Alexander Hawkins Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Having kindly been nominated by Pryan to select AOTW for May 25-31, I'd like to choose the quintet portion of the Massey Hall concert. This is a special 50th anniversary choice; the gig was in 1953! It's painful having to choose, in fact(!), so the fact that the date has some significance makes it slightly easier! I think it'll be nice to discuss what is a pretty seminal event in the music. Plus, if ever there was a doubt that we might overlook 'those who came before' (i.e. pre- late 50s), let's dispel it!!! Furthermore, we might toss around ideas as to what constitutes genius, and who comes in the category, but I'd stick my neck out and say that anywhere between 1 and 5 of the band on show on that night fit the bill! I'm afraid I'm not sure I'm up to posting the customary image of the album, so if someone else would be kind enough..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Good choice. Happens to be the only Byrd and/or Diz disc I own ( ). I've got a ton of respect for both of them (and hold them both in very high reguard), but I just don't have the ears for very much 50's or 40's jazz. I know, I know - it's my loss. And I am starting to get some more late 50's material, slowly. Anyway, I'm glad I'll be able to give this one a spin, and chime in with my thoughts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted May 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 couw - thanks for posting the image! I'd like to pretend that my precision timing was deliberate, but.. RT - Good choice. Happens to be the only Byrd and/or Diz disc I own ( ). Let's face it - there are worse ones to own! Seriously, though, apologies in advance if I stoke an addiction to the stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfricaBrass Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 (edited) Red, I'm glad you were nominated. I've had this album for years but I've never really given it the attention it deserves. This will be a fine album of the week. :rsmile: Edited May 14, 2003 by AfricaBrass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 A perfect example of why Cool, Hard Bop, and their various offshoots were at once imperitave social evolutions and a step backwards musically. What you hear on Massey Hall is not "Bebop". Or maybe it is. Either way, there is so much happening in this music at all levels (intellectual, emotional, technical, whatever) that it is beyond categorization as anything other than individual and collective genius. The music as a whole had to change because, simply put, only a handful of people in the history of the world have had the genius to operate at this level, and as inspirational as genus is, it ain't going to take the world by storm in its pure form. There just ain't that big a market. At the end of the day, genius, TRUE all-encompassing genius, IS the real deal, with any/everything else being perhaps more comfortable, more familiar, more easily confronted, and therefore seemingly more "enjoyable", but to ignore the very real qualities of genius and try to somehow work around them as if they are the downtown home office that we, the attendants at various branch offices in the suburbs will never really need to know all that much about, much less ever visit or, God forbid, WORK at, is at the root of the modern malady of comfort without conscience. Yes, Virginia, some people really CAN make music (and other things) that is/are virtuostic in the extreme AND is full of imagination and soul. But it takes a rare combination of intensive labor and intense imagination to do this. It takes a LOT of time and a LOT of courage, to say nothing of the luck of the genetic draw. Those of us who through no fault of our own, as well as a few faultsthat ARE our own, who fail to reach this pinacle of genius (and really, that's mostly all of us), need not feel like failures, or even console ourselves with the resignged acceptance of being "average". We are who we are. But dammit - there IS such a thing as genius, as endeavors that are of an absolutely unsurpassable level of perfection, and we sure as hell best acknowledge that if we expect to lead anything even remotely resembling an honest life. This is not an Album Of The Week - this is an Album Of Eternal Truth And Beauty and all that other artspeak crap. More to the point, this is music that is, quite literally, As Good As It (or anything else) Gets, or CAN Get. Period. Personal taste and/or preference doesn't enter into it, not at this level. Minmize that fact at your own peril! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Tomorrow is the 50th anniversary of the performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 Is a 24-bit remaster of this album available? I've only seen the older cd version, which I've been told doesn't have the greatest sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 (edited) There is an US K2 remastered version (20Bit), that is said to sound much better than the original OJC release. http://www.fantasyjazz.com/catalog/parker_c_cat.html There is a german remastered CD (20 or 24Bit, who cares what ZYX uses? ) which is said to sound awful. But I suppose you already know to avoid those releases. As the music is 50 years old, we are also likely to see a Definitive CD very soon Edited May 15, 2003 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 As Claude points out there is a K2 US version, which does sound much better but don't expect pristine sound. K2 20 Bit or not there is only so much they could do with the tapes. Also, it is still the version with Mingus overdubbing his playing just like the older CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 I don't remember how long this album is, but they could have tried to put the non-overdubbed tracks (which are only available in the Complete Debut Recordings box) on the new CD together with the "official" version. This would have convinced me to upgrade my OJC CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryan Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 Sorry if this is common knowledge already, but can anyone tell me the reason why Mingus had to overdub in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tapscott Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 Apparently Mingus' bass was almost inaudible on the recording. BTW, the tapes were given to Mingus in lieu of $$$$ for playing that night. Massey Hall was only a quarter full and the promoters ran out of money before the musicians were paid in full. Originally Mingus wanted to destroy the tapes immediately because the recording wasn't great and the bass couldn't be heard. Thankfully, he held on to them, overdubbed the bass lines again, and released them on his own label a year later. And we know the rest of the story. I'm sure Massey Hall will be sold out tonight for the 50th Anniversary Concert - Roy Hargrove, Kenny Garrett, Herbie Hancock, Dave Holland, Roy Haynes, and making a special appearance, Max Roach. Wish I could be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryan Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 Thanks John, I figured as much regarding the inaudibility of the bass. However, I didn't know the story about the tapes for cash deal. Very interesting. Sure glad Mingus didn't destroy those tapes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 "Legend" has it that Norman Granz was interested in releasing the Massey Hall tapes and asked Mingus to name his price. When Mingus asked for $1,000,000, Granz demurred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryan Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 "Legend" has it that Norman Granz was interested in releasing the Massey Hall tapes and asked Mingus to name his price. When Mingus asked for $1,000,000, Granz demurred. It never hurts to ask, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 16, 2003 Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 Those who are hardcore AOTW junkies might want to consider an AOTW supplement next week - the Bud Powell trio set recorded at the same concert. Marvellous stuff, and available to vinylheads and old-but-not-too-old fans as Prestige 24024 - THE GREATEST JAZZ CONCERT EVER, where it (and some later pieces w/George Duvivier & Art Taylor) is coupled with The Quintet's set. All that's missing is Max's "Drum Conversation" and the big band set that opened the night, the latter not recorded to my knowledge. Why Fantasy doesn't just go ahead and put the whole shebang into one package and give it Dee-Lux Remastering and that two-fer title (and even use the same cover art, pretty cool if you ask me) is a question worth asking. Or have they? I'm still digging the twofer, Luddite that I tend to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted May 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 I wish I had the Powell set! I would definitely have nominated in conjunction with the quintet bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 (edited) The Powell material is also on the Mingus 'Complete Debut Recordings' CD set - and very nicely presented, as are the quintet tracks. I'll try to give the Vogue 'Quintet of the Year' LP a spin today in memory of this event, and maybe delve also into the Hayden book. Interesting picture in the book with Mingus playing the piano after the concert, apparently waiting for payment whilst they were counting the dosh .... potentially menacing if you were the fan counting the proceeds and discovered there was a big shortfall, then having to tell Mingus that this is the case to his face. I bet there weren't many takers for that 'honour' ! It wil be interesting to compare the overdub versions on the Vogue LP with the 'clean' versions on the Debut set ! Edited May 17, 2003 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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