Soul Stream Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Just got the Jazz Casual episode featuring Art Pepper. Is this just me, or does the music and group seem odd. It's from 1964 and it seems that Art is trying to fall somewhere between Coltrane and Jackie McLean, but it's a very bad attempt it seems. Like REALLY wearing someone else's drawers! I mean the whole band just plods along. Frank S. on piano trying to play a Tyner-type piece, he even quotes something so romantic as "While My Lady Sleeps" amidst it. Seems like he'd rather be playing almost anything than what Pepper's making him play. And the bass and drums...the most timid stuff imaginable. It's like the Coltrane band with all the life drained out. I don't know much about Art from this era in his life, but this seems a far (and unsuccessful) cry from Art Pepper meets the Rhythm Section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 In "Straight Time" he talks about how he'd fallen under Trane's influence at the time. I've been trying to find some cds from the same period but to no avail. I'm not sure which ones I should be looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted July 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 In "Straight Time" he talks about how he'd fallen under Trane's influence at the time. I've been trying to find some cds from the same period but to no avail. I'm not sure which ones I should be looking for. ← ...if they're from this same period...maybe you shouldn't be looking for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 I've been trying to find some cds from the same period but to no avail. I'm not sure which ones I should be looking for. ← That's because there aren't any! Pepper didn't lead any official recording sessions between 'Intensity' (November 1960) and 'Living Legend' (August 1975) (There was a Feb '75 session issued later on I think) Most of the intervening period was spent in jail, as a result of Pepper's, uh, recreational pursuits. A waste of a decade and a half in the career of a great talent. Fresh Sounds put out a couple of discs of live recordings from the gap; Art Pepper Quartet '64 in San Francisco includes the Jazz Casual date plus a couple of tracks from a gig the next month and Live at Donte's, Volumes 1 & 2 from November '68. Haven't heard these so I can't vouch for them. I have the Jazz Casual session and while I like it (I like Pepper and find this transitional period intriguing) I know where you're coming from. A lot of players in this period were reassessing their approach to the music and their instruments and while Pepper seems willing to push the envelope he also seems unsure of the results. The rest of the band aren't nearly as adventurous. It is certainly odd. When Pepper resumed his career he sounded more like a synthesis of his old self plus the Coltrane influences. The Village Vanguard sessions are fascinating for having Elvin Jones light a fire under his ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 You've also got his 1968 appearance on Buddy Rich's Mercy, Mercy, but I don't know that that's necessarily a document of anything more than his time w/Rich's band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Pepper's, uh, recreational pursuits.← I have the Jazz Casual DVD, but haven't come around watching it. Now this thread definitely wants me to give it a spin tonight! And I think I like the Vanguard dates better than most of the 50s Pepper I know (but then I haven't heard many of the Contemporary albums yet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Kat Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 I think Art did a few albums in 1968. They were live albums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted July 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 ...and maybe it's just his personality when he's talking to Gleason...but Art's speech sounds, and the band all LOOK pretty strung out imho...although it's not based on anything but speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 (edited) See Chapter 17 of Straight Life--The Check Protector, 1964-1965 for the gory details (music, sex, drugs, thievery, violence) of this brief sojourn outside of San Quentin. ...and maybe it's just his personality when he's talking to Gleason...but Art's speech sounds, and the band all LOOK pretty strung out imho...although it's not based on anything but speculation. ← Edited July 4, 2005 by kh1958 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 ...and maybe it's just his personality when he's talking to Gleason...but Art's speech sounds, and the band all LOOK pretty strung out imho...although it's not based on anything but speculation. ← Gleason's interview is curiously strained... The band have just finished playing a tune called 'The Trip' and Ralph's first question is "what does that phrase mean to you?" Which is either the dumbest question ever... or the smartest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted July 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 ...and maybe it's just his personality when he's talking to Gleason...but Art's speech sounds, and the band all LOOK pretty strung out imho...although it's not based on anything but speculation. ← Gleason's interview is curiously strained... The band have just finished playing a tune called 'The Trip' and Ralph's first question is "what does that phrase mean to you?" Which is either the dumbest question ever... or the smartest! ← Yes, I found it to be the worst interview of the JC shows. Gleason seems almost to be taunting Pepper at times. Do you REHEARSE this kind of music? Why do you play this kind of music? Stuff like that. You can tell Ralph ain't diggin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 The only other Jazz Casual interview that I remember seeing was with Sonny Rollins, and it was no great shakes either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Yes, all the interviews on the show are fairly trite, but the one with Pepper is probably the most excruciating. It's like watching someone having teeth pulled. To be fair to Gleason, he may have been deliberately asking questions that would elicit answers understandable to the lay-person. This was 'educational TV' after all. Such is the nature of most TV. These days we'd call it 'dumbing down'. But the interview with Art just seems oddly confrontational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Hell, if showing jazz on TV and trying to teach people about it is "dumbing down" - I have no idea what to call the crap that pervades the boob tube now. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Hell, if showing jazz on TV and trying to teach people about it is "dumbing down" - I have no idea what to call the crap that pervades the boob tube now. Mike ← Amen to that! I don't know how things are in the US right now, but in the UK any programme about jazz (or the arts in general) is rare. The two channels that traditionally dedicated themselves to that sort of programming (BBC2, Channel 4) are now endless back-to-back reality shows and home makeovers. I have switched my TV on probably about four times in the last five months. And we're supposed to have (so they tell us) the best TV in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 (edited) well, Pepper was strung out to the end - contary to the official story he was taking large amounts of cocaine, supplementing it with methadone when he could pass the urine test - so it's not surprising to see him strung out at this time. Pepper was really hung up, for the last 15 or so years of his life, with sounding "contemporary" - to the end he would alternate sublime playing with fake Coltrane-isms and the occasional pointless squeal, as though that showed he had kept up with the times. This is all just my opinion, but his ballad playing got more and more maudlin as well - all part of a pervasive junkie narcissism, as I see it. And yet - I heard him 4 or 5 times post-1976 and there were some still-brilliant moments - and he was probably the greatest clarinetist I ever saw - Edited July 4, 2005 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 My favorite Jazz Casuals are the ones with Rushing, Basie, Pops and Cannon. . . of those I've seen those ara topnotch! There is better Pepper out there. . .for sure ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted July 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 (edited) I LOVE the Coltrane, Rollins, Basie, Witherspoon/Webster and Art Farmer shows from Jazz Casual the best. Really looking forward to seeing them all. Also love the vocal shows as well...McCrae, Torme...and want to see the Lamberts. Woody Herman too. ....well...hell, ALL of them!!! PS...also, watching further the Art Pepper show. The 2nd number was MUCH more successful that the first. Kind of an Ornette-style blues. But the overall sentiment is that Pepper is just trying something that isn't natural to him to be "hip." Like Allen said. However, I do give him points for trying some wild shit on national television. He exposed himself to say the least and I'll give him a thumbs up for that kind of behaviour any day! Edited July 5, 2005 by Soul Stream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatifan Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 I'm seeing some of the Jazz Casual programs not issued domestically as official issues on DVD in a couple places, and I'm wondering which I should get (quality-wise). Amazon Marketplace has a number of sellers with the Idem DVDs that have 2 episodes per disc, and then True Blue has some that have 3 eps per disc (PAL one side, NTSC on the other). Any opinions on which is the better choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Garrett Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 I'm seeing some of the Jazz Casual programs not issued domestically as official issues on DVD in a couple places, and I'm wondering which I should get (quality-wise). Amazon Marketplace has a number of sellers with the Idem DVDs that have 2 episodes per disc, and then True Blue has some that have 3 eps per disc (PAL one side, NTSC on the other). Any opinions on which is the better choice? I'm assuming the PAL/NTSC ones you're referring to are the ones in the Complete Jazz Casual Series 8-DVD box set. I don't have this set (yet), but it was pretty highly recommended to me by a friend who'd taken the plunge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatifan Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 I'm assuming the PAL/NTSC ones you're referring to are the ones in the Complete Jazz Casual Series 8-DVD box set. I don't have this set (yet), but it was pretty highly recommended to me by a friend who'd taken the plunge. Yes, that's the one, and that's a better price than True Blue has it for, I believe. Even though I have a couple of the single domestic issues, this sounds nice, and it seems that not all of those 8 discs are available seperately at True Blue. The issues on Amazon marketplace (from Idem) are what I don't see much about.....Idem is linked up with Disconforme/Definitive, so I wonder if that makes them the usual Italian public domain rip-offs? P.S. Dave, I need to PM you........I had promised a DVDR of Sternberg's "Underworld" on Mobius a long time ago.....then my DVD burner went kaboom. I've got it transferred now, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Hell, if showing jazz on TV and trying to teach people about it is "dumbing down" - I have no idea what to call the crap that pervades the boob tube now. Mike ← Amen to that! I don't know how things are in the US right now, but in the UK any programme about jazz (or the arts in general) is rare. The two channels that traditionally dedicated themselves to that sort of programming (BBC2, Channel 4) are now endless back-to-back reality shows and home makeovers. I have switched my TV on probably about four times in the last five months. And we're supposed to have (so they tell us) the best TV in the world. As far as I know, there isn't ANY jazz programming on US television at all----and hasn't been for a long, long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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