mikeweil Posted October 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Finally, after another round of careful A/B comparisons of tracks, could identify the "Journey's End" from this Crown LP with "Land's End" from the January 20, 1957 Cal Tjader session recorded at the Blackhawk. It's the same track from start to finish, but the high level of surface noise on the Crown LP supresses all the crowd noise and room ambience audible on the Fantasy LP, and they faded out a second or two at the end to eliminate the applause. Mrss. Bruyninckx and Lord, correct your discographies! Ugh - another item crossed off my list of Tjader mysteries .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 I was Googling about an LP I found at the thrift store yesterday and found this group, so I joined. Hello, I live in Northern California. The LP I found perhaps adds more confusion to the topic at hand. I have here Crown CLP 5406: Dave Brubeck / Paul Desmond Quartet / Cal Tjader Quartet --- At A Perfume Counter. Purple Moon. Jazz Latino The Brubeck track takes a whole side and is the same as the one disscussed in this thread. On the other side, the first tune (Purple Moon) sounds to be Paul Desmond with a Flugelhorn (?) in the group. and the second track on side two does indeed sound like a live track with Cal with Vince on piano. I only bring this up because this particular Crown issue (5406) was not mentioned and it does relate in that it uses some of the same material. Now I am wondering about this Paul Desmond Quartet and who the other brass player is with him. I realize this is an old thread and everyone must have long sinced moved on, but thought I would give it a try anyway..... Zeno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 On the other side, the first tune (Purple Moon) sounds to be Paul Desmond with a Flugelhorn (?) in the group. and the second track on side two does indeed sound like a live track with Cal with Vince on piano. I only bring this up because this particular Crown issue (5406) was not mentioned and it does relate in that it uses some of the same material. Now I am wondering about this Paul Desmond Quartet and who the other brass player is with him. Zeno These Crown LP's have been repackaged umpteen times. The Desmond track "Purple Moon" is actually "Sacre Blues", rec. 2/14/56, originally issued on Fantasy 3235, "Paul Desmond Quartet". Paul Desmond (alto), Don Elliott (mellophone), Norman Bates (bass), Joe Dodge (drums). The Tjader track "Jazz Latino" is actually "Bill B", rec. 1/20/57, issued on Fantasy 3241/8096 "Jazz at the Blackhawk". Cal Tjader (vibes), Vince Guaraldi (piano), Gene Wright (bass), Al Torre (drums). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Thanks for the response. I am still trying to learn how to navigate this forum. Don't see how I reply to a specific post, or how to quote that post in my reply. If I stick around I will have to come up with an avatar, that will be fun. Nice forum format, this might be a good place to hang out. How does the "attach a file" thing work? can the file (image) be shown in the body of the post? I do have lots of original Tjader vinyl and have that Fantasy issue, but now I realize from all of this that I am a bit shy on original Fantasy Desmond vinyl and will have to do some shopping....and ain't that just one of the best things to do while listening to jazz... Zeno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 so did crown buy the rights to rerelease that fantasy material, or was it just illegally duplicated? it would be interesting to read those old Q & A articles that were mentioned, if possible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 so did crown buy the rights to rerelease that fantasy material, or was it just illegally duplicated? it would be interesting to read those old Q & A articles that were mentioned, if possible... Crown, aka Modern. aka Kent, aka Bihari brothers licensed stuff from Fantasy and other West Coast labels. Nothing bought, just a license for a limited period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted December 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) so did crown buy the rights to rerelease that fantasy material, or was it just illegally duplicated? it would be interesting to read those old Q & A articles that were mentioned, if possible... Crown, aka Modern. aka Kent, aka Bihari brothers licensed stuff from Fantasy and other West Coast labels. Nothing bought, just a license for a limited period of time. If they licensed properly, why in all the world did they retitle, and did they do it with the other labels' consent? Edited December 8, 2005 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 If they licensed properly, why in all the world did they retitle, and did they do it with the other labels' consent? I'm speculating here, but perhaps the terms of the deal included retitling the material, so that Fantasy did not create competition with its own releases. Perhaps Fantasy wanted to conceal the source of the material for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 On a yahoo search, Bihari brings up 2 names in beverly hills, and two in LA, not to mention about 75 others across the usa. i dont see how we will ever get definite answers without politely telephoning with our inquires-- is anyone up to the task? i will gladly do it later tonite but right now i have to pick up the kids from piano lessons-- be sure to post a message if you phone, as to insure we dont badger the nice people twice with questions about crown records! A Bihari Beverly Hills, CA 90210 Tel.: (310) 276-0792 ------------------ Charlene Bihari Beverly Hills, CA 90210 Tel.: (310) 557-1306 ------------------ Joseph Bihari Los Angeles, CA 90024 Tel.: (310) 470-5370 ----------------- Lita Bihari 2116 Midvale Ave Los Angeles, CA 90025 Tel.: (310) 470-2134 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat5 Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 In 1962-1964 I used to buy thr Crown LPs at Ralph's Supermarket in Van Nuys, Ca. for 88 cents each. I'm sure the These Foolish Things alto is Sonny Criss. I remember it as a studio recording with a lot of echo, not live. However, it was a LONG time ago :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 There's a Criss "These Foolish Things" on Imperial, but it's vibes-less, unless Kenny Drew is playing the "vibories" (or however that's spelled). I'll listen and report. Or someone else can beat me to it (it's on the 2-CD BN reissue "Sonny Criss: The Complete Imperial Sessions"). Only other West Coast altoist I can think of offhand who might be mistaken for McLean is Joe Maini. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 No vibes on that Criss track, or elsewhere on the album, and besides Sonny Criss never could be mistaken for Jackie McLean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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