One in five Germans wants the Berlin Wall back

[ghost of miles]

Yikes!

One in Five Germans Wants the Berlin Wall Back

By Alexandra Hudson

BERLIN (Reuters) - Fourteen years and a trillion euros after reunification one in five Germans would like to see the barrier that split the country during the Cold War put back, a survey found Wednesday.

A poll by the Forsa institute found a quarter of western Germans wishing the 15 million east Germans were cut off again by the Berlin Wall, living in a different state, while 12 percent of eastern Germans wanted out of the united Germany.

Many westerners said they were disgruntled because they have had to foot the bill for reunification -- 24 percent said they had suffered financially as a result.

In the formerly communist east, which has twice the unemployment as in the west and where wages are still below western levels, one-third said they were no better off financially because of unification and the end of communism.

The lingering divisions have erupted in recent months as Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's government attempts to reduce unemployment and welfare benefits, touching a nerve in the east.

Westerners are sometimes disparaged as arrogant know-it-all "Wessies" while easterners are at times referred to as 'Jammer Ossies' (whinging easterners) in the west.

The Forsa survey, based on interviews with 1,002 easterners and 1,005 westerners, highlighted a feeling in the west that easterners are ungrateful for the financial support they have received since 1990 and they should do more to help themselves.

Thirty-seven percent of west Germans said the 80 billion euros ($96.28 billion) the government pumps into the east each year was too much. But almost a third of east Germans thought it too little, Forsa said.

Two top diplomats recently said they were alarmed at the poisoned atmosphere. Former West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher and former East German Foreign Minister Markus Meckel said they feared the east-west gap was growing.

[BruceH]

Maybe they should try building a wall that seperates north and south. Hey, look what it did for Korea!

[sheldonm]

Yikes!

One in Five Germans Wants the Berlin Wall Back

By Alexandra Hudson

BERLIN (Reuters) - Fourteen years and a trillion euros after reunification one in five Germans would like to see the barrier that split the country during the Cold War put back, a survey found Wednesday.

A poll by the Forsa institute found a quarter of western Germans wishing the 15 million east Germans were cut off again by the Berlin Wall, living in a different state, while 12 percent of eastern Germans wanted out of the united Germany.

Many westerners said they were disgruntled because they have had to foot the bill for reunification -- 24 percent said they had suffered financially as a result.

In the formerly communist east, which has twice the unemployment as in the west and where wages are still below western levels, one-third said they were no better off financially because of unification and the end of communism.

The lingering divisions have erupted in recent months as Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's government attempts to reduce unemployment and welfare benefits, touching a nerve in the east.

Westerners are sometimes disparaged as arrogant know-it-all "Wessies" while easterners are at times referred to as 'Jammer Ossies' (whinging easterners) in the west.

The Forsa survey, based on interviews with 1,002 easterners and 1,005 westerners, highlighted a feeling in the west that easterners are ungrateful for the financial support they have received since 1990 and they should do more to help themselves.

Thirty-seven percent of west Germans said the 80 billion euros ($96.28 billion) the government pumps into the east each year was too much. But almost a third of east Germans thought it too little, Forsa said.

Two top diplomats recently said they were alarmed at the poisoned atmosphere. Former West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher and former East German Foreign Minister Markus Meckel said they feared the east-west gap was growing.

I have a small chunk of it, as I was there not long after the wall began coming down. I will be glad to give it back if they need it .

Mark

[A Lark Ascending]

I'm sure if they ring Roger Waters...

[Jim Alfredson]

So their complaint is that it cost them a lot of money to take it down? Ok... just how much do they think it'll cost to put it back up and who do they think is going to foot that bill?

[7/4]

So their complaint is that it cost them a lot of money to take it down? Ok... just how much do they think it'll cost to put it back up and who do they think is going to foot that bill?

No, no, no....

Many westerners said they were disgruntled because they have had to foot the bill for reunification -- 24 percent said they had suffered financially as a result.

They're unhappy because East Germany was poor and reuniting the country sucked money out of West Germany.

A new wall couldn't cost that much...maybe this time they could go with something a bit more economical like a chain link fence.

[catesta]

they feared the east-west gap was growing.

Reminds me of the whole Notorious B.I.G. vs. Tupac thing.

[ejp626]

The equivalent in N. American terms would be if the U.S. decided to dismantle all its barbed wire fence along the US-Mexico border, invited Mexicans to become part of the U.S. and then guaranteed to bring their standard of living up (maybe not quite to US standards but much higher than they had been previously). Probably more than 25% of Americans would be opposed to such a move. (Or maybe we will just keep it to Southern California, Texas, New Mexico and all the other territory unified under the Mexican flag many moons ago.)

[catesta]

Probably more than 25% of Americans would be opposed to such a move.

No doubt.

[JSngry]

Man, ain't it a drag that the cost of eliminating Communism and reuniting your country is some culture shock and the need to spend some bucks.

BUMMER!

[tjobbe]

folks,

might sound funny, but there are lot of different reasons for this poll result, just naming few...

- the polititians created the "phrase" in 1990 that within the re-united germany, no-one would suffer from this and the cost will pay-off by itself... which was - let me say it this way- not quite the truth...

- when looking at areas in western germany, there are regions that have a similar un-employment rate, similar infrastructure problems but they pay more or less for the transfer money either.

So if you ask them about their feeling (even politians of all parties) .. they also complain about it.

- there has been a lot of money burried in senseless investments in east germany which is now missed everywhere....

- and its now hip to wish back the wall, as nobody asked -similar like the changes for EU constitution- what people want, as everywhelse in europe the people can express by vote what they think about the new common constitution, so this is - as I believe- just a way to express a lack of basic democracy (which is definetly missing with the german constitution which does not know any direct participation of the german people beside regular elections) EDIT: which was mainly a post-wwII decision not to do implement this direct involvement as it has created a huge mess within Weimar in pre Nazi-Area...

... and there might be more .... (History lesson finished )

Cheers, Tjobbe

Edited September 8, 2004 by tjobbe

[neveronfriday]

Man, ain't it a drag that the cost of eliminating Communism and reuniting your country is some culture shock and the need to spend some bucks.

BUMMER!

Don't get me wrong - I, for one, don't want the wall back.

But, every German has been looking at a reduced paycheck now for over (!) 10 years. Every single month since then an amount has been deducted for the cost of reunification.

Add to this the budget cuts, wage raises which equal zero for many professions, a substantial increase in gas and electricity prices, "ecological" taxes, and and and ... you get the picture.

Just for this post I quickly had a look at my paycheck, and if you remove inflation from the calculation, today I earn considerably less (!!) than 10 (!!) years ago whereas the requirements (working hours etc.) have risen sharply in the same time period.

People have to get used to losing money in a process of restructuring our welfare state. It's not easy, and I can understand that people are looking for scapegoats. It has happened in every other European state which has attempted massive reforms (Sweden in the 80s/90s, for example) and we've got a huge scapegoat we can blame it on; a scapegoat we have, as the article above says, pumped trillions of dollars into without any visible results. The so-called "new states" are a lot worse off than 10 years ago as well.

If you collect, as I do, articles about money wasted in this process (money, which was invested poorly or simply thrown out of the window), it is safe to say that more than 50% of those trillions of dollars were wasted entirely.

So, every month since the early 90s I might as well have taken half of the money they took off my paycheck and lit my cigarettes (which, BTW, have doubled in price like so many other things) with it.

And that pisses me off as well, to put it mildly.

Cheers!

[Shrdlu]

It's probably all the Trabant fumes! (The U.K has an equivalent, the Ford.)

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Oh brother, all that complaining about reforms and taxes and work and so on..... especially from the unions. I guess they make up that one fourth who want the Mauer back. Still, I don't trust these numbers. If a referendum would take place -- I don't think that even ten percent (that would be the PDS voters plus some right-wingers) would vote for a new wall. Forsa is often asking stupid questions which provoke a kind of 'joking' response that can easily be pasted on the front page of the BILD-Zeitung. The problem is that nobody told the people right from the beginning that it would take a long time to catch up...and that's one of the few negatives that can be attributed to Helmut Kohl's chancellorship (hee, hee, hee B-) ).

[JSngry]

I find it refreshing that Germany as a whole is still entertaining the notion of "catching up", of recognizing that a substantial portion of its citizenry is at a distinct economic and social advantage through no fault of their own, and of at least attempting to create a level playing field for all who want to play the game.

Here's hoping that they can avoid the mistakes, all of them, that America has made in its attempts to do the same.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Here's hoping that they can avoid the mistakes, all of them, that America has made.....

Yeah, let's hope they don't go and do something monumentally stupid like start pasteurizing their beer.

[JSngry]

That wouldn't just be a mistake, that would be an act of insanity!

[Brad]

Reunification does cost. It's as simple as that. And it can't be done overnight. I imagine it would take years. The effect of World War II and its aftermath will be with us for hundreds of year probably. I'm sure the costs, material and otherwise, of reuniting the south into the Union after the American Civil War were numerous. I'm not sure we're over the non material costs yet.