Billie Holiday on WKCR

[Brad]

WKCR has announced that from April 1 through April 15 they will be having a Billie Holiday. That's nothing but Billie around the clock for two weeks. Should be pretty special.

[AfricaBrass]

Wow!

Thanks for the tip, Brad.

[garthsj]

it's nice to be able gripe abt this but i'd rather a week Billie & a week sumpin' else lesser known. Braxton week? Roscoe Mitchell? Bud Powell (who doesn't get birthday broadcast).

A week of Braxton??? Are you insane?? ... or are you trying to drive me toward that direction??

[7/4]

it's nice to be able gripe abt this but i'd rather a week Billie & a week sumpin' else lesser known. Braxton week? Roscoe Mitchell? Bud Powell (who doesn't get birthday broadcast).

A week of Braxton??? Are you insane?? ... or are you trying to drive me toward that direction??

Now, now...Braxton = good.

[Christiern]

Name your favorite Braxton composition--I dare you!

[7/4]

Name your favorite Braxton composition--I dare you!

23G.

[ghost of miles]

Now that Sony's merged with BMG, any chance that Cuscuna will finally get to do a Braxton Arista Mosaic?

As much as I love Billie--and I love her a lot--two weeks does seem like a bit much. I'll confess that the WKCR single-artist marathons don't hold the attraction for me that they do for others, but I'm glad that they do them, for those who enjoy them. (And am I a hypocrite of sorts? I was very grateful for the Grimes orgy a couple seasons back! )

Edited March 20, 2005 by ghost of miles

[Big Al]

As much as I love Billie--and I love her a lot--two weeks seems like a bit much.

Welllll, one week will be devoted to what Phil Schapp thinks he knows about Lady Day.

[Randy Twizzle]

I just hope and pray that no broadcasts of Columbia baseball games are preempted by this festival.

[Christiern]

Welllll, one week will be devoted to what Phil Schapp thinks he knows about Lady Day.

You beat me to it, Big Al.

[indigo]

This is one time I might welcome the interruption of a ballgame or even a long test of the emergency broadcasting system. I love Billie and broke the budget to donate to WKCR, but 360 hours? I'm weary just listening to the promos. Too bad they didn't combine the fundraising with a poll on the content of this year's festival. I'd trade some Billie days for some Bud . . . or Mal Waldron or Lucky Thompson or Sun Ra or Cecil Taylor . . . or . . .

But, as clementine suggests, it's a great complaint to have.

[Brad]

As a reminder, this festival starts tonight (or Friday morning) at 12:01 est.

[indigo]

Is WKCR available on internet radio ?

Thanks

Dave

www.wkcr.org

I'm in you're neighborhood (Taipei) and I'm listening now. I've been listening almost every day since I found it last year.

Tune in, enjoy . . . and send 'em some money. They really need it.

[Christiern]

I listened this morning and heard very little music--it was mostly Phil Schaap talking about a Billie book he has written (heaven help us) and urging people to cough up $250, which will make them a member of the "Billie Holiday Circle." Phil also mentioned his own name over and over again, once 3 times within in one minute. I listened to this blather because it was unbelievably pathetic. I'm an old hand at on-air pitching for contributions and what I heard this morning was poorly done--might even have been counterproductive.

I have also hear Ted Planken (who really knows his jazz and cares more about the music) and I heard one other dj, who knew very little about the subject at hand, but was far easier on the ears than Phil. They all seem to be reading from a script by Phil (presumably the book, which he humbly refers to as "the definitive book on Billie"), so pay little mind to that version of the Billie Holiday story. I hope WKCR survives its current crisis, but they really need to either dump Phil or remind him that it's not all about him.

That's my opinion--let's hear from others who have listened.

[indigo]

I hope WKCR survives its current crisis, but they really need to either dump Phil or remind him that it's not all about him.

That's my opinion--let's hear from others who have listened.

Okay, I'll bite. I don't hesitate to tune Phil out or turn him off, when I find him irritating. (In fact, I did a mental tune-out when he was on this morning.) But, as tiresome as he can be, I just don't think he's that big an issue. Actually, now that you've prompted me to think about this, I am, to my surprise , prepared to argue that he's good for the station. (Yipes! Did I say that?!!)

Mirabile dictu, some people enjoy him. After all, he was, according to reports I've seen, the biggest fund raiser during the last drive (although I have suspicions about that 10 grand that came in on his watch, dedicated to him and Max Roach). A few of his pleas were, I thought, very eloquent (unlike what I heard this morning). From that perspective, Phil is a plus.

I agree with detractors who say he's an egotist and a revisionist. But isn't that obvious to anyone who listens with a bit of attention? About the third or fourth time I heard him expounding on something, it was clear what he was up to -- even though I was ignorant about the subject matter, I knew not to swallow his line, at least not completely. Seems to me that jazz and the jazz world is healthy enough to deal with these attacks on accuracy. On this very board there's enough credibility, knowledge and influence to set things right when it's needed.

Although I don't know Phil (and may be assuming too much), I've known several people like him. I even worked for one once. The error, if you want to call it that, is an excess of enthusiasm and a childlike ego, not an ill-meaning intent to subvert.

My view is that a certain amount of friction or controversy is necessary to keep an organization from stagnating. Not too much, not too little. I think Phil provides just about the right amount -- keeps listeners debating and, no doubt, keeps things lively behind the scenes.

That said, I agree completely with your suggestion, Chris, that Phil be reminded that it's not all about him. Ben Young is the real star in my book, and there are several others I enjoy hearing almost as much.

I'm interested to hear what others have to say.

[kinuta]

I'm sure the chaps' fund raising appeals were sincere but after 20 minutes of talk and no BH I gave up and changed channels.

[ghost of miles]

I'm sure the chaps' fund raising appeals were sincere but after 20 minutes of talk and no BH I gave up and changed channels.

20 minutes?! Not a fund-drive "best practice," I can assure you!

[Christiern]

That said, I agree completely with your suggestion, Chris, that Phil be reminded that it's not all about him. Ben Young is the real star in my book, and there are several others I enjoy hearing almost as much.

I'm interested to hear what others have to say.

I agree re Ben Young and I think Ted Planken is another asset. His interviews can be as illuminating as Phil's are painful.

[Lazaro Vega]

I could drive just about from Lake Michigan to Grand Rapids in 20 minutes. Point is if I turned on the radio to hear music and heard talk for that length of time, well, there are other stations to turn on for that: they're called Talk Radio. If it is "Jazz Profiles" that's one thing -- a well done mix of talk, info and music, but just reading a book? 5 minutes is plenty, and then at least 2 cuts by Billie so the music is longer than the talking. But that's for a music program. Maybe he does a "Talk Jazz Radio" show.

[Christiern]

Detailing Schaap's inaccuracies is a case of "where to begin." As anyone who engages in serious jazz research will tell you, the guy is so bent on standing out from the crowd that he simply makes things up! He will established facts and contradict them without offering any evidence to prove his point. He makes assumptions with an air of authority and people who don't know enough to see through his little game end up believing that he is, indeed, an authority. He knows a lot of details, such as recording dates, matrix numbers, personnel, birthdays, and solo orders, but that does not make him the authority he likes to bill himself as.

I have previously (in other threads) given specific instances of Schaap distortions, so I hope you can find them rather than have me repeat earlier posts. The disturbing aspect of his revisionism is that it often flies in the face of fact to such an extent that it has to be deliberate distortion. When you spend a lifetime trying to correct the sloppiness of early researchers (often amateur record collectors like Schaap), as many of us have done, you hate to see some attention-seeking jerk come along and twist the work of truly dedicated scholars. It would be one thing if he actually turned up facts, such as Ted Joans did when he unearthed Armstrong's true date of birth (Giddin's shamelessly took credit), but that is not something Schaap does.

In closing, let me give you a quote from an e-mail I received yesterday. Respecting his privacy, I will not mention this gentleman's name, suffice it to say that he is very accomplished and that his name graces many a book and record album. I had mentioned Phil Schaap's botching of reissues. The response is typical of what one hears from people who--like me--have observed Schaap from inside the business"

• " Phil Schaap: oh, you mean the man who knows everything about everything, to the exclusion of everyone else on the planet.  I can not stand to be within a mile of that posturing prig!  His productions are generally antiseptic and confusing, despite his efforts and intentions.
  
  He's probably the worst individual I've ever encountered during my entire lifetime's involvement with jazz, etc.  'Nuff said!!"
  

Indeed, 'nuff said!

[AllenLowe]

Clem - I know it's a pain to keep citing anonymous sources, but I'll have to do one more, because I can't divulge the name, but it is someone whom I regard as one of the pre-eminent jazz historians in the world (and no, it's not Francis Davis) - this historian, who is probably the most careful person I know when it comes to sifting fact from fiction, told me of hearing Phil speak at an Ellington conference and,that, basically, Phil was making things up, citing things as fact that were fiction - I like Phil, personally, and think his heart is in the right place, but he really has gone a bit too far in the last decade or so - -

Edited April 6, 2005 by AllenLowe

[indigo]

Hey guys-- I don't have a problem w/criticism of Schaap-- I just feel it should take a reasonably organized form.

... <snip?> ,,,

I just don't want the trouble w/Schaap (better or worse than "The Trouble With Harry"? YOU make the call...) to get in the way of the to me VERY IMPORTANT issue of saving WKCR.

now for some coffee-- you guys want any?

c

strong and black, please.

Thanks for the nice summation.

You all are over there and also have access facts to shoot down Phil's errors. If they're so egregrious and frequent (and they may well be -- I have no way to know), is there some forum where they can be exposed in a way that would do some good?

[Lazaro Vega]

Clem, wa?

That they don't fundraise as much as stations who have a reliable audience for survival means that taking a 20 minute break is o.k.? I'm all for phone number, anecdote about music, fone number, anecdote about the station, fewn number, into music. Repeat ad naseum.

Shorter breaks and more music don't work for that audience is what you're saying?

On a bus to Alban Berg's house....

[kinuta]

Perhaps I was unlucky tuning in during a long rap. Today it was straight music with no chat.

[Randy Twizzle]

One of my favorite Schaap moments took place during a Sidney Bechet festival when he lost his temper on the air and threatened to stop the festival cold because too many listeners were calling the station and bothering him with questions, comments etc. when he needed to be doing other things. It was hilarious to hear him carry on like a stressed out substitute teacher, I wish I had a tape of it.