazing. They had to play in a donated hall with not-so-hot acoustics, because the hall he'd been booked into cancelled his contract for some reason that escapes me now. The audience was mostly Latin American, and they were very enthusiastic. The whole group played their behinds off. The other time I heard him, he was touring after his final American Clave album was released (very shortly before he had the stroke that ended his career). The acoustics were much worse, and the music just didn't have much kick. It was like they were trying too hard in a way that killed all the spontaneity. And maybe the group was tired (literally). That 1st show really was superb.

I envy you, getting to hear him for the 1st time without all the hype surrounding him and his music. And I bet the Assad Brothers CD will be very appealing to you.

Bev, I'd also recommend trying to scrape up some of his early recordings, made before he left Buenos Aires for France. He got very "arty" after moving to Europe. Those early recordings are what made his reputation as an innovator, and they're good. I don't mean to give the impression that I think his later music was bad - far from it. But I think Kip Hanrahan (owner of American Clave) was interested in "arty" material, and that's mostly what you get on the AC releases. I have very mixed feelings about the live album he made with Gary Burton. At one time, I loved it and played it over and over. Now i don't think I could stand more than 1 track at a time, if that. But hey - I think I'm just not cut out for tango, at least the real hardcore Argentinean kind. The lyrics are pretty nihilistic at times, and the angustia is a bit overwhelming (for my taste). I guess that's why I prefer Brazilian music, on the whole. * One thing I should add: I've heard a couple of recordings (made in France) where Piazzolla accompanied tango singers. I liked them a lot, angst-y vocals and all!

There are so many Piazzolla CDs out there, it's not funny. I listened to him a lot back in the late 80s-early 90s, but lost patience after a while - if only because (maybe) a lot of his material tends to be repetitive. (I know, I know - go ahead, shoot me! ) One that I like a lot is The Rough Dancer and the Cyclical Night, with Paquito D'Rivera joining the ensemble on some tracks. It was written as a dance score and has a very different feel than his other American Clave albums. These discs, reissued by Circular Moves here in the US, are also really good - This is probably my favorite, IMO far above anything that Piazzolla recorded himself - Edited to add: After Piazzolla became popular here in the US, he gave some odd - and, IMO, self-aggrandizing - interviews to American papers. There's one that sticks out in my mind where he claimed that some people who didn't like his music attempted to set him on fire after he left a radio studio in Buenos Aires. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't - let's just say that I have my doubts. Oh my yes. Too much so for my taste! (Also true of many of the album titles Kip Hanrahan came up with.)

I'm really sorry to hear that.... And those reviews are way over the top - it's almost as if the editors want people to write controversial/provocative things just to get their papers sold. (I'm not kidding, especially given the financial difficulties so many newspapers are having.)

It's very interesting (to me) that Spotify is actually a peer-to-peer service - at least, that's what their Wiki page says.) I can see where many people over here would shut off the whole idea, no matter how legal it actually is (or can be) due to the seriously wrong impressions of what peer-to-peer technology is about. (For which I partly blame the RIAA, but also the press and broadcast media.) Most people here assume that p2p = illegal. 'Tain't necessarily so. (Now testing Spotify via a UK proxy server and hoping that it comes to the US and Canada very soon...)

I take it you're joking...

Click on the username and check their channel - they're making comedy videos, period. Though I have to admit that that "commercial" reminds me of a lot of real ones.

I can't vouch for the 40s, but they did the "March Around the Breakfast Table" on the 60s version of the show. I always wondered about this (being a TV kinda kid), - how did anyone know they were really marching?!

I'm just old enough to have thought that radio shows like the Breakfast Club were a novelty, because all I knew was TV. I remember liking Don McNeil's voice and thinking he sounded friendly, but that's about it.

I saw him live once, at the Cornelia Street Cafe in New York--a solo performance. Quite good. Of his leader recordings I've heard, I like the Blue Note trio record the best. I like him very much, too, but also think that some of his US producers tried too hard to make his albums saleable here by restricting him to bossa nova standards. (That's my hunch, not something I know for sure - but it has happened with other Brazilian artists, even Milton.) His more recent Brazilian releases are all on small labels and not easy to find, but (IMO) are very much worth tracking down.

Leila's made other bossa nova albums, which I haven't heard. Several people have told me that they think this is her best in that vein, and I think their opinions are reliable - though definitely opinion, not fact. You know, I'm feeling at a bit of a loss as to making suggestions here, for a couple of reasons. The main one for me personally: the US dollar has dropped so much against Brazilian currency over the past two years that prices for imported CDs and DVDs have skyrocketed. I just don't have the bucks to be able to afford much of anything at such inflated prices. But... Biscoito Fino recently issued a DVD of one of Joyce's live shows. I'm sure (sight unseen) it's great, and would recommend her work to anyone!

I have a soft spot for "Drume Negrita" as a song, period. And that arrangement + her reading of the lyrics is - for me personally - just about the best I've ever heard. (That said, there are other versions I like just as much, but for different reasons.)

Hey, I only saw this thread for the 1st time today, because you bumped it... Not sure where I ran across her work (on a Spanish-language music blog, i think), but she's got other stuff (mostly comps, much more pop-oriented) that's available on Emusic. I wonder if she came to the US so she could concentrate on jazz specifically? Her version of Drume Negrita is (IMO) really beautiful. (Link to post, with streaming audio.) It's from her album Pais Maravilla. . thanks muchly for the personnel list and tour schedule. Philly's a bit of a haul for me, but I'd like to get down there soon... might be good to plan that around her gig.

thanks for this, kh! I love her work - especially now that she's moved to the US and is able to focus on jazz. I have a recording of her version of "Drume Negrita" on my blog (see link in my sig). Lots of good stuff on her MySpace page, too. * Distancia is on Emusic.com, but there's no personnel info. for some reason. (?) Am downloading it now.

Thanks muchly for the heads-up, Bev!

As Dan said, libraries take books out of circulation and sell them as "discards." Usually, the books are extra copies, or else the library sees that nobody has checked an item out for a long time - they put the discarded books on sale to the public for a very low price (in the US, usually .25 for paperbacks and .50-1.00 per hardback) and the money is used for buying new books. I would imagine that someone bought the book and brought it to the US.

Is that supposed to make sense? "transliteration" is (I think) what Allen meant - he's right about this.