Who is Charlie James?

[Hardbopjazz]

There is a coffee house where I live. They play jazz music and also have replica posters on the walls of various Jazz artists and big bands. For example, there's a poster of Chick Webb's band with Ella. There's a poster of Benny Goodman. There is also one of Duke and his big band and one of Dizzy. But there is one poster of Charlie James and his big band at the Savoy, cica 1938. I never heard of Charlie James, nor can I find anything out about him. I asked the owner/manager if he was real. He said he bought the posters online and he believes he's a real person, but wasn't 100% sure. Does the name Charlie James ring a bell for anyone here?

Edited December 12, 2005 by Hardbopjazz

[GA Russell]

I remember a third baseman for the Cardinals named Charlie James.

He was traded for Roger Maris.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

There is a coffee house where I live. They play jazz music and also have replica posters on the walls of various Jazz artists and big bands. For example, there's a poster of Chick Webb's band with Ella. There's a poster of Benny Goodman. There is also one of Duke and his big band and one of Dizzy. But there is one poster of Charlie James and his big band at the Savoy, cica 1938. I never heard of Charlie James, nor can I find anything out about him. I asked the owner/manager if he was real. He said he bought the posters online and he believes he's a real person, but wasn't 100% sure. Does the name Charlie James ring a bell for anyone here?

I think he's made up. No Charlie James is listed in Lord's discography. It wouldn't have been a pseudonym on a poster.

MG

[Hardbopjazz]

There is a coffee house where I live. They play jazz music and also have replica posters on the walls of various Jazz artists and big bands. For example, there's a poster of Chick Webb's band with Ella. There's a poster of Benny Goodman. There is also one of Duke and his big band and one of Dizzy. But there is one poster of Charlie James and his big band at the Savoy, cica 1938. I never heard of Charlie James, nor can I find anything out about him. I asked the owner/manager if he was real. He said he bought the posters online and he believes he's a real person, but wasn't 100% sure. Does the name Charlie James ring a bell for anyone here?

I think he's made up. No Charlie James is listed in Lord's discography. It wouldn't have been a pseudonym on a poster.

MG

Thanks for the reply. I guess that person, as you stated is made up.

[EKE BBB]

No mention of a Charlie James in the Big Bands Database Plus either.

[jazztrain]

I remember a third baseman for the Cardinals named Charlie James.

He was traded for Roger Maris.

I believe that the third baseman for the Cardinals in the Roger Maris trade was Charlie Smith, not Charlie James.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I remember a third baseman for the Cardinals named Charlie James.

He was traded for Roger Maris.

I believe that the third baseman for the Cardinals in the Roger Maris trade was Charlie Smith, not Charlie James.

I thought the Cardinals was a doo wop group...

MG

[GA Russell]

I remember a third baseman for the Cardinals named Charlie James.

He was traded for Roger Maris.

I believe that the third baseman for the Cardinals in the Roger Maris trade was Charlie Smith, not Charlie James.

Jazztrain, I think you're right. I'm losing my mind!

Was there a football player named Charlie James? A running back for the Redskins or a quarterback for the Cardinals?

Edit: I'm pretty sure that the Cardinals QB was Charlie Johnson.

Now I'm wondering if the Redskins halfback was Dick James. I'm thinking in the early 60s timeframe.

Edited December 13, 2005 by GA Russell

[JSngry]

Charlie Johnson, the quarterback, was famous for being "smart", as in being a scholar and having a high IQ.

[jazztrain]

I remember a third baseman for the Cardinals named Charlie James.

He was traded for Roger Maris.

I believe that the third baseman for the Cardinals in the Roger Maris trade was Charlie Smith, not Charlie James.

Jazztrain, I think you're right. I'm losing my mind!

Was there a football player named Charlie James? A running back for the Redskins or a quarterback for the Cardinals?

Edit: I'm pretty sure that the Cardinals QB was Charlie Johnson.

Now I'm wondering if the Redskins halfback was Dick James. I'm thinking in the early 60s timeframe.

GA: Not sure about Charlie James, but there was a drummer by the name of Charlie Smith who appears on a variety of records on labels like Bethlehem and Dawn. I think I have a re-issue of a Dawn LP with a group led by Aaron Sachs on one side and a group led by Charlie Smith on the other.

Charlie Johnson is, of course, a name steeped in jazz history. There was one Charlie Johnson (a pianist) who led a great band (Charlie Johnson and His Paradise Orchestra) that recorded for Victor in the 1920s. If memory serves, there was a clarinetist/saxophonist of the same same who played and recorded with Tiny Parham and his Musicians, also for Victor, at about the same time.

Okay, you got me curious. Turns out there was a major league baseball player named Charlie James and he played for the Cardinals in the early 1960s. But he was an outfielder, not a third baseman. The Cardinals traded him as well, in 1964, along with Roger Craig to the Reds in return for pitcher Bob Purkey. All these names from my younger days!

Also, it turns out that Charlie Johnson was a quarterback for the St. Louis (football) Cardinals for much of the 1960s.

[Free For All]

I thought the Cardinals was a doo wop group...

[Chuck Nessa]

Also, it turns out that Charlie Johnson was a quarterback for the St. Louis (football) Cardinals for much of the 1960s.

Now we have come full circle - Charlie Johnson led a big band in Harlem.

[JSngry]

Maris was indeed traded for Charlie Smith (who had come to the Cards from the Mets in a trade for Ken Boyer). Mike Shannon moved in as the regular third basemen for the Cards (and later into the Cards broadcasting booth, where he drinks to this day afaik ), which made the 1967 Cards infield Shannon, Dal Maxvill, Julain Javier, & Orlando Cepeda. Not a bad bunch.

[GA Russell]

The Cardinals traded him as well, in 1964, along with Roger Craig to the Reds in return for pitcher Bob Purkey.

I once spoke with Bob Purkey on the phone! I was a salesman working my way through school at the time, in Pittsburgh, and I called an insurance agency. It turned out that he was the head honcho there.

I asked him about the following story, which I think I read in Baseball Digest:

The story goes that Bill Rigney, the Giants manager, was tired of Purkey throwing at Willie Mays. So he said that the next time they play the Reds and face Purkey, he's going to bring Mays in from the outfield and have him pitch to Purkey. The Commisioner, probably Ford Frick, immediately put in a rule, that I believe still exists to this day, that no one may pitch unless he is designated to be a pitcher on the roster. (Various publicity stunts have had I think Cesar Tovar and Jose Canseco and others pitch; and I believe that the Commissioner's office has always been informed in advance of the intention to use them on the mound.)

Anyway, I mentioned this to Purkey, and right away he denied ever throwing at anybody, and he was very forceful about it. Since he was a favorite of mine when I was a boy, I believed him, sort of!

[jazztrain]

The Cardinals traded him as well, in 1964, along with Roger Craig to the Reds in return for pitcher Bob Purkey.

I once spoke with Bob Purkey on the phone! I was a salesman working my way through school at the time, in Pittsburgh, and I called an insurance agency. It turned out that he was the head honcho there.

I asked him about the following story, which I think I read in Baseball Digest:

The story goes that Bill Rigney, the Giants manager, was tired of Purkey throwing at Willie Mays. So he said that the next time they play the Reds and face Purkey, he's going to bring Mays in from the outfield and have him pitch to Purkey. The Commisioner, probably Ford Frick, immediately put in a rule, that I believe still exists to this day, that no one may pitch unless he is designated to be a pitcher on the roster. (Various publicity stunts have had I think Cesar Tovar and Jose Canseco and others pitch; and I believe that the Commissioner's office has always been informed in advance of the intention to use them on the mound.)

Anyway, I mentioned this to Purkey, and right away he denied ever throwing at anybody, and he was very forceful about it. Since he was a favorite of mine when I was a boy, I believed him, sort of!

GA:

I don't believe there is any such rule, at least in the major leagues. It's not that unusual to have a "non-pitcher" come in to pitch for an inning or two late in a game if a game gets way out of hand. This allows a manager to preserve his staff in a game that's essentially already lost.

However, there does seem to be some basis for the impression that Purkey may have had a reputation for throwing at Mays. Here's an excerpt from an article by Earl Lawson that appeared in the Cincinnati Post on March 18, 1997:

Purkey was the first Red to make a strong bid for the Cy Young Award. It happened in 1962 when he went 23-5. That same season, Jack Sanford of the San Francisco Giants was 24-7 and Don Drysdale of the Los Angeles Dodgers was 25-9.

The award went to Drysdale.

It was Purkey's pitch variety, not his blazing speed, which dazzled batters. Still, no pitcher was prouder of his fastball.

''What people don't realize,'' Purkey said, ''is that I've got one of the best fastballs in the league. Other pitchers may throw theirs with better velocity, but I'll bet there isn't a pitcher in the league who jams Willie Mays more than I do.''

Admittedly there may be a fine distinction between "jamming" and "throwing at" but one thinks that Bob Purkey may have protested a bit more than necessary, especially if one assumes that he was quoted accurately by Lawson.