Steve Reynolds

one more day and the *great* Misha Mengelberg kicks of the U.S. Tour of the vaunted ICP @ Tonic on 3/21. with the one and only Han Bennink on drums, the sublime Michael Moore on reeds and the controlled chatic virtuosity of one Wolter Wierbos on trombone not minimizing the contributions that will come from Tristan Honsinger on cello, Mary Oliver on violin, Ernst Glerum on bass, Thomas Heberer on trumpet. The two saxophonists Ab Baars and Tobius Delius round out this incredible band.

I'll try to dig up a few very old comments that I've made over the years nice to know that people are interested in the great bassist/bandleader/composer

plus we could do a whole thread on the John Lindberg black saints start with the great "Give and Take" - with George Lewis and Barry Altschul - from 1983 the later ones are all fine - with some like Resurrection of a Dormant Soul, Quartet Afterstorm and Bounce maybe being ona slightly higher level than the others they feature great players from various backgrounds - from Albery Mangelsdorff to Ed Thigpen to Dave Douglas and Larry Ochs

some of my favorites that might not have been mentioned: Billy Bang: Valve #10 - with a subdued and wonderful performance by Frank Lowe - as well as a sublime rhythm section of Sirone and the *great* Denis Charles Andrew Hill: Shades - Clifford Jordan at the top of his game. Hill more in the pocket than on things like Strange Serenade. Riley and Reid are perfect together swinging Hill's music in a more traditional way than normal. Muhal Richard Abrams: Hearinga Suite - great big band with Cyrille in the trap drum seat. All colours - perfect length (about 40 minutes) has this listener pining for more. David Murray: Bodies and Soul - from 1993 - ripping quartet with rashied ali more aggressive and powerful than many of Murray's drummer's performance within his quartets. Sonelius Smith roars from the piano chair. Julius Hemphill: Flat Out Jump Suite - seemingly dense and obtuse - this reveals itself to be a classic example of Hemphill's art - within a fairly standard quartet's instrumentation - outside of Wadud's cello in place of the traditionla bass. And the great cellists takes this music to places before unseen.

Travelling Somewhere is pretty muddy as well- the piano is undermiked and maybe out of tune - the performances are pretty damn fantastic, fwiw

anyone know the instrumentation/musicians on the above Hill recording?

all the greats? some of them - but nowhere near all - and are all the greats dead? lordy lordy

we get lotsa comments from the gallery of those hipper than thou, cooler than shit , who just don't know shit I tend to the abstract from time to time, but one can understand the words tell me Rowe/Beins live is a marketing scam fools unite - and co-sign each other's shit where is Chris Kelsey when we need him most?

this is not the sort of thing that I spend much of my time listening to these days - I have been a Joe Maneri enthusiast for quite some time - and seeing and hearing him live (about 5-6 times, I think) is a very special and different experience - and it isn't the same thing for new music, I gravitate more towards things by Rowe or that type of thing doesn't mean there isn't room in my head for a romantic like Fred

agree with all, my favorite Hutcherson session - and whenever you write something, Larry, I'm reading and I'm listening - have enjoyed your thoughts on music immensely over the years will be getting myself of the newest remaster sometime soon

some thoughts from me - recently posted on another board....enjoy - if you like Recorded 12/12/04 @ Johnson State College, Vermont On eremite records 2 discs – the first one about 44 minutes one continuous performance, the second is longer – but broken down into three tracks Fred Anderson: tenor saxophone William Parker: bass Hamid Drake: drums I think Fred is a romantic, I think Fred is about the sound, I think he is about a search for a few of those moments. Maybe due to this, much of what comes out of his horn sounds pretty damn sweet – but where is it going, and what is the reason for it? Is it all good - or is it just a search with little in the search? have I heard this before? Parker is playing in a basically straight walking groove based way – a way that some are very familiar with – yes there are inflections here and there – but it is about support – and maybe listening – or maybe just playing – Hamid drives it sounds great – sounds like Hamid – is there a purpose to this – other than to reach those moments of potential epiphany?/ It is music of a language that is , by now well worn – are they worn out? Sometimes yes – sometimes no – they sound *great* What am I feeling? Not sure if it is me today – or maybe there isn’t a reason for this on a record – maybe it is only to see live – then again, I can listen to Hamid any time – and if I’m right – maybe I am not today – I am very aware of how much I can change day to day – or hour to hour – I am free of the shit that used to control how I feel.. well this is the first disc - I think I heard some of those moments - but I'm not really sure - didn't I hear more on the Velvet disc with Kowald and Drake from a few years back? wasn't there more of an urgency to it all? or is it me? Well – I will listen to the second disc maybe tomorrow- and then go back to the first – I wonder if it is me….. the next day.... part of it is me, for sure, part of it is , when I am centered, I am not jaded, I am not intolerant – I am able to accept the good and the bad – and the stuff that is in between – and maybe find the beauty despite the longuers that might hinder some of this music – especially when it is played by guys that really do have a somewhat limited palette – And Fred has always been a hero – he is one of my guys – and he still is….. the second disc (save for the middle track – whose inclusion is beyond questionable)is stronger – Fred is a stylist – at this point in his playing life, he is really about the sound – and a feeling – the melodies invented or reused – his phrases and lines (stock or not) are familiar and yet they sometimes are still somewhat elusive – but as the night wore on (if this is in the order they played), the team builds a fire… Parker’s arco portion about half way through the first track is ok – somehow the audience always reacts so strongly when William goes through this exercise – in this case, it seemed a bit planned and it seemed like an exercise but then the groove starts to take flight - one really never knows when it actually is gonna click , when it is gonna go – maybe it is still the one mysterious aspect of what the two of them do - with Fred out – the King and the Man at the kit go places – it is at once of a time – and beyond it – the last half of the 37 minute piece is worth the record – as is the final half of the last 14 minute track – this is what it is, baby – beyond time – romantics really all of them – and Hamid’s *sound* - the snare goes on – the hi-hat sets the groove – and the rest falls into place – as relaxed as a drummer can be while driving inexorably to the heart of the groove – accents all in the right places – but never *exactly* where even those of us intimate with his playing completely expect them to be – almost out of his hands….even when the groove is almost pure funk it eventually fades into the loose groove with the hi-hat driving the music into the night – as I am driving to see some friends at the diner – four of us, me, my friends Andy, Darryl and Sara – they don’t know what I hear – they don’t understand the music, but we understand each other – and maybe I was better because of this – no – I am better because of people like that – and I am better enough these days to be able to write about music that has always had a emotional effect on me. Where worlds collide – is it free – not free jazz anymore – not avant-garde anymore – it really is more like tradition of jazz without the themes – that sound of the tenor – sometimes nothing more than that – and maybe that’s ok – how many of his CD’s to own? At least a few if one still likes jazz – if one just really wants to hear a great tenor sound with the boys in the back – who are really are in the front – have been for while out front – and what still amazes is that some think this is hard music – for me, it might be easy – easy and smooth for the most part – but a beautiful example of three men doing what they do – maybe just for the love of the sound – and the love of the groove was December 12th last - year - was a bit on a cloud when I found out about the show last November - called Gary - tried to see if I could make the trak - had no car, had no money - I have a little of that today - next time (hopefully there will be a next time) maybe I bring Darryl to see the boys right now, he's committed to 1/24/06 to see William's Quintet with Hamid at the kit and Darryl is a drumemr who has heard Hamid from me - and said that this guy is like nothing in this world that he has ever heard when it comes to the kit It's Always a Pleasure

maybe there might be some references to other things - but this is what I wrote last November 24th: shock and awe for Ulrich what follows will be seen in some quarters as hyperbole or shilling for the guy who sent me the damn thing - please - spare me listen to the recording - and it's easy - it's only 26 minutes of music and about a minute of crowd noise in front and behind the music I know - most of you naysayers or ones who think you would have NO chance of likeing this - because you know there is no melody, there is no time, there are sounds that are foreign to your ears they are foreign to my ears as well they are also the most captivating and seductive sounds one could ever wish to hear - albeit noisy, churning, unmoving, moving, blessed sounds - sounds that are maybe not sounds - but are voices of the souls that maybe the both of them don't think they have recorded live in Berlin on May 13th by the *great* Christoph Amann (the Peter Pfister of this sort of thing) ErstLive 001 - produced by Jon Abbey I think this is the shortest running CD in my pile - slighly shorted than Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" someday, they will possibly be written or spoken about in similar fashions - we already know the story about the classic Ayler recording - the engineers think they are warming up - so the session is recorded in mono - someone also said like screaming FUCK in St. Patrick's Cathedral - well all I know is that I have been listening to Keith Rowe for a few years now - one artsist I never really stopped listening to when I wasn't doin' too good - and he was maybe one of the only people I was still hearing - but I'm concerned that like Ayler (although with 40 years gone - we now all agree it is/was jazz) that so many who could hear Keith Rowe won't specifically because he is not playing jazz - and as far as we know (unless Brian has found out differently) he never has - but if his music can reach me - one from really only a jazz (and little rock) background - with strong interests in the improvisational end of things - this music deserves to reach more than the ones who already know I love the questions asking what "eai" is - well here is something that isn't anything like most anything I ever heard him create - or is is the mysterious (to me) Mr. Beins? no - Burkhard is wonderful (hear his incredible duo recording with Andrea Neumann(spelling) Lidingo - but I don't even pretend to knwo who is what or who is where or how it is - who cares - not the point - listen but here is a horse of a different proverbial garage - this is miracle stuff- is anyone sure he didn't record the shortwave and then time what he was creating to coincide with it (joking, of course) - but it also makes me think there is a god - when I'm not so sure - certainly more sure than Jon & Brian....an news report on Canadian radio about potential withdrawel of troops!?!? and how about the portion from about 20 minutes on before the incredible fade - in and out - out and in - lordy lordy - grit - I hear it - quiet intensity - and after what happened to the tune - those who know this recording or saw the show live knew when they heard it - I've listened about 6 times through (and a few minutes ago on the headphones - as I had to after playing the Ivo loud all the way through - she begged me to relent) - and I knew it the first time I heard it - when the walls come tumbling down - the deconstruction of the world who says this music doesn't have horn charts? I mentioned that Joost Buis' "Astronotes" might be my record of the year (albeit in a year when I havn't heard more than a handfull of new recordings) but I don't know what I was thinking....this is the record of the decade until something else comes along that is inspired by a miracle - or simply the work of a genius at the height of his awesome powers Son of a Preacher Man, baby

if you do, these are what I recommend on erstwhile records - Duos for Doris Keith Rowe and John Tilbury - 2 CD set - quite stunning, plus one get's the piano to anchor them to reality also on erstwhile - Schnee Christoff Kurzmann & Burkhard Stangl - a personal favorite - and there is quite a bit of acoustic guitar that works well with the electronics employed and then maybe the most radical and intense disc - Keith Rowe w/Burkhard Beins - erstlive005 - only about 27 minutes long - but beyond words - I'll dig up my initial thoughts that I posted on this recrding when it was released about one year ago there are many more - and there are many who have investigated these areas of music more than I have

And another thing…or two…. Did anyone say that Allen or anyone else would like this stuff? AMM or the more recent strains of the music sometimes known as “eai”? Not at all I don’t expect anyone to like it – I didn’t expect to like it – initially I didn’t like it – it is very abstract and maybe that is why many people have very different opinions about it – I have friends who come from similar places in music listening experience as I do – who love it – and some who hate it – and some are ambivalent to it – and some will not listen to it… To each his own – from my personal experience, it has been very rewarding to discover some other type of music that is as or more rewarding than the jazz that I have been passionately listening to for quite a while. Some people I know who like it have no interest in jazz, or did, but now don’t and some who never even liked jazz in the first place – so knows what anyone will think about it. The bottom line for me is that the rewards have been well worth it – and I am not the only

amazing - someone trying to sway someone into *not* investiagting something that might be worthwhile - because they think it's pretensious crap If Allen doesn't want to buy it, he won't buy it if he doesn't like it, he will say he doesn't like it fwiw - if he doesn't - this stuff is easily resold at costs very close to whatever he might pay for it - there is a demand for this stuff - as very few of the people who do buy it - sell it - because they like it not easy to find any of this stuff in any used CD bins if you are interested, there is much discussion about this kind of music at other sites - but as it isn't jazz, maybe here isn't a good place for it. lordy lordy - let's not take risks in listening - nice attitude

AMM is one of the sources/inspiration for the eai sort of thing - sure Prevost grew up a jazz drummer - so there was always that tension between the 3 different parts (in the last trio configuration of the band (Rowe/Tilbury/Prevost) - so, no, it isn't eai music - it wasn't until the very end when Rowe stopped participating in the band (and to my mind, there is no AMM without Rowe) fwiw, the Rowe recorded stuff I've heard from the past 5 years or so outside the world of AMM is probably, as a whole, as inspired as any musical artist that I follow - probably moreso.

this is a nice link for a little historical oral commentary about the band known as AMM: http://www.matchlessrecordings.com/amm_set.html go to the review section for some comments from the press over the years - quite entertaining, I think for me - the place I started was Live in Allentown (1994) and The Nameless Uncarved Block (1990). Both of these have a standard piano and standard drum kit - but it sure isn't jazz - and it is what it is over time, Allentown became one of the prized items in my musical world - and it (along with others that followed in the new world of improvisation) changed the way I can listen to music.

thanks for the post, Allen but the "methodologies" that I am pointing to are not the ones that you are referencing, I don't think really two strains of new improvised music: the first - an older form - has basis in the free jazz tradition - that is the first generation of european free improvisors - guys like John Stevens, Derek Bailey, Peter Brotzmann, Evan Parker, Barry Guy, Paul Rutherford, Alexander von Schlippenbach, Paul Lovens, etc. some of these musicians speak in a language that is or is close to jazz - some of them do sometimes - some of them veer off into musical language that is really not that much about the notes - and that has much less to do about scales and notes than even the most "out" 1960's free jazz stuff the seond is the world of what is sometimes known as "eai" or "electo-acoustic improvisation" - with Keith Rowe and AMM being seen by many as the progenitors of this sort of thing - major practitioners of this music are people like Gunter Muller, Toshi Nakamura, Axel Dorner, Burkhard Stangl, Greg Kelley, Jason Lescaleet, Kevin Drumm, Sean Meehan, Thomas Lehn, Marcus Schmickler - and many others - this music (some would argue that point) has nothing to do with much that precedes it in a musical way when it comes to melody, rhythm or harmony - most of these elements might initially seem missing from this music, as will the sound of anything resembleing a traditional instrumental voice - even if it might be a trumpet or guitar

<Same with a lot of contemporary musicians, who seem to think that mere experimentation with form is enough to justify any music thus produced (especially when accompanied by a good philosophic rationale)> First off: which contemporary musicians? Apparently Cline is one of them I already know what you think of David Murray – but he’s only been around for 30 years – so for many of us, he’s almost an elder – that you don’t like how he plays – and others don’t – I have never had a problem with that – there is room for the *great* Warne Marsh and Murray. Thye ain’t playin’ the tunes the same way – but who says they intend to? I suppose Peter Brotzmann has been a fraud for almost 40 years – then again, I might be assuming something – that you ever took anything about him serious enough to ever listen to him – maybe you might want to just admit that you aren’t interested in that sort of thing – but then again, I’m sure you’ve never heard the mighty Tentet – a lot stuff goin’ on with that crew – and none of it has anything to do with jivin’ – even from a “formalist’ point of view. See the big unit that Peter has been involved with for almost the past 10 years is one those bands that plays music that has no categorization. What can happen in that band puts holes in what the naysayers say about “out” music that they can’t get with – fact is, if one can get past a bit of skronk and holler – and a little energy (well – actually the energy and power that can be generated is like nothing in the musical world) and some of us welcome a little bit of wailing – didn’t Bird wail? But the structure and execution of their music – and in this case, it isn’t free music – or wasn’t when I saw them – it is compositional music with something else – guys who can play it – and guys who can also play beyond the norm. Seems to me that for virtually forever in the jazz world, there are many who do not want ot recognize the guys who have go somewhere else – the assumption has always been that they had no choice – that they couldn’t hang with the real dudes Biggest lie in jazz – always has been – it’s better for most who open up – but for some – it continues to give lie to the fact that the greatest jazz is way behind us Listen to the now – still may be the future And actually it is band that takes all pre-conceived and cemented ideas and opinions away from the ‘formalists’ When I saw them live the last time, it was the greatest performance of any band, any band that I had even seen – from even the level of pure execution and that means in a traditional way – every player was on – and they did 2 40 minute sets – pure, clear – nothing filled in, pure sonic genius Trees Have Roots in the Earth

from someone who has only a cursory listening history with Cline - but as one who is a big fan of Wilco... I love the new live set - whether it is Cline or Tweedy (or both) and whover is playing, I find the forays into sound invigorating and pretty damn well integrated into the band's sound. as most of you also know, I am a enthusiast for free music, whether it be jazz or other newish elctrical sorts of things - so my two cents on the Wilco thing for rigidity in listening to creative music is death - some people just want ot judge based on some standards of musicianship which have beenm by now, transcended by new methodologies that in many cases are only marginally connected to tradititional music of any sort. see Keith Rowe, baby Newfoundland, baby

the 2 Lindberg CD's with Smith *tower* over the first Golden Quartet CD then again, they are John Lindberg led bands - what would one expect? Lindberg remains maybe one of the top 2 or 3 most undervalued composer, bandleader, improvisor, bassit in the history of this music it really is incredible that he is not more acclaimed after all these years

I love reaing your posts, Larry I especially like where the discussion was going in the sense of where I read it - what to do with the drummer - for me - now some of the music doesn't need it anymore - after years of post-Coltrane jazz by some great players, sometimes real energy and intensity now comes from the quietest of thinsg - and the smallest detail - whether it be in jazz (mostly freeish improvisation) or in non-jazz based improvisation maybe I am thinking this today having just listened for the first time to the first CD 1 of Cloud - by Rowe, Fennesz, Arbachi and Nakamura these people don't come from this tradition - but the sounds they make work with this listener who does come from that place then again, it took me a while to hear what Rowe was doing with AMM - or what AMM was doing - taught me a new way to listen - and when I did, it changed everything for me

I was curious about the sound of the live recordings by the band with Boz, Collins and Wallace I had the original Earthbound LP - and the sound was awful fwiw - I like the Larks Tongue/Starless/Red incarnation(s) far more than the earlier or later line-ups. I love "The Breat Deceiver) 4 CD box from 73-74 I saw them live in 1981 with Belew, Levin and Bruford - it was decent - but lacking the power and the glory of the mid-70's band - and they only did two tunes from the glory days - Larks Tongue - part 2 and Red and they played Larks Tongue Part 2 - twice the second time as an encore not hearing Fracture in place of it was big letdown at the time - I mean - Fracture is pretty much what the best Crimso was all about - the power and the glory

yeah - I was thinking of the one with the grey cover - forget the name- maybe recorded around 1991

I love Paul Bley’s playing. In fact, the opposite of what was said somewhere on this thread is true for most people I know who like Bley. The idea of what he does is fine – melodically based freeish playing that has some compositional elements sometimes. His career is very highly documented – and one would go pretty muich insane to try hear it all if so inclined. Sometimes it almost seems like he needs or wants to document everything. What I think is: The actual immersion in his music is much more rewarding thatn the idea of what he does. He is one of the great pianists in jazz – has been for a long time. His later recordings are much more rewarding than the earlier formative stuff (pre-1970) as his playing has become completely personal and his own – with no other pianist in music that he sounds even remotely like. I think only Cecil Taylor is as much an iconoclast as Bley. Also modern recording techniques give his playing even greater depth – we get to hear everything (hear the ECM Not Two Not One with Peacock and Motian – is there is a better and more sympathetic piano trio for the last 30 years – not to these ears And there are many excellent examples of Bley with Haden and Motian as well – the Montreal Tapes (from 1989) is a stunner as the wonderful Etudes on Soul Note from a year or so later. Bley went from an interesting outward leaning pianist in the 60’s to one of the great voices in music over the last 20-30 years.