Ellington's MONEY JUNGLE

[ghost of miles]

Hey all,

I'm looking for articles/info about Ellington's MONEY JUNGLE session... I have both Mingus bios and some Ellington material, and am hoping to find more. Does the new re-mastered edition include any sort of historical essay? (I have only the 1987 CD.)

And no, posts regarding the long-running BN/Org. Money Jungle epic do not count!

[couw]

there is a short piece by Cuscuna in the 2002 issue. Nothing much revealing, though.

[ghost of miles]

Thanks, Couw. One of the better things I've found so far is a two-page section from REMINISCING IN TEMPO (pg. 334-336) for anybody else who is interested in the background to this album.

[couw]

Cuscuna piece below, excuses for the mistakes made by the text recognition. I read through it and corrected some, but I am half blind and lazy today...

This album was made during a rather unique period in the 38th year of Ellington's long recording career. A series of unusual first-time encounters began on August 18, 1962 when he recorded Duke Ellington Meets Coleman Hawkins, an exceptional album by an octet filled out by ringers from the orchestra. On September 17 came this summit with Mingus and Roach. Nine days later Duke Ellington And John Coltrane was made with bassists Jimmy Garrison and Aaron Bell and drummers Elvin Jones and Sam Woodyard in various combinations to complete the quartet.

Sadly, session tapes of the Hawkins and Coltrane encounters have not survived. The complete results of the "Money Jungle" date, however, have. Now, all of the releasable music is here, newly remastered in 24-bit for vastly improved sound.

The seven tracks that graced the original album were either older well-known Ellington classics or new forward-thinking compositions by the master. Listening to the title tune and "Wig Wise," both unique in the Ellington canon, it is hard to imagine that Duke was not aware of contemporary pianist/composers like Herbie Nichols and Cecil Taylor. Of the four originals introduced here, two have had an extended life. “Fleurette Africaine“ (also known as “Les Fleurs Africaines and “African Flower“) has been recorded by a variety of modern artists like Gary Burton, James Newton and Michel Petrucciani. Jason Moran recently explored “Wig Wise“ on his Facing Left (Blue Note B2-23884). Both tunes appear on Bill Mays‘s Concord album An Ellington Affair and the Palmetto CD entitled The Other Side Of Ellington, by a quintet consisting of saxophonist Joel Frahm, pianist David Berkman, guitarist Pete McCann, bassist Ben Allison and drummer Matt Wilson.

Of the four titles left in the vaults, all were new Ellington titles and three were traditional blues. They were neither time-honored nor groundbreaking. lt easy to see why these would be the easiest to eliminate from the finished album. Nonetheless there is some gorgeous playing by all three men on every selection here.

reevaluating the session tapes, I have added previousiy unissued alternate takes of “REM Blues“ and “Switch Blade“ as well as the false Start that precedes the master take of “Backward Country Boy Blues.“ On it, Mingus plays the introduction only to be interrupted by producer Alan Dougias, at which point Duke says, “Ah, that was so good...that was sweet“ before they launch into the tune again. It creates a mental picture of this session that is a far cry from all the rumored friction and disagreements among these giants.

Edited September 17, 2005 by couw

[Free For All]

THIS SHIT REALLY ROCKS YUO SHOULD CHECK IT OUT SS1

Memories.......

[ghost of miles]

You know, I don't think Starbucks carries MONEY JUNGLE anymore... maybe Aric could send the new Herbie instead?

[ghost of miles]

Thanks for posting those notes, couw. "Rumored friction and disagreement?" I'm sure the stories have been somewhat embellished over the years, but Duke himself said that Mingus walked out and said he couldn't play with Roach. Duke talked him into coming back, and said that everything went happily after that... but Mercer is quoted in REMINSCING as saying that they had a two-album contract with UA, and that the second album never came off in part because of the "rumored friction."

[couw]

I went back to this thread (damn! that's still beautiful!) and saw your question on the takes. Here's a run down on the 2002 CD issue:

ORDER OF RECORDING FOR THE MONEY JUNGLE SESSION

TAKE 1 ......................................................VERY SPECIAL*

TAKE 6 ........................................A LITTLE MAX (PARFAIT)

TAKE 14 ..........A LITTLE MAX (PARFAIT) - ALTERNATE TAKE

TAKE 2 ........ FLEURETTE AFRICAIN (aka AFRICAN FLOWER)*

TAKE 1 ...............................REM BLUES - ALTERNATE TAKE **

TAKE 3 ...........................................................REM BLUES

TAKE 1 .............................................................WIG WISE*

TAKE 2 ......................................................SWITCH BLADE

TAKE 4 ..........................SWITCH BLADE - ALTERNATE TAKE**

TAKE 1 ..............................................................CARAVAN

TAKE 2 ......................................................MONEY JUNGLE*

TAKE 3 .................................SOLITUDE - ALTERNATE TAKE

TAKE 4 .............................................................SOLITUDE*

TAKE 3 ........................................................WARM VALLEY*

TAKE 1 ....BACKWARD COUNTRY BOY BLUES - FALSE START**

TAKE 2 ...........................BACKWARD COUNTRY BOY BLUES

* on original United Artists LP

** issued on this CD for the first time

[ghost of miles]

Thanks again--looks like everything made it onto the new CD. Maybe it was a different alternate take of one of the numbers on the 2002 version? I just seem to remember Chuck or somebody else mentioning that something hadn't carried over... I plan to post a link, btw, to the comic when I put up info for the Money Jungle Night Lights program in a couple of weeks.

[Kalo]

Thanks for posting those Cuscuna notes, couw. I haven't seen them, as I decided not to "upgrade" to the latest release (after already having "upgraded" from LP reissue to first CD reissue).

I like this session a lot, and I liked the comic, too. Anyone who hasn't looked at the comic should check it out.

[Dave James]

You might want to check with Aric Effron. I think he has a copy.

Up over and out.

[catesta]

THIS SHIT REALLY ROCKS YUO SHOULD CHECK IT OUT SS1

Memories.......

←

yukyukyuk

[Guest]

THIS SHIT REALLY ROCKS YUO SHOULD CHECK IT OUT SS1

I have this album . The LP version that used to be my Dad's. I LOVE this album. Ellington never was that creative before to me, so much in control of his own greatness!

And Mingus...oh my...

Max Roach is my favorite drummer EVER...so go figure...

Edited September 24, 2005 by Billie

[Chuck Nessa]

I have this album . The LP version that used to be my Dad's. I LOVE this album. Ellington never was that creative before to me, so much in control of his own greatness!

And Mingus...oh my...

Max Roach is my favorite drummer EVER...so go figure...

←

Seem to be issues here - way beyond music.

[Chuck Nessa]

Thanks again--looks like everything made it onto the new CD.  Maybe it was a different alternate take of one of the numbers on the 2002 version?  I just seem to remember Chuck or somebody else mentioning that something hadn't carried over... I plan to post a link, btw, to the comic when I put up info for the Money Jungle Night Lights program in a couple of weeks.

←

Don't remember the details now but one of the alts is the wrong alt (and new to release). Talkin' 'bout the latest reissue.

[catesta]

I have this album . The LP version that used to be my Dad's. I LOVE this album. Ellington never was that creative before to me, so much in control of his own greatness!

And Mingus...oh my...

Max Roach is my favorite drummer EVER...so go figure...

←

Seem to be issues here - way beyond music.

←

I was thinking the same thing, go figure.

Edited September 25, 2005 by catesta

[Clunky]

regarding the most recent remaster of Money Jungle ( i.e. the second domestic issue from 2006 approx.) , I'm sure I read somewhere that a track was missed off the newer issue or perhaps it was misidentified. Am I recollecting this, correctly.

I love this session and am sorely tempted to upgrade from the earlier CD version for better sound and the two alternate takes.

[nathan]

Has anyone w/ the ancient CD issue of this comapred it w/ the semi-recent remaster? Is it a marked imrpovement over the fairly dreadful sound on the original CD?

Thanks for any input!

n.

[Shrdlu]

Mingus did walk out over Max's drumming. You will recall that he only liked Danny Richmond at the time, and would only use him on his recordings.

But Duke must have disliked Mingus, because when the personnel for Mingus's concert in 1971 was being chosen (issued by Columbia, and it's great too), the Duke heard that Mingus wanted Harry Carney, and actually paid him not to appear. So, Charlie had to settle for Gerry Mulligan, lol.

How sad, when you consider how much Mingus loved Duke's work.

[Chuck Nessa]

Think you might have details wrong.

[mtodde]

If you have a turntable the reissue from Classic Records is definitely worthwhile. Yeah it's $33 but that beats tracking down a decent original and is probably a lot cheaper to boot. I have an older CD that sounds pretty good but nothing like the vinyl.

[Shrdlu]

Think you might have details wrong.

Well I dunno really. It was in the liner notes for the Mingus concert album I think.

Hope the info was wrong. I mean, both Duke and Mingus are awesome. If they did feud, it was sad. If not, well great.

[JSngry]

As I understand it, Mingus walked out over Max' drumming because he felt it was not respectful of Duke's style. There was also some residual resentment between the two about the way the dissolution of Debut went down.

Duke performed "The Clown" at Monterrey(?) one year during Mingus' "lost years" of depression and over-medication. I believe Mingus was in the audience for the performance?

Anyway, if the two weren't bosom buddies or anything, I don't think there was any type of a "feud". If the Carney story is true, it's far more likely a case of Duke being "possessive" of a truly irreplaceable voice and thoroughly reliable part player in his orchestra at a time when there weren't all that many left of either quantity.

[Shrdlu]

But it wouldn't have done any harm to let Harry play at the Mingus concert. Anyway, Gerry was great.

Miles didn't want his rhythm section to play on the Wes Montgomery live session with Johnny Griffin, but Wynton said something like "Well, in that case, you pay us more than Orrin is going to pay us.".

[.:.impossible]

But it wouldn't have done any harm to let Harry play at the Mingus concert. Anyway, Gerry was great.

Jimmy Knepper.