Your tune selection for Sets.

[Hardbopjazz]

For those who play music for a living, do you change the tunes you play during each set? If you do two or more sets a night, how many tunes do you repeat? Last week I went and saw Lou Donaldson at the Vanguard. I stayed for both sets. With the exception of one tune, everything else was the same. It was odd. I’m pretty sure he knows more then 9 tunes. It made me wonder why the lack of creativity on his part. He did have a new piano player he never played with before. Could it be the piano player didn't know the tunes? I don't think this was the reason. Maybe at 78 years old, Lou's ability limits what he plays.

Edited May 5, 2005 by Hardbopjazz

[JSngry]

Nah. It's show-biz. Cat doesn't do sets, he does "shows".

Nothing wrong with that, either.

[Jazz Kat]

I guess most people don't stay for both sets?

[JSngry]

Shows.

Remember, it's shows, not sets.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I approach attending weekly engagements with the assumption that the music on an *evening* will not change much from day to day. However, I do expect that if I stay for two sets, I will hear different tunes in each. Generally this works. So, when I go to hear a big band like Maria Schneider's, I know that if I stay for both sets, I'll hear pretty much all the repertoire the band is planning to share with the audience over the course of the week. And if I came back the next night, I'd hear the exact same tunes, maybe in the same sequence, maybe not. A group structured like that, promoting a new album needs that kind of reliability.

When I heard a straight week (something like fifteen sets) of Tony Scott & Buddy DeFranco, there were a number of givens, but there were also some wild cards, plus there were different guests each night.

Another variable is whether it's a longstanding working band. That kind of group can have more flexibility. I do think the new piano player would be a factor. I have seen Lou Donaldson several times with different groups (sometimes with Herman Foster, sometimes with Lonnie Smith) and haven't noticed the rerun syndrome. But I think those were all concert- or festival-type presentations, not club gigs with multiple shows.

Mike

[AllenLowe]

who was playing bass with Donaldson?

[Hardbopjazz]

who was playing bass with Donaldson?

John Webber

[Jazz Kat]

drums?

[Hardbopjazz]

Randy Johnson on Guitar

John Webber on Bass

Fukushi Tainaka on drums

Phat Williams on Piano

[Dan Gould]

I've not seen LD but I've heard many private recordings of his sets and the similarity of playlists is obvious, but I am quite sure it has nothing to do with any limitation on his ability or have anything to do with age either.

I'm sure its a combination of what Jim said (doing a "show" not a "set") and what Mike said (new pianist).

[AllenLowe]

a friend of mine used to play bass with Donaldson, and he's definitely a character - pictures himself as a showman, and may be a bit jaded these days - not to mention tired of touring -

[Hardbopjazz]

yeah, at 78 or 79, I'd be tired. He sat when the other cats soloed.

[Soul Stream]

yeah, at 78 or 79, I'd be tired. He sat when the other cats soloed.

That's hard to hear. Seen Lou a lot and have never seen him sit during the show. Hope we aren't losing him. Dr. Lonnie not being as available these days must be a blow to Lou. Lou rules. I love Lou.

[Rooster_Ties]

Nah. It's show-biz. Cat doesn't do sets, he does "shows".

Nothing wrong with that, either.

Really?? Nothing wrong with show-biz??

So if a guy – or rather a band - plays three sets in one night... Excuse me - I mean three "shows" ...then one shouldn't be surprised if all three "shows" have identical set-lists?? (Or I guess they should be called "show-lists" then. ) Or even the same for just two "shows" in one night??

I can understand repeating a tune or two across "shows" (especially if a couple of them are signature tunes). That's to be expected. But to repeat the same set show again, with all of the exact same tunes (and in the same order ) -- seems pretty darn lazy if you ask me. Do these musicians not know any standards??

Also begs the question, do they play the exact same show, every night, in every town, night after night?? Is the order of the solos identical every night?? Are the solos particularly similar from "show" to "show"??? Doesn't seem to be what jazz is all about. The idea of a "show" somehow seems more appropriate for a cabaret act or something -- not jazz. I mean, it's not like there's some elaborate light show that has to be synched to the music.

[Hardbopjazz]

That was the 18th time I've seen Lou Donaldson. I've stayed for both sets, sometime even a third set. He always plays 2 or 3 tunes across sets. One tune to showcase the drummer, and 1 or 2 of his well know funk numbers, but this time 7 of the 8 tunes repeated. I'm hoping it was that he was playing with 2 new guys. But they should know shit load of tunes if they're gigging.

Edited May 5, 2005 by Hardbopjazz

[Soul Stream]

That was the 18th time I've seen Lou Donaldson. I've stayed for both sets, sometime even a third set. He always plays 2 or 3 tunes across sets. One tune to showcase the drummer, and 1 or 2 of his well know funk numbers, but this time 7 of the 8 tunes repeated. I'm hoping it was that he was playing with 2 new guys. But they should know shit load of tunes if they're gigging.

What were the repeated tunes if you can remember...or the set lists as best to your memory. It'd be interesting to me as to what he plays when not playing with an organ.

[Hardbopjazz]

First set

1. Stella by starlight, 2. Steeplechase, 3. I can't get started 4 Fast and Freaky 5. Whisky drinking woman 6. Lou sat out this number, the rest of the band played. Didn't recall the tune 7. The Alligator Bogallo.

Second set

All the same with the exception of tune 2, he played Ornithology.

[JSngry]

Nah. It's show-biz. Cat doesn't do sets, he does "shows".

Nothing wrong with that, either.

Really?? Nothing wrong with show-biz??

So if a guy – or rather a band - plays three sets in one night... Excuse me - I mean three "shows" ...then one shouldn't be surprised if all three "shows" have identical set-lists?? (Or I guess they should be called "show-lists" then. ) Or even the same for just two "shows" in one night??

I can understand repeating a tune or two across "shows" (especially if a couple of them are signature tunes). That's to be expected. But to repeat the same set show again, with all of the exact same tunes (and in the same order ) -- seems pretty darn lazy if you ask me. Do these musicians not know any standards??

Also begs the question, do they play the exact same show, every night, in every town, night after night?? Is the order of the solos identical every night?? Are the solos particularly similar from "show" to "show"??? Doesn't seem to be what jazz is all about. The idea of a "show" somehow seems more appropriate for a cabaret act or something -- not jazz. I mean, it's not like there's some elaborate light show that has to be synched to the music.

Nope, nothing at all wrong with show business, not if you do it right.

Not my bag personally, and lord knows it's a concept that's been whored out as much as anything can be, but the washed out whore was once a beautiful lady of immeasurable style and grace, and those who can remember/respect that still walk amongst us.

As for what jazz is "supposed" to be, the notion that every night is supposed to be different every time out is a wondeful one, but, in the words of the song, it ain't necessarily so, nor has it ever been universally so. And we're talking about some great players, too.

Here's the question - if you had only seen the one Lou Donaldson set/show, would you have left feeling entertained, uplifted, and, at some level, enriched? If the answer is "yes", then hey - mission accomplished, and ain't nobody's business what he do otherwise. That's between him and himself.